NEED A DKH LESSON FOR CYCLING A TANK, PLEASE.

[EASTERN INDIGO]

I have a fish only tank. 150 including sump. I have 9 foxface fish and one juvenile clown trigger. Despite literally 20 pounds of Soporax media, plus a supplemental high flow cannister filter filled with even more media, and a very high flow rate for both the sump and cannister, I have used LITERALLY ONE GALLON (maybe more) of Turbostart 900 and still cannot get that tank to cycle. It is producing nitrite and nitrate, but the ammonia and nitrite levels are always above zero, no matter what I do. I am hitting the tank with Prime every other day. It has been 6 weeks now. I am switching to NiteOut 2, and the instructions say to make sure the dkh is high enough to support bacteria growth. The tank is bare bottom with no rock, just the media, as this is an isolation tank before adding to the main system. I have never paid attention to carbonate hardness because I'm fish only, and I don't understand the difference between kh and dkh. So with my hanna checker ready to go, can anybody tell me what level to raise the dkh (that's what Hanna measures) to be at an optimum level to support growth? Then I need to know how to keep it there. Also, this tank is at .26 salinity. How far and how fast can I safely lower the salinity? Many thanks in advance.

 

[Danroo]

There isn’t much substrate for the bacteria to catch on. So it might take a while for the tank to be cycled, I would suggest to be patient and keep using prime until the ammonia reaches 0. I’m sure with that size of a tank you don’t have to worry about nitrites.

 

[Jekyl]

You shouldn't have any fish in the tank during the cycle. Once actually cycled you should add 1 or 2, wait a month add another etc etc.. I would make sure ammonia isn't at a toxic level. Also, without rock there is nothing for the bacteria you need to grow on. As currently set up every fish will not make it.

 

[Miami Reef]

What salt mix are you using to make your salt? I’m pretty sure the issue isn’t the alkalinity (dkh).

I also don’t think the canister filter is holding enough material for enough bacteria. They usually recommend a pound of rock per gallon. You do seem to have a pretty large bio load.

Wait a second. What test kit are you using to test ammonia? Please tell me it’s not API. How high is your ammonia? API gives false .25ppm ammonia readings, especially with prime added.

 

[Rmckoy]

I was always to the understanding ,
Sand and rocks are very helpful for buffering .

I am not sure what Hanna checker you have but my Hanna alk checker is measured in ppm
Depending on what the desired measurement is .
there are many ways to achieve that .
For example . 134ppm is equal to 7.504dkh

multiply ppm by .056 to get dkh

 

[EASTERN INDIGO]

In today's world of concentated bacteria many, many people start cycling a tank with fish successfully.

I have over 20 pounds of porous media in the sump and probably another 5 in the canister. The media is getting a very good flow exposure. That more than makes up for a pound of less porous rock per gallon. THE MAIN QUEtSION I WOULD APPRECIATE AN ANSWER TO IS THIS: In dkh, what is the "optimum" number that will work with the bacteria? Then how do I keep it there. Thanks

 

[Rmckoy]

In today's world of concentated bacteria many, many people start cycling a tank with fish successfully.

I have over 20 pounds of porous media in the sump and probably another 5 in the canister. The media is getting a very good flow exposure. That more than makes up for a pound of less porous rock per gallon. THE MAIN QUEtSION I WOULD APPRECIATE AN ANSWER TO IS THIS: In dkh, what is the "optimum" number that will work with the bacteria? Then how do I keep it there. Thanks

7-12 dkh is optimum reef alk .
how to keep it there ? Test and dose accordingly .
Without enough rocks or sand you might have a hard time as there is no buffering capability with the little amount of media .

it wouldn’t be sufficient to colonize enough bacteria ,
Never mind stabilize other parameters .

 

[reefinatl]

In today's world of concentated bacteria many, many people start cycling a tank with fish successfully.

I have over 20 pounds of porous media in the sump and probably another 5 in the canister. The media is getting a very good flow exposure. That more than makes up for a pound of less porous rock per gallon. THE MAIN QUEtSION I WOULD APPRECIATE AN ANSWER TO IS THIS: In dkh, what is the "optimum" number that will work with the bacteria? Then how do I keep it there. Thanks

Don't worry about dkh, don't even check on it for at least a month or two. Just monitor nutrients and ammonia and do waterchanges as necessary. Prime will give false ammonia readings so I'd suggest tracking nitrites.. when they hit zero stop prime and monitor ammonia as a check. Dropping in 9 foxfaces and a clown trigger into a tank with a bottle of bacteria is bold to put it as politely as possible.

To answer your question dkh should be between 7.5 and 12 depending on lights nutrients and desired corals.

 

[ScottR]

Don’t add prime during a cycle. It will bind to the ammonia and nitrite, hence basically stopping the cycle. The nitrifying bacteria have nothing to eat and can’t populate. Kh is carbonate hardness and not tested in marine tanks. dKH is alkalinity and you don’t need to follow it during a cycle.

 

[EASTERN INDIGO]

These were very good replies. Thanks. I am going to clean and drop in 100 pounds bacteria sand and slowly raise the dkh. From what I'm reading, both on the bacteria label and other sources, the bacteria seems to do well with higher dkh and lower salinity. I have had these fish in there from day one, zero deaths in six weeks. I will do a 50% water change every other day and stop using the prime. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks.

Can anybody tell me how many degrees of dkh can be raised safely over let's say a 24 hour period? Fish only.

 

[Jekyl]

These were very good replies. Thanks. I am going to clean and drop in 100 pounds bacteria sand and slowly raise the dkh. From what I'm reading, both on the bacteria label and other sources, the bacteria seems to do well with higher dkh and lower salinity. I have had these fish in there from day one, zero deaths in six weeks. I will do a 50% water change every other day and stop using the prime. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks.

Can anybody tell me how many degrees of dkh can be raised safely over let's say a 24 hour period? Fish only.

There shouldn't be any alkalinity being consumed. The amount that is in your salt mix should be enough. Dosing isn't necessary.

 

[Danroo]

I’m scratching my head on how are you losing Dkh. Without any corals it shouldn’t be lowering.

 

[reefinatl]

There shouldn't be any alkalinity being consumed. The amount that is in your salt mix should be enough. Dosing isn't necessary.

Cycling eats up dkh

 

[Jekyl]

Cycling eats up dkh

I've never heard of anyone dosing for a cycle.

 

[Rmckoy]

These were very good replies. Thanks. I am going to clean and drop in 100 pounds bacteria sand and slowly raise the dkh. From what I'm reading, both on the bacteria label and other sources, the bacteria seems to do well with higher dkh and lower salinity. I have had these fish in there from day one, zero deaths in six weeks. I will do a 50% water change every other day and stop using the prime. I'll keep you all posted. Thanks.

Can anybody tell me how many degrees of dkh can be raised safely over let's say a 24 hour period? Fish only.

Less than 1dkh over 24hrs

 

[EASTERN INDIGO]

Dkh was 5. Instant ocean regular is 10.5, so apparently the bacteria IS eating it. As for never hearing of anybody dosing for a cycle, it might help and won't hurt. I'll let you all know. Thanks to everybody.

 

[Rmckoy]

Dkh was 5. Instant ocean regular is 10.5, so apparently the bacteria IS eating it. As for never hearing of anybody dosing for a cycle, it might help and won't hurt. I'll let you all know. Thanks to everybody.

Not heard of partially with the old mindset of we test alk for corals . And we don’t stock corals until tank is cycled .
That being said everything changes with time and research ,

very interesting idea and curious if the nitrogen cycle actually consumes alkalinity or what is

 

[brandon429]

Your tank is 1000% cycled as no cycle has ever stalled


cheap test kits tricked many.

(those concerned over dead bottle bac might claim a stall / but if we choose to input dead bottle bac vs live ones, that reverts to the unassisted cycle timeline, which doesnt stall. A dead bac cycle isn’t a live bac cycle, so it’s not stalled.)

a totally unfed not dosed with bac unassisted cycle will self complete in under sixty days wait. We have a few on file now.

im entering this post in our guaranteed no cycle has ever stalled thread of fifteen pages, even before we get pics, params or any details.

proof clue #1

you haven’t reported dead fish. You’re cycled.

here’s the thread, even your dkh doesn’t matter or we’d have dead tanks vs happy ones here

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

notice in that thread theres no hum hawing


nobody showed up 90% cycled and needed an adjustment to close out the last ten pct


every single link is just plainly cycled though nobody agreed much in the assessment till we got those pretty proof pics of the display showing myriad attachment points, five times past the duration dates right on the bottle label, carrying full fish and feeding in totally clear water. And then a twelve dollar ammonia kit ruins all the trust we should have in the bacteria lol

 

[brandon429]

Proof #2 will be the full tank pic showing clean water and even fish distribution vs dead floating fish fed in your non cycled system.


can you post a tank pic


you bought the best bac made and if you added four capfuls when you began vs a gallon, you’d be as cycled as you are now. Adding lots of bac didn’t mean they had room to attach, your surface areas was colonized on the first dose about 48 hours after feeding, Dr Reefs bottle bac thread shows.

 

[blasterman]

Cycling really eats up alk because its a major source of carbon for bacteria, so yeah, it's a good idea to keep dKH in a solid range.

You're making nitrate, so you're cycling. Bacteria are setting up shop in the media in the cannister. Just remember once you do this cannister has to be kept going at all times.

I would keep dKH around 8ish. Gives you some wiggle room. You just don't want it to fall below 7.

I rolled the math for you, and each .5 point of dKH to raise in your tank requires just a tad less than two teaspoons of baking soda. Just dump it in. Once cycling is complete, and it might be now, it will slow down. Its that simple.