Mysteriously Dying LPS

[ALbque]

The bad batch of salt was Tropic Marin. Replacement salt was Seachem

 

[Sistawolf]

Omg those Zoas though!! Amazing looking tank

 

[Triinsept]

I added three peppermints to my tank a while back, they killed two plate corals and an acan before I got them out.
Super frustrating though! Hope you figure it out.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

I have only seen peppermint shrimp go after corals that were stressed and already dying. With torches and hammers I have had good luck and bad luck they seem to be a hit or miss sometimes. The price of torches have become so high because of their high rate of failure. Dwarf Angel fish if kept well fed do not normally go after coral. There are exceptions to everything and it maybe a fish you never see causing it. I had a matted file fish purchased to help with aiptasia and my cup coral was appearing to be closed most of the time. could not figure out the cause until I finally saw a polyp from the coral hanging from the fishes mouth. I would look to see what parameters may have had major swings over a short period of time. Too much GFO at one time, big temp or alk swing, dosing to much magnesium or potassium at a time. A combination of smaller changes done together. Stress to corals or fish make them more prone to disease. We all hear that we should make changes over days, weeks and months not in hours. The bigger the change the more time required. Back twenty years ago when everyone was making statements that SPS was hard to keep but LPS were easier I could not for the life of me keep any LPS or soft coral for a year but the acros would grow like crazy. Now I do as little as possible to my system. I don't have a torch or any hammers as the ones I had were doing great then I moved and do to a transport problem all my LPS died. I purchased two hammers and one torch but they did not live long. I have some frogspawn that I thought I was going to lose but it came back and doing great. I stopped using GFO and bio-pellets and the system is doing better. The tank has been setup at new home for almost 2 years so now I am going to try a torch again. Sometimes we have a coral or fish die for no apparent reason but when there are many that it is happening to we need to figure out what we did wrong before we blame a sudden large outbreak of pest or a rouge fish.

 

[Scott.h]

When did you add the marine pure blocks?

 

[Scott.h]

Since your nitrates went from 1 to 30 over 2-3 months, they may not be liking that change. I'd also suspect nitrates jumped due to an imbalance with your gfo stripping the phosphate.

If you added marine pure since the problem, I'd remove marine pure, stop the gfo, do a few big water changes a week apart. Don't change salt mixes, and leave things alone for a bit. Depending on the amount of palys it could be a toxin issue too.

Also I found most of my lps didn't like that much light. With the radions they would do just fine around 50-75 par.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

When did you add the marine pure blocks?

Over the course of the last 18 months. Think I started with a few plates under my aquascape. Added a couple of the blocks to the sump about 8 months in and a couple more plates in the bubble trap a month or two ago. Nothing that I could correlate to the LPS issues. I wouldn't be surprised if my clowns killed an elegance (as someone else pointed out) or two trying to host after I had a big sebae randomly die, but I doubt they killed all 15-20 of my various euphyllias, as a have 20-30 nems that they would much rather live in.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

Since your nitrates went from 1 to 30 over 2-3 months, they may not be liking that change. I'd also suspect nitrates jumped due to an imbalance with your gfo stripping the phosphate.

If you added marine pure since the problem, I'd remove marine pure, stop the gfo, do a few big water changes a week apart. Don't change salt mixes, and leave things alone for a bit. Depending on the amount of palys it could be a toxin issue too.

Also I found most of my lps didn't like that much light. With the radions they would do just fine around 50-75 par.

I don't have a ton of palys in that tank and I run GAC, that I swap out every other weekend. I've definitely considered chemical warfare as a possible culprit. I am a bit suspect that my soft corals (along with high nutrients, flame angel and emerald crabs) contributed the death of the sps frags I tried in there. I can't drop my overall lighting much, since I have a 18" ritteri and a few big bottom dwelling nems that require high lighting.

I may try going a week without GFO and see what happens, but I have a feeling my Phosphate level will get up into the .2-.3 range. I am working on getting my PO to 0.02-0.04 and NO to 10-15. I may try a few canary LPS in a month or two and start them out around the bottom. I still have one really nice purple/gold torch and a bubble coral that have been unaffected...

Is there an ideal NO to PO balance? I've heard 16:1 before, but haven't really read all the science behind it.

 

[Scott.h]

Did you put in those marine pure blocks within the last 6 months? They leach contaminates. If they've been in since day one though rule that out.

What you may find is if you pull your GFO your nitrates may come down and balance. All my three systems have GFO reactors on them. I haven't used any of them in a while. My one tank measured 32 nitrates yesterday. A few weeks ago I decided to put a new half a cup of GFO in there since it's been off for months. Within three days I noticed a negativity because of it. I shut it off. A week later, fine again. Gfo is really efficient of sucking too much po4 out of the water.. in all of my systems anyway.

I don't have a ton of palys in that tank and I run GAC, that I swap out every other weekend. I've definitely considered chemical warfare as a possible culprit. I am a bit suspect that my soft corals (along with high nutrients, flame angel and emerald crabs) contributed the death of the sps frags I tried in there. I can't drop my overall lighting much, since I have a 18" ritteri and a few big bottom dwelling nems that require high lighting.

I may try going a week without GFO and see what happens, but I have a feeling my Phosphate level will get up into the .2-.3 range. I am working on getting my PO to 0.02-0.04 and NO to 10-15. I may try a few canary LPS in a month or two and start them out around the bottom. I still have one really nice purple/gold torch and a bubble coral that have been unaffected...

Is there an ideal NO to PO balance? I've heard 16:1 before, but haven't really read all the science behind it.

The height of your lighting is fine. Running it at 100% is a lot of light though. Lowering the intensity for a week certainly won't hurt.

There are a lot of variables. Sometimes it's trial and error. But you have to give it time to see it react.

 

[Whipples]

This might sound super lame but have you tried calibration fluid with your refractometer? I lost a hammer head, octospawn head, and 2 torches before I realized my refractometer was way, way off. Everything has recovered nicely since then, and I am kicking myself for not doing that in the first place...

 

[Elgringodiablo]

Did you put in those marine pure blocks within the last 6 months? They leach contaminates. If they've been in since day one though rule that out.

What you may find is if you pull your GFO your nitrates may come down and balance. All my three systems have GFO reactors on them. I haven't used any of them in a while. My one tank measured 32 nitrates yesterday. A few weeks ago I decided to put a new half a cup of GFO in there since it's been off for months. Within three days I noticed a negativity because of it. I shut it off. A week later, fine again. Gfo is really efficient of sucking too much po4 out of the water.. in all of my systems anyway.


The height of your lighting is fine. Running it at 100% is a lot of light though. Lowering the intensity for a week certainly won't hurt.

There are a lot of variables. Sometimes it's trial and error. But you have to give it time to see it react.

I will try no GFO for a week or two and see what happens. As far as the lighting goes, I don't run them at 100% ever, my peak 8 hour photoperiod is about 60%. Upper areas of the rock work are coming in around 375 PAR while the sandbed is about 150. Gen 4 Radion Pros would probably cook half my tank at 100%. I've actually been wondering if anyone runs them that high.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

This might sound super lame but have you tried calibration fluid with your refractometer? I lost a hammer head, octospawn head, and 2 torches before I realized my refractometer was way, way off. Everything has recovered nicely since then, and I am kicking myself for not doing that in the first place...

I had that problem in the past, but way before this happened. I am currently running a Neptune conductivity probe, testing 2-3 times a week with a Milwaukee digital checker and then have a refractometer as a sanity check in case my readings look off. I don't trust any of them 100% and calibrate basically every time I use them.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

I was going through my pictures to see if I could find some good examples of before and after, unfortunately I didn't really have many that I'd consider useful. What I did discover, is that prior to this all happening, around the end of January, my tank was teaming with bryopsis and my montis and other SPS and LPS looked pretty healthy. Maybe it was the Fluconazole... I took before pics to document how bad the bryopsis was.

 

[MaccaPopEye]

I was going through my pictures to see if I could find some good examples of before and after, unfortunately I didn't really have many that I'd consider useful. What I did discover, is that prior to this all happening, around the end of January, my tank was teaming with bryopsis and my montis and other SPS and LPS looked pretty healthy. Maybe it was the Fluconazole... I took before pics to document how bad the bryopsis was.

In case it helps this sounds exactly like what happened to me and I have a couple of before and after pics I can post. Hammers and torch corals did a mix of just peeling off and receding before bailing out. Other LPS all just receded slowly.

I also did Fluconazole, but my issues started a few months before then - and a lot of people have no issues with it so I "think" that could maybe be ruled out.

All these before and afters are about a month between the before and after. Without fail over the last 6 months + I can add a colony or frag, it will look healthy for 3-4 weeks and then rapidly decline over 1-2 weeks.
Feb-March

May-June

 

[Ukreefer]

Peppermint shrimp will turn on corals at some point, everyone I have ever had have done at some point some within days others took months

 

[revhtree]

In case it helps this sounds exactly like what happened to me and I have a couple of before and after pics I can post. Hammers and torch corals did a mix of just peeling off and receding before bailing out. Other LPS all just receded slowly.

I also did Fluconazole, but my issues started a few months before then - and a lot of people have no issues with it so I "think" that could maybe be ruled out.

All these before and afters are about a month between the before and after. Without fail over the last 6 months + I can add a colony or frag, it will look healthy for 3-4 weeks and then rapidly decline over 1-2 weeks.
Feb-March

May-June

I have been having LPS issues myself!

 

[Elgringodiablo]

In case it helps this sounds exactly like what happened to me and I have a couple of before and after pics I can post. Hammers and torch corals did a mix of just peeling off and receding before bailing out. Other LPS all just receded slowly.

I also did Fluconazole, but my issues started a few months before then - and a lot of people have no issues with it so I "think" that could maybe be ruled out.

All these before and afters are about a month between the before and after. Without fail over the last 6 months + I can add a colony or frag, it will look healthy for 3-4 weeks and then rapidly decline over 1-2 weeks.
Feb-March

May-June

Sounds identical to my issues... no idea what the culprit is huh?

 

[MaccaPopEye]

Sounds identical to my issues... no idea what the culprit is huh?

Absolutely nothing I can find mate. So far I've checked:
- PAR
- Tried raising and lowering flow
- I have stable big 3 (alk, ca, mag)
- Did a full Triton test (one or two slightly low but definitely wouldn't cause this)
- I had 0 NO3 and 0 PO4 which everyone said was bad (even though LPS did well in my old tank for 2 years at those levels) so I raised them up to 20ppm NO3 and 0.5ppm PO4 and held them there for a couple of months - no change
- Have also been dosing amino acids but no dice.

I do have coral banded shrimp but they were added after this started (about half way) so they aren't the culprit, and no peppermint shrimp. I only have 3 tangs, 2 clowns, 1 damsel and 1 bi0colour dottyback. Nothing there that eats coral and none of them pick at the coral.

3 maxima clams are all thriving and growing by the day, 2 large BTA both doing well and growing. 2 leather corals + lots of mushrooms and rics are all doing well. I have 2 zoa rocks and 1 is doing fine but the other has died off over the last 2 months so i am not sure if that is related or not, only soft coral deaths I have had. I also run GAC for any chemical warfare so that is unlikely.

Unfortunately my thread about it is the same as yours so far, a few people offering possible solutions but nothing so far that works and a lot of people commenting to say they are having the same issue.

 

[Scott.h]

Absolutely nothing I can find mate. So far I've checked:
- PAR
- Tried raising and lowering flow
- I have stable big 3 (alk, ca, mag)
- Did a full Triton test (one or two slightly low but definitely wouldn't cause this)
- I had 0 NO3 and 0 PO4 which everyone said was bad (even though LPS did well in my old tank for 2 years at those levels) so I raised them up to 20ppm NO3 and 0.5ppm PO4 and held them there for a couple of months - no change
- Have also been dosing amino acids but no dice.

I do have coral banded shrimp but they were added after this started (about half way) so they aren't the culprit, and no peppermint shrimp. I only have 3 tangs, 2 clowns, 1 damsel and 1 bi0colour dottyback. Nothing there that eats coral and none of them pick at the coral.

3 maxima clams are all thriving and growing by the day, 2 large BTA both doing well and growing. 2 leather corals + lots of mushrooms and rics are all doing well. I have 2 zoa rocks and 1 is doing fine but the other has died off over the last 2 months so i am not sure if that is related or not, only soft coral deaths I have had. I also run GAC for any chemical warfare so that is unlikely.

Unfortunately my thread about it is the same as yours so far, a few people offering possible solutions but nothing so far that works and a lot of people commenting to say they are having the same issue.

It may just be chemical warfare. I have a softie tank with a lot of palys in it. Most corals in that tank won't survive. I also have one species of anemone doing well in there long term. I can move a coral from upstairs to downstairs with the exact same equipment, parameters, husbandry and within two weeks it will thrive. I run carbon in a reactor and have also tried changing it out weekly. I'm convinced every coral releases some amount of toxin. Ive even experienced a problem with grape caulerpa effecting some sps. Removed caulerpa, problem gone. It all depends on what you have, how much, and water volume imho.

 

[Elgringodiablo]

It may just be chemical warfare. I have a softie tank with a lot of palys in it. Most corals in that tank won't survive. I also have one species of anemone doing well in there long term. I can move a coral from upstairs to downstairs with the exact same equipment, parameters, husbandry and within two weeks it will thrive. I run carbon in a reactor and have also tried changing it out weekly. I'm convinced every coral releases some amount of toxin. Ive even experienced a problem with grape caulerpa effecting some sps. Removed caulerpa, problem gone. It all depends on what you have, how much, and water volume imho.

I definitely wouldn't rule it out, as I do have some big soft corals in my tank that all the LPS crashed in, however there was a long stretch where those coexisted just fine without LPS dying constantly. From what I recall, my LPS did a lot better when I had a ton of bryopsis, very low nutrients and was doing weekly 10% water changes (instead of every other week).