Multiple Randalls shrimps ?

[Schulks]

I am considering a high fin goby and randalls pair for my new AIO. Since they are so small I'd like 2 shrimps.

Would ordering 2 and crossing my fingers be a good idea?

 

[Stomatopods17]

Wouldn't recommend.

Some pistols are communal but I never heard of randalls being one of them, typically goby pistols only work if you can get a mated pair, and trying it yourself probably would only work naturally in a large setup where one finds the other on its own terms peacefully rather than dropping in, assuming you can sex them.

 

[Schulks]

I could always end up with a pair though. I am hoping to find someone who knows if it will work if the sexes are right or if they will still most likely kill each other.

How many shrimp do people go through when trying to find a pair?

 

[Rusty_L_Shackleford]

I could always end up with a pair though. I am hoping to find someone who knows if it will work if the sexes are right or if they will still most likely kill each other.

How many shrimp do people go through when trying to find a pair?

Honestly, talk to your lfs if you have a good one. Mine ocassionally gets some shrimp gobies in that are paired or that pair in the store.

 

[Stomatopods17]

I don't think anyone has tried it strictly off of how they are collected.

With randals they never catch them paired, its always individual shrimp or shrimp+goby. Its unknown if they actually would pair, or if they would simply pick a point in their life, search for a mate, have a good time, and then get kicked out back to their original homes (hence my 'peaceful terms' suggestion where they find each other rather than forced together). Whether aggression would take place would depend on space between burrows when they return I'd imagine, otherwise you could have a snap war.

The only pistols I've seen communally kept were tiger pistols, although very few cases of that have been confirmed, and green pistols, which aren't goby shrimp but I have seen personally co-exist sharing burrow space in a large retail tank where the lfs probably just dropped 10 of them in.

There's a rare colonial species that operates like bees/ants that can hitchhike, even having a queen of sorts, so they all coexist there.

There is definitely a lot of variations with pistols and how they interact with each other. I would think randals would have been collected as a pair or attempted as a pair by now but I haven't seen evidence of it yet.

 

[Schulks]

There's a rare colonial species that operates like bees/ants that can hitchhike, even having a queen of sorts, so they all coexist there.

That sounds pretty cool. a colony of shrimps lol

I read a lot of posts here saying they have 2 shrimps and 1 goby in 1 burrow. I need to read on randalls shrimp mating behavior. They could only pair up for a short time and need to separate.
My LFS keeps the pistols all in one tank but I think they sell them in a couple weeks then reorder a bunch more. Sadly, they only stock tigers too.

 

[Schulks]

they are indeed monogamous. I might try it once at least, maybe im the lucky one.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

It's absolutely worth a shot.

They are monogamous and will share a burrow - and not just for the mating season, but permanently (and most Alpheus spp. are this way - see the links at the bottom). I would assume they have two separate sexes (i.e. that they aren't hermaphroditic), but I don't know for sure. Additionally, I'm not sure how to sex the shrimp, but I've heard it's quite difficult to do without taking the shrimp out of the water.

If you're careful with the pairings, you can get two gobies and two shrimp living and breeding in the same burrow:

"When the sexual maturity is reached, normally a pair male-female of gobies shares the same burrow together with a pair of shrimps."
(Quote from the reefs.com article linked below.)

A quick note here on pistol shrimp diet - pistol shrimp do not seem to be predatory, rather they seem to be more opportunistic, omnivorous scavengers (the only "hunting" that seems to take place outside of the burrow is done by the gobies, not the shrimp, and - to my knowledge - no one has ever confirmed if the shrimp actually eat the "prey" brought to them by the gobies; it might be that the goby eats them rather than the shrimp, or the shrimp might eat them as people generally assume):

Goby and shrimp associations: more than meets the eye - Coral Reefs

link.springer.com

For examples of the shrimp and goby pairings (both in and out of aquariums), see these links:

https://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/nftt/index.php

Aquarium Fish: Sharing a small house without conflicts: the pistol shrimp and the shrimpgoby’s life

Coral Reefs, thousand of species, thousand of associations: but the relationship between little gobies and their shrimp partners is one of the most famous and better balanced, where everybody wins and nobody loses. A wonderful example of mutualistic symbiosis.

reefs.com

UWL Website

Breeding and Heterosexual Pairing in the Snapping Shrimp Alpheus estuariensis (Caridea: Alpheidae) in a Tropical Bay in Northeastern Brazil

Abstract. We investigated aspects of the breeding biology, including the reproductive period, egg production, and heterosexual pairing of the snapping shri

academic.oup.com

 

[Schulks]

Hey @ISpeakForTheSeas thank you for the links and input!

I have a nice healthy Stonogobiops nematodes that is about 2 inches and is half way through QT. I got him this size so it is discernably male and now I will try to find one about 1.25" or less so it is hopefully still female and can pair up more readily. Is there anything else I should be aware of?

I am struggling to find Alpheus Randalli shrimp but when I do is there a good way to find a pair? I assume I will just have to purchase 2 and cross my fingers.

Thanks,
Cory

 

[paragrouper]

Hey @ISpeakForTheSeas thank you for the links and input!

I have a nice healthy Stonogobiops nematodes that is about 2 inches and is half way through QT. I got him this size so it is discernably male and now I will try to find one about 1.25" or less so it is hopefully still female and can pair up more readily. Is there anything else I should be aware of?

I am struggling to find Alpheus Randalli shrimp but when I do is there a good way to find a pair? I assume I will just have to purchase 2 and cross my fingers.

Thanks,
Cory

Alyssa’s Seahorse Savvy Carrie’s them from time to time. I suggest you contact them and see what they can do to Help. I’ve found them to be pretty responsive

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

Hey @ISpeakForTheSeas thank you for the links and input!

I have a nice healthy Stonogobiops nematodes that is about 2 inches and is half way through QT. I got him this size so it is discernably male and now I will try to find one about 1.25" or less so it is hopefully still female and can pair up more readily. Is there anything else I should be aware of?

I am struggling to find Alpheus Randalli shrimp but when I do is there a good way to find a pair? I assume I will just have to purchase 2 and cross my fingers.

Thanks,
Cory

I can't find the paper where it was discussed, but I remember reading through where someone tested four different methods for introducing/pairing broodstock. 3 of the 4 were pretty effective for getting them to pair while the fourth had frequent aggression.

I only remember two methods off-hand: one method was just dropping them into the same tank; the other was putting them in breeder boxes (or breeder box like setups) where they could see each other and sense the chemicals in the water from each other but not actually interact with each other physically. Dropping them in is the one that often resulted in aggression, so I wouldn't recommend that. I'd introduce them through the breeder box method. In theory, you should be able to tell if they're aggressive/calm and if they're bonded or not within a few days/weeks. (That said, these methods may be more effective on fish that do more swimming and less sitting in a burrow; I'm not sure, but I'd be curious to find out.)

With the shrimp, you can theoretically sex them (though you may need some magnification help - see the quote below) and introduce them to hopefully pair the same way as the fish; but if you're unable to sex them, then you'd basically just get two and skip to the introductions.

How to sex the shrimp according to Bob Fenner (I know this method holds true for Synalpheus spp., but I can't find any verification that it works for Alpheus spp. as well):

"Very hard to distinguish sexes externally... Females are characterized by gonopores with U-shaped slits on the coxae of the third pereopods (first walking legs) while males have oval gonopore openings on the coxae of the fifth pereopods (third or last walking legs"*

*Source:

FAQs about Pistol (including Goby) Shrimps, Reproduction/Culture

 

[Schulks]

I only remember two methods off-hand: one method was just dropping them into the same tank; the other was putting them in breeder boxes (or breeder box like setups) where they could see each other and sense the chemicals in the water from each other but not actually interact with each other physically. Dropping them in is the one that often resulted in aggression, so I wouldn't recommend that. I'd introduce them through the breeder box method. In theory, you should be able to tell if they're aggressive/calm and if they're bonded or not within a few days/weeks. (That said, these methods may be more effective on fish that do more swimming and less sitting in a burrow; I'm not sure, but I'd be curious to find out.)

Ok! As you saw I have one randalls shrimp but my budget is tight and I will need some time to find another locally. So I am releasing this one out of the breeder box.

I picked up another Hi Fin Gobie that is about 1" today. He is much much smaller than my other Hi Fin who looks about 2". Once I have treated them and have them eating well I will move to pairing.

I am going to release the larger one into the display and then a few days later add the smaller Hi Fin to the breeder box and watch their behavior. Wish me luck!

Bonus pic of larger Hi fin gobie

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

How did this turn out for you?

 

[Schulks]

Sorry for the late response but I am ashamed to say my royal gramma bullied the Hi Fin and I had to remove him because he was easy to catch while being bullied.
I also haven't seen the randalls shrimp since he was released but I think I heard him snap about a couple month ago.
Thanks for trying with me though. :')

I might try again but stick with just Hi Fins and Randalls. Aquarium is really well established now and I have a lot more time under my belt now.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I have two Randall's shrimps - I never rarely ever see either but hear the snaps a few times a week and see burrows on opposite ends of the tank. One is paired with a Randall's Goby - the other lone.

 

[SFREEF3R]

I added a second Randall’s Pistol Shrimp and they ended up taking up residence with my existing shrimp and yellow watchman goby pair. I don’t know if I just got lucky with the sexes or if this is typical or not. They lived together for maybe a year until one died.

 

[Schulks]

I added a second Randall’s Pistol Shrimp and they ended up taking up residence with my existing shrimp and yellow watchman goby pair. I don’t know if I just got lucky with the sexes or if this is typical or not. They lived together for maybe a year until one died.

That's pretty cool! These shrimps are so resilient. I lost my first one and found him almost a year later in an AIO rear chamber and he was so big. I purchased another one to pair at some point and then never saw it again.

Well, a month ago I moved that aquarium and guess what I found... that 2nd tiny randalls.. he is still quite small. I'm not sure if he was hiding from the big one back there but he was moved to the display and I haven't seen him since again.. lol
I always see the big one poking out of holes.

 

[Stomatopods17]

I added a second Randall’s Pistol Shrimp and they ended up taking up residence with my existing shrimp and yellow watchman goby pair. I don’t know if I just got lucky with the sexes or if this is typical or not. They lived together for maybe a year until one died.

What i find more intriguing is the alternate dominate arms for pistols.

One is a left and the other is a right.

Its extremely rare but they can have two pistol arms, but it makes me wonder what genetically dictates which arm becomes the pistol and which one doesn't, or even if they lost both arms if its a 50-50 which regrows into a pistol or always the same arm.

 

[MaximaLover!]

I’m going to add to this because I have been considering attempting to raise the Randal’s pistol shrimp fry with my rotifer L strain. I have a bunch of mating pairs of fish and inverts and I added two very small .5 inch Randal’s pistol shrimps to help my yasha gobys feel more comfortable. They immediately paired up and they share the same tunnel and daily chores but a few days before the female releases the fry she is a lot more shy. They release fry monthly just like skunk and blood cleaner shrimp pairs do and I personally frequently pair up blood and skunk cleaner shrimp in each of my reef tanks for the free natural coral food the fry becomes. I believe the Randal’s pistol shrimp when young can sort out who’s going to be the male and female just like the skunk and blood cleaner shrimp do.

 

[ThisIsTheWay]

This has been an incredibly informative thread. I hadn't event thought to pair up pistol shrimp, but now that I know it can be done I guess I'll have to add it to my wishlist :P

@MaximaLover! keep us posted, I love seeing people's attempts and successes with aquaculturing.