JaimeAdams
2500 Club Member
One thing that I think some people may be missing is that they do not only live on the monti. It is their food source, but they also move around in a tank. So just dipping a monti a few times may not truly eliminate them.
Heibel
Active Member
I just saw some on my glass and have now noticed them elsewhere. I have some spongodes on a large rock, suggestions as to deal with that? Have many others that are on smaller pieces so I assume just dip them like the rest as well.
Reef Jeff
Active Member
This is a MEN. I’ve been battling them for some time and seem to have won as well. At first siphoning them off twice daily and then got a Melanurus Wrasse. Haven’t found one in weeks. Used to find 2-10 per day. Monti’s continue to grow with no signs of MEN damage.
MENs like to lay their eggs on the edges and undersides. I had a shortlived nudi problem that I resolved by snipping off the edges of the affected coral and covering the entire underside with epoxy. Dips didnt help me in the slightest. Never saw another nudi since and that was two years ago.
I have had the displeasure of fighting these a few times over the years. I have another case on the go at the moment. The biggest issue with these is that you need to be able to dip affected corals, so that means chipping off all montis that are not on plugs.
For my latest case, I have tried a different approach. I am using KZ Flat Worm Stop and Coral Booster dosed daily. This has made a noticeable difference. Monti caps that previously would get consumed now seem to be able to grow quickly enough to keep pace with the nudis. The nudis are still there, but they rarely ever eat their way to the top surface of the coral and instead are on the bottom at the tissue edge. This might make you think that they are gone, sadly no, just not able to inflict enough damage to overwhelm the monti. This is a worthwhile improvement as it gives time to try other techniques of eradicating the nudis.
I also added some wrasses (6 line, scarlet) and peppermint shrimps. The wrasses will eat the montis during the day if they are out, ditto for the shrimp during the night. Again, not a solution on their own, but part of a treatment regime.
Lastly I created a dipping station that is comprised of a 2 gallon jar that I had on hand and was planning to use for a nano tank. The jar contains a small heater, a Tunze 6040 and is illuminated with a Kessil A80. I have the jar plumbed so that all the waste (tank) water pumped from a dual headed Stenner goes into the jar, and then a stand pipe on the jar overflows to the drain. I add my chosen dip to the jar, turn on the 6040 and then place the frags into the jar for the desired time period. To help dislodge the nudis, I hold the frags in the output stream of the 6040 rotating them to and fro. The first time I did this, I thought I had made a tragic mistake as the monti cap I was dipping looked like it was loosing its flesh from along the edge. I though the Tunze output might have been too strong, however I quickly realized that the flesh being blow away was a whole string of nudis that looked like a lace fringe coming off the underside. I had observed 1 adult nudi on the cap, but was surprised to find there were dozens. When the dip is done, I simply return the frags to the tank (after do a cleaning dip in tank water) and do a small water change to flush out the used water. This makes it much easier to dip every 3 days, which is what you need to do to get ahead of the breeding cycle.
Dennis
For my latest case, I have tried a different approach. I am using KZ Flat Worm Stop and Coral Booster dosed daily. This has made a noticeable difference. Monti caps that previously would get consumed now seem to be able to grow quickly enough to keep pace with the nudis. The nudis are still there, but they rarely ever eat their way to the top surface of the coral and instead are on the bottom at the tissue edge. This might make you think that they are gone, sadly no, just not able to inflict enough damage to overwhelm the monti. This is a worthwhile improvement as it gives time to try other techniques of eradicating the nudis.
I also added some wrasses (6 line, scarlet) and peppermint shrimps. The wrasses will eat the montis during the day if they are out, ditto for the shrimp during the night. Again, not a solution on their own, but part of a treatment regime.
Lastly I created a dipping station that is comprised of a 2 gallon jar that I had on hand and was planning to use for a nano tank. The jar contains a small heater, a Tunze 6040 and is illuminated with a Kessil A80. I have the jar plumbed so that all the waste (tank) water pumped from a dual headed Stenner goes into the jar, and then a stand pipe on the jar overflows to the drain. I add my chosen dip to the jar, turn on the 6040 and then place the frags into the jar for the desired time period. To help dislodge the nudis, I hold the frags in the output stream of the 6040 rotating them to and fro. The first time I did this, I thought I had made a tragic mistake as the monti cap I was dipping looked like it was loosing its flesh from along the edge. I though the Tunze output might have been too strong, however I quickly realized that the flesh being blow away was a whole string of nudis that looked like a lace fringe coming off the underside. I had observed 1 adult nudi on the cap, but was surprised to find there were dozens. When the dip is done, I simply return the frags to the tank (after do a cleaning dip in tank water) and do a small water change to flush out the used water. This makes it much easier to dip every 3 days, which is what you need to do to get ahead of the breeding cycle.
Dennis
Heibel
Active Member
Pic shows what I am dealing with. Found 12 after just checking 5 frags. I am thinking to start a small tank just for moving all my montis into, to make dipping easier. Also thinking of putting a Yellow Coris in main tank.
Jlentz
Active Member
It’s horrifying to see how many there really are once you do dip.
That’s a cool setup. I’m going to have to think about doing that with my DOS for a dip/qt setup.
Jlentz
Active Member
Pic shows what I am dealing with. Found 12 after just checking 5 frags. I am thinking to start a small tank just for moving all my montis into, to make dipping easier. Also thinking of putting a Yellow Coris in main tank.
Yellow coris helped me a bit. Mostly though I think it just kept the population suppressed. I’d suspect a 6 line would be better at killing nudis.
Daniel Troconis
Community Member
1 month after removing all my infested Red Cap Montipora and I have found 1 every 2 weeks, plan on getting based on all advise on this post Six line wrasse and scraping all other frag plugs with other species. They are a pest very similar to Bed bugs as noted. However there must be a good cure still to be found!
Daniel Troconis
Community Member
Nudibranchs also starting to eat other of my corals (stoney) sps I don't have the name for these but they have Red/Orange polyps. JUst took them out and set them in the Quarentine tank for observation.
Cleaned them
Reaplied glue over base
changed the plugs
NO DIP yet
Cleaned them
Reaplied glue over base
changed the plugs
NO DIP yet
Nudibranchs also starting to eat other of my corals (stoney) sps I don't have the name for these but they have Red/Orange polyps. JUst took them out and set them in the Quarentine tank for observation.
Cleaned them
Reaplied glue over base
changed the plugs
NO DIP yet
Those corals appear to be Montipora Digitata, also susceptible to nudis. I would suggest dipping the affected frags. Most likely all monti's in the tank are now/or will be affected. The nudis are very hard to eliminate, but very easy to control. This coral and the one you discarded should be saveable with a dipping regime and the addition of some predators. I suggest Yellow Coris Wrasses and 6 Line wrasses. Peppermint shrimp can also be helpful for the hours when the wrasses are sleeping (and the nudis are awake).
Dennis
Here is an update on the nudi battle, along with a recipe that seems to work well.
My frag tank still has nudi's, I just used a flashlight to examine some caps, definitely nudis. Damage to corals is non-existent to negligible though. When there is damage, they seem to take hold on a frag (especially monti caps) and then the control measures move in and the damage stops and the frag starts to regenerate. The minimization of damage is so good, that I had assumed there were few nudi's still present, and was about to say as much in this post, but a quick check with the flashlight dispelled this idea.
So what is the key to preventing the nudi's from getting the upper hand? In my tank, the presence of a yellow coris wrasse seems to be the turning point. When my YCW jumped out and the tank was lacking one, the nudis started to triumph over the controls. When I replaced the YCW, the damage stopped and the nudis were again being kept in check. I was speaking to a local LFS owner today and he mentioned that he puts 4 YCW in every coral propagation tank for this exact purpose.
The other biological control that appears to be key is peppermint shrimp. They are on constant patrol all night long and they do eat nudis. My frag tank is down to 1 peppermint currently, so I plan to restock 4 more.
Finally, if you are at the point where dipping is required (where most people are at the beginning when they just realize they have nudis), if you can arrange either a small powerhead or small pump in the dipping container, it makes nudi removal much easier. Rotating the frag in a jet of dip water will blow off most nudis in short order. The dips do not kill the nudis, but cause them to let go. So giving them a helping hand off the frag greatly improves the dips effectiveness. This of course requires a larger dip container (and more dip) than a lot of people use, but it does really make a difference for nudi removal. I use a Tunze 6040 turned way down, but any micro pump should do.
I will probably go monti free in my frag tank at some point, just to starve out the nudis. Before that can play out though, I need to clean and migrate out a frag of each monti to a quarantine tank. Once I have a nudi free monti pool, I will be much more careful in the future. I am setting up a Evo 13.5 for quarantine of incoming frags to assist with staying pest free.
Dennis
My frag tank still has nudi's, I just used a flashlight to examine some caps, definitely nudis. Damage to corals is non-existent to negligible though. When there is damage, they seem to take hold on a frag (especially monti caps) and then the control measures move in and the damage stops and the frag starts to regenerate. The minimization of damage is so good, that I had assumed there were few nudi's still present, and was about to say as much in this post, but a quick check with the flashlight dispelled this idea.
So what is the key to preventing the nudi's from getting the upper hand? In my tank, the presence of a yellow coris wrasse seems to be the turning point. When my YCW jumped out and the tank was lacking one, the nudis started to triumph over the controls. When I replaced the YCW, the damage stopped and the nudis were again being kept in check. I was speaking to a local LFS owner today and he mentioned that he puts 4 YCW in every coral propagation tank for this exact purpose.
The other biological control that appears to be key is peppermint shrimp. They are on constant patrol all night long and they do eat nudis. My frag tank is down to 1 peppermint currently, so I plan to restock 4 more.
Finally, if you are at the point where dipping is required (where most people are at the beginning when they just realize they have nudis), if you can arrange either a small powerhead or small pump in the dipping container, it makes nudi removal much easier. Rotating the frag in a jet of dip water will blow off most nudis in short order. The dips do not kill the nudis, but cause them to let go. So giving them a helping hand off the frag greatly improves the dips effectiveness. This of course requires a larger dip container (and more dip) than a lot of people use, but it does really make a difference for nudi removal. I use a Tunze 6040 turned way down, but any micro pump should do.
I will probably go monti free in my frag tank at some point, just to starve out the nudis. Before that can play out though, I need to clean and migrate out a frag of each monti to a quarantine tank. Once I have a nudi free monti pool, I will be much more careful in the future. I am setting up a Evo 13.5 for quarantine of incoming frags to assist with staying pest free.
Dennis
mitch91175
2500 Club Member
Heck you don't want MEN in the tank really just introduce a bunch of wrasse. They will make quick work of the easily spotted MEN and hunt for the rest. Plus an added benefit of controlling a lot of pest that you do not see.
When I was posting some photos in my build thread of my frag tank (the tank with MEN), I thought the readers of this thread might find it interesting. The monti's in this tank show no damage from the MEN, though they are still present. Note, the palawanensis recession was from a pathogenic bacterial problem I was having. The bacterial issue is resolved and they are again healthy.
You can see the photos here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...never-ending-build.465206/page-6#post-5238576
I am always surprised that upon close inspection, there are still MEN visible at night.
Dennis
You can see the photos here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...never-ending-build.465206/page-6#post-5238576
I am always surprised that upon close inspection, there are still MEN visible at night.
Dennis
peppermint shrimp eat nudibranchs for sure though?
Leonard
Valuable Member
Necro'ing this old thread.
Does anyone know if MENS has been known to eat other corals besides Montis and Anacropora? I inadvertently introduced some because I didn't QT, and I'm unable to remove colonies to dip because they're fully encrusted on my main aquascape. However, I really don't mind if all my Montis die. I'm just worried these nudis will go after my other corals.
Also, once my tank is free of host Monitpora colonies, how long do I have to wait before the MENS die out so I can reintroduce Montis?
Does anyone know if MENS has been known to eat other corals besides Montis and Anacropora? I inadvertently introduced some because I didn't QT, and I'm unable to remove colonies to dip because they're fully encrusted on my main aquascape. However, I really don't mind if all my Montis die. I'm just worried these nudis will go after my other corals.
Also, once my tank is free of host Monitpora colonies, how long do I have to wait before the MENS die out so I can reintroduce Montis?
Just Montis; be careful though because if you plan on taking the montis out there is always those small pieces that encrust to rocks you can't see and it extends the life cycle.
Leonard
Valuable Member
Thanks. I guess I'll just go without Montis. Funny thing is I was trying to figure out how to control my crazy Monti growth prior to this MENS infestation. Montis are pretty but they sure can take over a tank.
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