NEED HELP WITH BOXFISH ICH

[Roja]

I recently got a wild caught female black boxfish approx. 6 days ago. Size 2.5-3" and seemed very healthy and active. No visible damages except for a tiny opaque tear in one fin that's barely noticeable. I got it from a holding facility where they export fish from and they said she eats chopped raw shrimp, mysis and dr. Bassler pellets.

However she has not eaten so far and despite giving nori, raw shrimp, pellets and dr. Bassler, she's not interested. I even tried offering the raw shrimp to her mouth via a skewer, but no interest. She's very receptive and comes up to me and shows no fear at all, even let's me bring the food right to her face but doesn't feed. I suspect internal parasites cos she pooped white stringy stuff yesterday.

I noticed the white spots on the fins last night. She's been rubbing constantly on the glass since she came in and the spot above her eye is now opaque and mucous-y, almost a bit inflamed. I think she's trying to scratch.

I know boxfish are especially susceptible to ich and stressors and being in a new environment may trigger it, and I really wanna go with treatment and save her. She's my first boxfish and a really nice specimen too.

She's in a 40 US gallon tank with one baby molly (who may have had the parasite asymptomatically I suspect from a former outbreak). Apart from the 1 cm molly, the boxfish is alone.

The spots are not many as of now but I suspect they will get worse in 24 hrs, as temp in the trophic are a bit high. This was the case with all my former outbreaks.

I read many threads on ich treatment and management on the forum and I'm a bit overwhelmed. Also since this is a boxfish that's particularly sensitive to copper, I wasn't sure how to approach this.

My current options seem to be chleated copper, prazi, hyposalinity, and fw dips.

UV and tank transfer aren't feasible for me right now cos I've never used UV before and space constraints :(

I got a 20l bucket I can treat with copper and treat the boxfish with but again, I really really need your advice as I'm not quite sure how to proceed.

I'll attach pics in a sec...

Pls help me out

 

[Roja]

Hope these are clear, tank is going through an ugly phase. It's already been cycled though.

Girl isn't camera shy at all. The opaque spot above her eye is from all the rubbing on the glass. It was a bit tough to get the spots on the fins cos my camera isn't that good and the light keeps reflecting off the fins, but the spots are there and it's definitely ich. Not enough to be velvet, and small, round and opaque white.

 

[Euphyllia97]

I would go for hyposalinity method. If you can not use your display tank for the hypo, make sure you can run the Display tank fishless for 8 weeks.

During the course of 48 hours, gradually lower your SG to 1.010. Keep this SG stable for 4 weeks and then over the course of 48 hours increase SG again to 1.026. Make sure to respect the 8 weeks of fishless tank before you reintroduce the fish to the display tank.

As it is provably having some stress making the ich worse, feed with garlic extract and some extra vitamin C to boost its immunity. Consider running a UV in the tank. For the rest make sure it can hide and dim your lighting to reduce stress. Feed it well.

I wouldn’t do any Freshwater dips, formalin or copper treatments with this fish

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hope these are clear, tank is going through an ugly phase. It's already been cycled though.

Girl isn't camera shy at all. The opaque spot above her eye is from all the rubbing on the glass. It was a bit tough to get the spots on the fins cos my camera isn't that good and the light keeps reflecting off the fins, but the spots are there and it's definitely ich. Not enough to be velvet, and small, round and opaque white.

Beautiful pics you took. Im not seeing but one or
two dots which could be grains of sand. Ich will multiply both in number and location on a given fish every 24 hours. See if this is the case come tomorrow. They are also prone to flukes

They are not the easiest to treat although tolerate coppersafe at 2.15ppm and often hyposalinity will suppress the parasite but not eradicate it fully not to mention stress it causes for some fish.

 

[Roja]

I would go for hyposalinity method. If you can not use your display tank for the hypo, make sure you can run the Display tank fishless for 8 weeks.

During the course of 48 hours, gradually lower your SG to 1.010. Keep this SG stable for 4 weeks and then over the course of 48 hours increase SG again to 1.026. Make sure to respect the 8 weeks of fishless tank before you reintroduce the fish to the display tank.

As it is provably having some stress making the ich worse, feed with garlic extract and some extra vitamin C to boost its immunity. Consider running a UV in the tank. For the rest make sure it can hide and dim your lighting to reduce stress. Feed it well.

I wouldn’t do any Freshwater dips, formalin or copper treatments with this fish

Hyposalinity seems to be the safest bet so far, yes. I only have a xenia frag and some cryptic sponges in the dt at the moment, no other inverts, so I can do hypo in the dt itself yes? If so, will it affect my bio filter?

The 8 week fallow period doesn't apply if I do the hyposalinity treatment in the dt, right? Just wanted to make sure.

Feeding is the other issue as she hasn't been accepting any food so far, I suspect internal parasites - will hypo have any effect on that too? Maybe eliminate the internal parasites, or should I go for a different treatment for those guys?

I will try adding garlic and some supplements to the food ASAP.

Thanks for the help

 

[Roja]

Beautiful pics you took. Im not seeing but one or
two dots which could be grains of sand. Ich will multiply both in number and location on a given fish every 24 hours. See if this is the case come tomorrow. They are also prone to flukes

They are not the easiest to treat although tolerate coppersafe at 2.15ppm and often hyposalinity will suppress the parasite but not eradicate it fully not to mention stress it causes for some fish.

Thanks, @vetteguy53081

There weren't any dots 2 days ago and now there's like 5 or 6, though it's difficult to see clearly I agree. It's just that I'm really scared cos my juvenile emperor angel started with 1 tiny spot on its tail, and in a week, he was covered in spots and died - this happened around 1 year ago and I'm still very nervous to see those spots on my fish.

Flukes :( - will keep a lookout for that too

So you suppose I go ahead with copper if the situation worsens, so try hypo really slowly? Also if I go with copper, should I ramp up or immediately bring the levels to 100%?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks, @vetteguy53081

There weren't any dots 2 days ago and now there's like 5 or 6, though it's difficult to see clearly I agree. It's just that I'm really scared cos my juvenile emperor angel started with 1 tiny spot on its tail, and in a week, he was covered in spots and died - this happened around 1 year ago and I'm still very nervous to see those spots on my fish.

Flukes :( - will keep a lookout for that too

So you suppose I go ahead with copper if the situation worsens, so try hypo really slowly? Also if I go with copper, should I ramp up or immediately bring the levels to 100%?

Yes and make that decision by tomorrow so you dont place this fish at risk of infestation. Again, if more dots tomorrow- proceed with treatment

 

[Roja]

I would go for hyposalinity method. If you can not use your display tank for the hypo, make sure you can run the Display tank fishless for 8 weeks.

During the course of 48 hours, gradually lower your SG to 1.010. Keep this SG stable for 4 weeks and then over the course of 48 hours increase SG again to 1.026. Make sure to respect the 8 weeks of fishless tank before you reintroduce the fish to the display tank.

So I checked my salinity and it's at 36 ppt. Now I'm in the process of getting it back to 35 ppt. My plan is to continue reducing salinity over 48 hours to 1.010 as @Euphyllia97 suggested. I got a freshwater drip into the tank at a rate that'll get me to 1.010 specific gravity in 48 hrs.

They are not the easiest to treat although tolerate coppersafe at 2.15ppm and often hyposalinity will suppress the parasite but not eradicate it fully not to mention stress it causes for some fish.

I hope the hyposalinity will help with the immediate symptoms, and in case they worsen over the next 24 hrs and more spots come up, I'll have a qt system with copper dosed at the ready, as @vetteguy53081 advised. I can have the copper at the full dosage, right? Or should I ramp up? I read somewhere here that ramping up is for ionic copper and may lead to resistance from the parasite.

Yes and make that decision by tomorrow so you dont place this fish at risk of infestation. Again, if more dots tomorrow- proceed with treatment

Does this sound alright? I'm sorry I'm new to the disease side of reefkeeping, got lucky the first few months and now I feel so overwhelmed.

 

[Roja]

Also, do you suppose the hypo and/or the copper would be effective against internal parasites like worms? I suspect they are the other case as she's not eating and poops stringy white stuff.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Also, do you suppose the hypo and/or the copper would be effective against internal parasites like worms? I suspect they are the other case as she's not eating and poops stringy white stuff.

neither - that would be prazi pro

 

[vetteguy53081]

So I checked my salinity and it's at 36 ppt. Now I'm in the process of getting it back to 35 ppt. My plan is to continue reducing salinity over 48 hours to 1.010 as @Euphyllia97 suggested. I got a freshwater drip into the tank at a rate that'll get me to 1.010 specific gravity in 48 hrs.

I hope the hyposalinity will help with the immediate symptoms, and in case they worsen over the next 24 hrs and more spots come up, I'll have a qt system with copper dosed at the ready, as @vetteguy53081 advised. I can have the copper at the full dosage, right? Or should I ramp up? I read somewhere here that ramping up is for ionic copper and may lead to resistance from the parasite.

Does this sound alright? I'm sorry I'm new to the disease side of reefkeeping, got lucky the first few months and now I feel so overwhelmed.

I prefer coppersafe but you can- it just prolongs the treatment period

 

[rkhan]

I have been using copper power for almost 5 month i have 330 gallon fish only tank and running 0.9 all the time thanks god i have fish grown double the size i was told to run it for 1 month but i was tired to see all the time ich and velvet killing my expensive fish ,does any body done that

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I recently got a wild caught female black boxfish approx. 6 days ago. Size 2.5-3" and seemed very healthy and active. No visible damages except for a tiny opaque tear in one fin that's barely noticeable. I got it from a holding facility where they export fish from and they said she eats chopped raw shrimp, mysis and dr. Bassler pellets.

However she has not eaten so far and despite giving nori, raw shrimp, pellets and dr. Bassler, she's not interested. I even tried offering the raw shrimp to her mouth via a skewer, but no interest. She's very receptive and comes up to me and shows no fear at all, even let's me bring the food right to her face but doesn't feed. I suspect internal parasites cos she pooped white stringy stuff yesterday.

I noticed the white spots on the fins last night. She's been rubbing constantly on the glass since she came in and the spot above her eye is now opaque and mucous-y, almost a bit inflamed. I think she's trying to scratch.

I know boxfish are especially susceptible to ich and stressors and being in a new environment may trigger it, and I really wanna go with treatment and save her. She's my first boxfish and a really nice specimen too.

She's in a 40 US gallon tank with one baby molly (who may have had the parasite asymptomatically I suspect from a former outbreak). Apart from the 1 cm molly, the boxfish is alone.

The spots are not many as of now but I suspect they will get worse in 24 hrs, as temp in the trophic are a bit high. This was the case with all my former outbreaks.

I read many threads on ich treatment and management on the forum and I'm a bit overwhelmed. Also since this is a boxfish that's particularly sensitive to copper, I wasn't sure how to approach this.

My current options seem to be chleated copper, prazi, hyposalinity, and fw dips.

UV and tank transfer aren't feasible for me right now cos I've never used UV before and space constraints :(

I got a 20l bucket I can treat with copper and treat the boxfish with but again, I really really need your advice as I'm not quite sure how to proceed.

I'll attach pics in a sec...

Pls help me out

The white mucus feces is often a sign of lack of food / starvation, not internal parasites.

When you say it is rubbing constantly on the glass, is it like periodic scratching, or more like sliding up and down? Boxfish tend to slide up and down on the glass when they are feeing stressed out.

I'm struggling to see any ich spots on the fish's fins - maybe they just aren't showing up well in the photo?

 

[Roja]

The white mucus feces is often a sign of lack of food / starvation, not internal parasites.

When you say it is rubbing constantly on the glass, is it like periodic scratching, or more like sliding up and down? Boxfish tend to slide up and down on the glass when they are feeing stressed out.

I'm struggling to see any ich spots on the fish's fins - maybe they just aren't showing up well in the photo?

Starvation is possible, she hasn't eaten anything I've offered so far.
It's definitely a constant sliding up and down, I'll send a video when lights are on. But the sliding is inflaming the area above her eye - that's the opaque/mucousy patch.
The spots are definitely there, scattered, circular and opaque white, plus a larger spot on the edge of the fin that I feel is a healing cut, but might be flukes (but flukes aren't visible on the fish, right?). She's rubbing that side with the damaged find more often on the glass, and that's how the white patch over the eye came about. I'm sorry my camera isn't that good and with the light reflecting and the fish moving it's impossible to get a clear shot of just the fins. But I'll try again in the morning.

Apart from the parasites, I can't think of any other reason for stress. The tank is newly cyled, only tankmate is a baby molly, and there is plenty of food for grazing, apart from the stuff I offer. Transport took like a few hours but it's nowhere near as long as what other fish go through during shipping.
I wonder if flow could be a stressor. I only got the flow from my return pump but I'll kill that for a couple hours and observe her reaction.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Starvation is possible, she hasn't eaten anything I've offered so far.
It's definitely a constant sliding up and down, I'll send a video when lights are on. But the sliding is inflaming the area above her eye - that's the opaque/mucousy patch.
The spots are definitely there, scattered, circular and opaque white, plus a larger spot on the edge of the fin that I feel is a healing cut, but might be flukes (but flukes aren't visible on the fish, right?). She's rubbing that side with the damaged find more often on the glass, and that's how the white patch over the eye came about. I'm sorry my camera isn't that good and with the light reflecting and the fish moving it's impossible to get a clear shot of just the fins. But I'll try again in the morning.

Apart from the parasites, I can't think of any other reason for stress. The tank is newly cyled, only tankmate is a baby molly, and there is plenty of food for grazing, apart from the stuff I offer. Transport took like a few hours but it's nowhere near as long as what other fish go through during shipping.
I wonder if flow could be a stressor. I only got the flow from my return pump but I'll kill that for a couple hours and observe her reaction.

If you cut water flow, be sure there is good aeration.

For glass surfing, you can try covering the outside of the tank (ends and back) with black paper - that sometimes helps.

 

[Roja]

If you cut water flow, be sure there is good aeration.

For glass surfing, you can try covering the outside of the tank (ends and back) with black paper - that sometimes helps.

Will do Jay
Thanks :)