Mysterious deaths

[C4ctus99]

Well I found the problem...

For a recap I have a 1500 gallon + system made up of two large tanks. A 450G mixed reef upstairs and a 750G FOWLR in the basement. The sump, quarantine and frag tanks are also in the sump room. The 750 has one plank feeding pellets and the plank sits right on the tank, no problems there. The 450G is feed by the plank dosing into the sump right in front of the return intake. This necessitates a long piece of PVC on the plank, approximately 10".

one day while cleaning I noticed that there was food coming out of the top of the plank PVC. I took it apart and discovered the entire tube was full of ROTTING, nasty food. It was black and stinky. I cleaned it out and did about 2000G of water changes over the next couple of days. The pump at the bottom was operational. I could find no explanation what went wrong.

I thought it would be a good idea to reinstall without the pump as the PVC dumps into the sump and there is a good amount of suction pulling the food into the return. Everything was fine for a while but I had to leave on a business trip for 10 days. I get back and there are several more dead fish and once again the full PVC is full of rotting food, even though it was dumping into an empty PVC tube. So for now the plank is removed from the tank, as I really have no fish to feed any more. I just thought you guys should be aware that this can occur.

Dang, that’s rough. Glad you figured it out though! Are you going to put a mesh filter in front or just rework the whole system?

 

[nezw0001]

Dang, that’s rough. Glad you figured it out though! Are you going to put a mesh filter in front or just rework the whole system?

I'm going to rework the plank feeder and come up with a different plan that doesn't require such a long tube.

 

[MnFish1]

Well I found the problem...

For a recap I have a 1500 gallon + system made up of two large tanks. A 450G mixed reef upstairs and a 750G FOWLR in the basement. The sump, quarantine and frag tanks are also in the sump room. The 750 has one plank feeding pellets and the plank sits right on the tank, no problems there. The 450G is feed by the plank dosing into the sump right in front of the return intake. This necessitates a long piece of PVC on the plank, approximately 10".

one day while cleaning I noticed that there was food coming out of the top of the plank PVC. I took it apart and discovered the entire tube was full of ROTTING, nasty food. It was black and stinky. I cleaned it out and did about 2000G of water changes over the next couple of days. The pump at the bottom was operational. I could find no explanation what went wrong.

I thought it would be a good idea to reinstall without the pump as the PVC dumps into the sump and there is a good amount of suction pulling the food into the return. Everything was fine for a while but I had to leave on a business trip for 10 days. I get back and there are several more dead fish and once again the full PVC is full of rotting food, even though it was dumping into an empty PVC tube. So for now the plank is removed from the tank, as I really have no fish to feed any more. I just thought you guys should be aware that this can occur.

I'm going to assume that then - it was a chemical issue - as originally suggested - and likely H2S. released from your PVC/Feeding - in increments - which caused sudden death of fish. Sorry to hear it.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Well I found the problem...

For a recap I have a 1500 gallon + system made up of two large tanks. A 450G mixed reef upstairs and a 750G FOWLR in the basement. The sump, quarantine and frag tanks are also in the sump room. The 750 has one plank feeding pellets and the plank sits right on the tank, no problems there. The 450G is feed by the plank dosing into the sump right in front of the return intake. This necessitates a long piece of PVC on the plank, approximately 10".

one day while cleaning I noticed that there was food coming out of the top of the plank PVC. I took it apart and discovered the entire tube was full of ROTTING, nasty food. It was black and stinky. I cleaned it out and did about 2000G of water changes over the next couple of days. The pump at the bottom was operational. I could find no explanation what went wrong.

I thought it would be a good idea to reinstall without the pump as the PVC dumps into the sump and there is a good amount of suction pulling the food into the return. Everything was fine for a while but I had to leave on a business trip for 10 days. I get back and there are several more dead fish and once again the full PVC is full of rotting food, even though it was dumping into an empty PVC tube. So for now the plank is removed from the tank, as I really have no fish to feed any more. I just thought you guys should be aware that this can occur.

In fisheries biology there are records of rancid feeds being fed to fish and causing acute liver failure from consuming aflatoxins (spelling?). I heard this Ike 40 years ago, so I’m light on details (grin).
Jay

 

[nezw0001]

The mass of food in the tube was significant. I suspect it could have been releasing ammonia in excess of what my LR could handle? Alflatoxins and all the associated mycotoxins are extremely like as the environment would have been ideal for mold growth, at least on the upper layers of the tube.

 

[nezw0001]

I was hoping the last update would have been the last of this saga but apparently not. The fish deaths have continued. All fish display accelerated respiration prior to death. No skin lesions. I'm starting to suspect it might be the LC dosing?? I pulled the LC during the start of the crisis as I wasn't sure what the problem was but restarted it after I found the feeder situation. Took a little while for deaths to start again. Fish in QT who's water came from the DT are fine. I've used LC for years with no problems but maybe its a cumulative effect??

I pulled the LC today and started changing large volumes of water again. Probably don't need LC now as I hardly have any livestock left.

Any thoughts? What are my options for phosphate control with this big a of a system besides LC? GFO is a joke with this much water volume.

 

[MnFish1]

I was hoping the last update would have been the last of this saga but apparently not. The fish deaths have continued. All fish display accelerated respiration prior to death. No skin lesions. I'm starting to suspect it might be the LC dosing?? I pulled the LC during the start of the crisis as I wasn't sure what the problem was but restarted it after I found the feeder situation. Took a little while for deaths to start again. Fish in QT who's water came from the DT are fine. I've used LC for years with no problems but maybe its a cumulative effect??

I pulled the LC today and started changing large volumes of water again. Probably don't need LC now as I hardly have any livestock left.

Any thoughts? What are my options for phosphate control with this big a of a system besides LC? GFO is a joke with this much water volume.

Is LC liquid Carbon? And if so - it should not affect the fish - unless it's dosed inappropriately. Instead I would start over with the discussion - and try not to relate the current problems to what happened before. I.e. Your parameters, etc etc etc

 

[nezw0001]

Is LC liquid Carbon? And if so - it should not affect the fish - unless it's dosed inappropriately. Instead I would start over with the discussion - and try not to relate the current problems to what happened before. I.e. Your parameters, etc etc etc

Lathanium Chloride - seems like many people report issues with it semi routinely.

Parameters
SG 1.025
Alk 7.5
Ca 350
Nitrates 12 ish
phospates .2 ish, will go up fast without the LC
ammonia - 0
copper - 0

 

[MnFish1]

Lathanium Chloride - seems like many people report issues with it semi routinely.

Parameters
SG 1.025
Alk 7.5
Ca 350
Nitrates 12 ish
phospates .2 ish, will go up fast without the LC
ammonia - 0
copper - 0

I would not think Lanthanum would affect fish - unless at toxic levels.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I would not think Lanthanum would affect fish - unless at toxic levels.

LC clogs the fish’s gills when it precipitates with the phosphorus. Kills tangs first, but can kill other fish. Micro filtration in the dose effluent reduces that happening.
Jay

 

[MnFish1]

LC clogs the fish’s gills when it precipitates with the phosphorus. Kills tangs first, but can kill other fish. Micro filtration in the dose effluent reduces that happening.
Jay

Thanks - yes - I assumed he was following those precautions

 

[nezw0001]

My new plan is to remove all the fish and remaining corals this weekend and put them in a stock tank with new water. live rock will all get rinsed off and put in holding tanks with new water. Remove all the sand, clean both tanks and sump, replace sand, refill and replace. I have engaged MRC/Southeast Aquariums to help me design a more integrated filtration system.