My second Red Sea Reefer seam failure.

[saltienewb]

Same here. My 3rd replacement is coming today. Last time is the was the FULL setup free. This time, JUST the tank. The first non G2+ last 4 years. This current one..a year. To upgrade to G3+ they wanted almost $2k. I'm leaving it wrapped and selling if I can find a taker. Looking at another company's acrylic cause I can't take more deaths from transfer this is causing. Not to mention the leak.

How much did they offer towards an upgrade?
My 300xl is failing and I’d like to get the 425 since it’s eurobraced

 

[Ziggy17]

From what I've been able to gather it's their larger tanks that have the problem, anything 50g and under is probably fine. It seems like they don't properly brace larger tanks which leads to the seem failures on their bigger systems. There's a limit to how much weight Silicone can hold indefinitely separate from it's ability to seal against water pressure. If I had to guess what's happening is that their larger tanks are relying on the silicone to hold the glass together against the water weight and it's slowly being pushed apart over a period of years and that's why they fail, the silicone is being slowly stretched past it's breaking point as it does degrade over time.

In a smaller tank you don't notice because the pressure is low enough that you're unlikely to ever reach breaking point over the lifetime of the tank, but bigger ones are subjecting the seal to never ending pressure that it can't take and fails within a noticeable period.

Absolutely Incorrect.

 

[JumboShrimp]

@Ziggy17 , is the white light showing from where silicone is pulling away? I'm trying to interpret the photo.

 

[Ziggy17]

@Ziggy17 , is the white light showing from where silicone is pulling away? I'm trying to interpret the photo.

That’s the issue. You can see the separation happening.

 

[californiarob]

My recent Red Sea 425XL failure, I see alot of these posts where the seams split from the front floating panel near the top, after reading a spreadsheet on HumbleFish, my opinion is inferior silicone, the water pressure is low at the top but the lights will cause oxidation to the silicone. And after seeing the thread on R2R

Red Sea Reefer Seams (not another statistic?)​

see @UncommonSense reply regarding removing the silicone in a RS tank and a old tank comparison.

The RS G3 tanks with the extra glass support at the top will not solve this issue if RS is still using the same silicone.. In my opinion the RS tanks are a ticking timebomb of mass destruction to your livestock, house and pocket book.

 

[UncommonSense]

my opinion is inferior silicone, the water pressure is low at the top but the lights will cause oxidation to the silicone.

I concur that the silicone itself is questionable, though there’s more to it than water pressure, and oxidation isn’t caused by UV damage!

Primarily, the silicone is the issue, but the reason we see seams peeling from the top-down, and from the bottom center is actually from the glass bowing, and exacerbating the silicone issue!

— the vast majority of these tanks are fully rimless; no eurobrace, or center brace to prevent the center of the long glass viewing pane from bowing… this inherently puts higher stress on the top corners, and bottom center of the silicone seams…

— to add to my prior comment, I’ve discovered that the thicker long pane glass from that G1 R425XL is actually 11.75mm (.462”) thick, not 12mm (.472”) thick!

— A G2 R450 (5ft long) I have around has a 15mm (.591”) front/rear pane, and 12mm (.472”) side panes… that was not enough, and it’s also peeling from the top down in both front corners…

— it’s also worth noting that the rear pane of these tanks is actually less likely to fail from the center of the bottom seam (vs. the front viewing pane) simply because the glass overflow box serves as a pair of “gussets”, connecting bottom pane to rear pane in the center of the span!

 

[kynan]

Justtt following on. One thing nobody attends to in these discussions is how often people are in these non euro braced tanks and putting downward pressure on the panels. That, coupled with bad silicone can be exacerbating failure rates, especially if they were unaware of the smallest silicone compromise.

 

[californiarob]

I concur that the silicone itself is questionable, though there’s more to it than water pressure, and oxidation isn’t caused by UV damage!

Primarily, the silicone is the issue, but the reason we see seams peeling from the top-down, and from the bottom center is actually from the glass bowing, and exacerbating the silicone issue!

— the vast majority of these tanks are fully rimless; no eurobrace, or center brace to prevent the center of the long glass viewing pane from bowing… this inherently puts higher stress on the top corners, and bottom center of the silicone seams…

— to add to my prior comment, I’ve discovered that the thicker long pane glass from that G1 R425XL is actually 11.75mm (.462”) thick, not 12mm (.472”) thick!

— A G2 R450 (5ft long) I have around has a 15mm (.591”) front/rear pane, and 12mm (.472”) side panes… that was not enough, and it’s also peeling from the top down in both front corners…

— it’s also worth noting that the rear pane of these tanks is actually less likely to fail from the center of the bottom seam (vs. the front viewing pane) simply because the glass overflow box serves as a pair of “gussets”, connecting bottom pane to rear pane in the center of the span!

I disagree with your statement on oxidation and UV, ever see anything plastic thats outside in the UV sunlight...

Silicone Polymer (Rubber/Sealant) Oxidation

• Degradation: Silicone sealants and rubbers degrade due to oxidation, often accelerated by UV light and high temperatures ..........Hope this helps

 

[Malum Argenteum]

Any idea how RS builds tanks so that UV passes through the black sealant from above and behind the front seals, and through the ~1/2" glass from the front?

I am curious what the UVI of reef lights is in general. Anyone ever measured that, to compare to "outside in the UV sunlight"? My guess is that it is negligible, and below the limit of hobby measurement at the top of the front panel in the four photos above.

 

[californiarob]

Not an expert here, but any plactic or rubber that is in water with UV breaks down and gets hard and looses it elasticity, which can be the case with the type of silicone RS is using.
I inspected the RS tank that failed and the other glass tanks I have, the RS tanks silicone is very hard and ridgid especially on the inside of ther tank, while my other glass tanks which some I have had for decades the silicone is still rubbery, I used a pocket screwdriver and did a push test.

1. Oxidation & Aging: Exposure to oxygen, heat, and UV light creates free radicals, forming new, rigid cross-links between polymer chains, reducing flexibility.

 

[Malum Argenteum]

Are those numbered bullet points cut and pasted from an "AI" answer?

 

[areefer01]

My recent Red Sea 425XL failure, I see alot of these posts where the seams split from the front floating panel near the top, after reading a spreadsheet on HumbleFish, my opinion is inferior silicone, the water pressure is low at the top but the lights will cause oxidation to the silicone. And after seeing the thread on R2R

Red Sea Reefer Seams (not another statistic?)​

see @UncommonSense reply regarding removing the silicone in a RS tank and a old tank comparison.

The RS G3 tanks with the extra glass support at the top will not solve this issue if RS is still using the same silicone.. In my opinion the RS tanks are a ticking timebomb of mass destruction to your livestock, house and pocket book.

The bottom left image - the angle it is taken makes it look like it is over / too large for the stand. Is the tank actually not flush or is it just the way the photo was taken.

 

[californiarob]

The bottom left image - the angle it is taken makes it look like it is over / too large for the stand. Is the tank actually not flush or is it just the way the photo was taken.

Yes.. the front pain of glass is floating, RS and other manufacturers make their tanks like this, the new G3 RS tanks now have Euro Bracing on the top of the tanks, I dont belive this will solve the issue as there are plenty of RS tanks leaking from the bottom seals and top seals and still believe its the silicone.

 

[areefer01]

Yes.. the front pain of glass is floating, RS and other manufacturers make their tanks like this, the new G3 RS tanks now have Euro Bracing on the top of the tanks, I dont belive this will solve the issue as there are plenty of RS tanks leaking from the bottom seals and top seals and still believe its the silicone.

Thank you for the reply. Appreciate it as I didn't want to assume. I know there is another thread around here with a similar discussion on the tank overhang although it is 12 gallons.

 

[Dom]

To quote White Snake, “Here we go again on my own”……. So just cleaning the glass and noticed the unmistakable rectangle box occurring on the middle bottom seam. This was the G2+ replacement they sent me less than a year ago to replace the seam failure I had on the 2 year old G1. Thank goodness I’ve got the new WB 150 up and running, just waiting to transfer fish and coral over in the next few days. I was originally going to wait a few weeks to move the coral over, but this moves up my schedule.

I’ll reach out to Red Sea and go through the warranty process again.

I can change my signature to “double Red Sea seam failure survivor” now….

One more musical reference. “Tick tick boom”. Well hopefully not

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me".