Need help with cyano/ spirulina / or something else

[hardcorn77]

I’m at a loss right now with what’s growing on my sand bed. I’ve been battling this stuff for a few weeks now and I just can’t get on top of it. I really believed it was cyano but now I just don’t know. It’s a burgundy color and does Matt on my sand bed but when I try to suck it out to test it it disintegrates. I did a blackout recently and it worked for the first day but then it was back. I’ve got my reds running at 2% and whites below 10% with a hydra 32. My parameters are alk- 9, calcium- 440, magnesium- 1350, salinity 1.026 , ph- 8, nitrates- 11.01, phosphates .04 . I know my nitrates are a tad high but I wouldn’t consider that bad. I’m running an algae reactor for 7 hours a night and I dose Kalkwasser over night and 4 ml of All for Reef when lights go on. I run an oversized skimmer rated for twice my tanks size. My flow is nuts in a 30 gallon with a mp10 running lagoon at 90% with a smaller jebao wave maker cross flowing in the back. The tank is heavy stocked with fish and coral but when I feed daily food is gone with in minutes. I’ve got tons of snails a few hermits, peppermint shrimp, emerald crab, urchin and conch so my clean up crew is stacked. Tanks been as it is since August due to a hydroids break out that I reset the tank so I guess you can consider it new but it was originally set up in July of last year. Same water and sand since the beginning but the rock was reset in August. I’ve also introduced 5lbs of live Marco rock from saltwater aquarium to seed it with good bacteria. I’m at the end of a 48 hour chemiclean treatment and stuff didn’t budge. What’s my next step?

 

[lapin]

Looks like blue stuff to me

 

[hardcorn77]

Looks like blue stuff to me

Sorry if the lights make it look that way but it’s definitely a burgundy

 

[Zwerispetras]

With that much flow there shouldn’t be accumulation of cyano, might be some form of Dinos. You could try run a UV at night, it seems your nutrients aren’t bottomed but you could always try to reduce the reactor’s light cycle and see how the aquarium responds.

 

[hardcorn77]

Looks like blue stuff to me

I added a picture under all whites

 

[hardcorn77]

With that much flow there shouldn’t be accumulation of cyano, might be some form of Dinos. You could try run a UV at night, it seems your nutrients aren’t bottomed but you could always try to reduce the reactor’s light cycle and see how the aquarium responds.

Definitely not Dino’s… I’ve been to war with those guys multiple times and I’ve always had readable nutrients in the tank. The funny thing is my corals have never looked better.

 

[hardcorn77]

Looks like blue stuff to me

Anything?

 

[hardcorn77]

With that much flow there shouldn’t be accumulation of cyano, might be some form of Dinos. You could try run a UV at night, it seems your nutrients aren’t bottomed but you could always try to reduce the reactor’s light cycle and see how the aquarium responds.

After the blackout my phosphate jumped to .56 from all the die off so I did a water change and fired the reactors back up. My phosphates hit .o3 and now .04 and my nitrates started to raise a little so I raised the time it ran by an hour but I might lower it back down. Trust me my worst fear is getting Dino’s again and I’ve always got a bottle of Tropic Marine NP plus ready to go lol.

 

[Subsea]

“It’s a burgundy color and does Matt on my sand bed but when I try to suck it out to test it it disintegrates.”

When I vacuum sand bed during partial water change, It doesn’t matter if it disintegrates, it’s removed from system. Why doesn’t that work for you.

 

[hardcorn77]

“It’s a burgundy color and does Matt on my sand bed but when I try to suck it out to test it it disintegrates.”

When I vacuum sand bed during partial water change, It doesn’t matter if it disintegrates, it’s removed from system. Why doesn’t that work for you.

It does for removal but I was trying to pull some to test for cyano and it just disintegrates and normally I can suck up a good piece of the Mat when it’s cyano.

 

[Subsea]

With that much flow there shouldn’t be accumulation of cyano, might be some form of Dinos. You could try run a UV at night, it seems your nutrients aren’t bottomed but you could always try to reduce the reactor’s light cycle and see how the aquarium responds.

After 55 years in this hobby, I see little documentation that low flow contributes to cyno. However, it is repeated, OFTEN.

 

[hardcorn77]

I do a 10% water change once a week and remove most of it but it’s always back full force in a couple of days.

 

[hardcorn77]

I dealt with cyano first back in 2006 when I worked for a maintenance company in Florida. Normally a good water change and replace the bulbs and it would disappear. That was obviously on fowler tanks but I’m super confused right now on my system.

 

[Subsea]

I do a 10% water change once a week and remove most of it but it’s always back full force in a couple of days.

Get a complete test of dissolved organic compounds in your water.

 

[Zwerispetras]

After 55 years in this hobby, I see little documentation that low flow contributes to cyno. However, it is repeated, OFTEN.

I don’t doubt that, I never really dig deeper into that topic. I have noticed throughout the years that whenever I have some cyano in any of my tanks it tends to be be more prominent in dead spots of the tank, whether that correlates with flow, detritus accumulation, or any other factor I have no idea. It does indeed seem to fade away whenever I direct more flow to that area. Do you have a different experience with cyanobacteria?

 

[Subsea]

I don’t doubt that, I never really dig deeper into that topic. I have noticed throughout the years that whenever I have some cyano in any of my tanks it tends to be be more prominent in dead spots of the tank, whether that correlates with flow, detritus accumulation, or any other factor I have no idea. It does indeed seem to fade away whenever I direct more flow to that area. Do you have a different experience with cyanobacteria?

Yes. It doesn’t seem to care. It grows where it wants to grow.

Cyanobacteria and dinoflagellets are always present in our systems, Depending on consumers & competitors determines if it’s a plague. What I saw on OP’s sand bed is not a plague. It’s a dusting.

 

[mcarroll]

My parameters are alk- 9, calcium- 440, magnesium- 1350, salinity 1.026 , ph- 8, nitrates- 11.01, phosphates .04 . I know my nitrates are a tad high but I wouldn’t consider that bad.

The numbers seem OK...but later it comes up that you have various factors involved that may be destabilizing things.

I’m running an algae reactor for 7 hours a night and I dose Kalkwasser over night and 4 ml of All for Reef when lights go on.

Sounds like you might be meddling with your pH....what happens if you just dose AFR (or two part, or...) and not use the reactor or kalkwasser? What is the tank's natural "stable" in other words....just with flow and protein skimming?

My flow is nuts in a 30 gallon with a mp10 running lagoon at 90% with a smaller jebao wave maker cross flowing in the back.

That sounds like maybe adequate flow at the beginning, but not super. The mp10's useful flow is all about 12" right in front of it. So the other pump is doing about 2/3 of the work.

But even if that flow was perfectly adequate when you started....

The tank is heavy stocked with fish and coral but when I feed daily food is gone with in minutes. I’ve got tons of snails a few hermits, peppermint shrimp, emerald crab, urchin and conch so my clean up crew is stacked. Tanks been as it is since August due to a hydroids break out that I reset the tank so I guess you can consider it new but it was originally set up in July of last year

Your tank is not just fully stocked now, but heavily stocked.

Flow quality declines steadily as corals are added and as they grow out.

If you have a standard 30 Long, you'd need three mp10's (ideally across the back) to get super flow. Two mp40's would be good. A couple of the bigger Tunze nanostreams can do the same...three if the tank is *really* crowded.

I’m at the end of a 48 hour chemiclean treatment and stuff didn’t budge. What’s my next step?

....dino's. I would stop fighting everything like this...it might catch up with the tank at some point.

Definitely not Dino’s… I’ve been to war with those guys multiple times and I’ve always had readable nutrients in the tank. The funny thing is my corals have never looked better.

Cyano isn't a disease or anything – that's one of the main reasons I said stop fighting like this.

After the blackout my phosphate jumped to .56 from all the die off so I did a water change and fired the reactors back up. My phosphates hit .o3 and now .04 and my nitrates started to raise a little so I raised the time it ran by an hour but I might lower it back down. Trust me my worst fear is getting Dino’s again and I’ve always got a bottle of Tropic Marine NP plus ready to go lol.

After Dino's you should know not to mess with your nutrient levels like this. "Too high" is mostly a myth where nutrients and corals are concerned.

Remember that algae and corals prefer *the same* habitat....so if you're trying to make things hostile for algae, you're unlikely to get the success you're after before you affect your corals.

If your PO4 is ≥ 0.10 ppm and your NO3 is ≥ 5 ppm, then IMO you shouldn't be doing anything to mess with your system's natural stability. Don't mess with pH, non blackouts, nothing extra. Your system needs to stabilize.....it's been through a lot, and is still going through it if you're re-treating with chemiclean. It needs a break....like a Bilbo it's currently like butter scratched over too much toast.

There are some non-invasive things at your disposal I haven't seen you mention, namely micron filtration and UV filtration. Both would be to your advantage here. @Paul B has a nice DIY micron filtter design. Simple and effective!!

Otherwise, keep up with manual removal, double check your RODI water and consider a flow upgrade. I've never seen CUC help much with major Cyano growth.

There isn't going to be a magic cure because your tank is in the middle of the Uglies and you've been fighting it....Uglies mostly just have to pass.

But you need to assure those minimum nutrient levels on an ongoing basis for now, and otherwise stop messing with so many things. Live rock + lighting + flow + protein skimming. Only one of those is a potential issue IMO....mostly the fix will be time.

 

[Zwerispetras]

Yes. It doesn’t seem to care. It grows where it wants to grow.

Good luck with that

 

[hardcorn77]

“It’s a burgundy color and does Matt on my sand bed but when I try to suck it out to test it it disintegrates.”

When I vacuum sand bed during partial water change, It doesn’t matter if it disintegrates, it’s removed from system. Why doesn’t that work for you.

The numbers seem OK...but later it comes up that you have various factors involved that may be destabilizing things.


Sounds like you might be meddling with your pH....what happens if you just dose AFR (or two part, or...) and not use the reactor or kalkwasser? What is the tank's natural "stable" in other words....just with flow and protein skimming?


That sounds like maybe adequate flow at the beginning, but not super. The mp10's useful flow is all about 12" right in front of it. So the other pump is doing about 2/3 of the work.

But even if that flow was perfectly adequate when you started....


Your tank is not just fully stocked now, but heavily stocked.

Flow quality declines steadily as corals are added and as they grow out.

If you have a standard 30 Long, you'd need three mp10's (ideally across the back) to get super flow. Two mp40's would be good. A couple of the bigger Tunze nanostreams can do the same...three if the tank is *really* crowded.


....dino's. I would stop fighting everything like this...it might catch up with the tank at some point.


Cyano isn't a disease or anything – that's one of the main reasons I said stop fighting like this.


After Dino's you should know not to mess with your nutrient levels like this. "Too high" is mostly a myth where nutrients and corals are concerned.

Remember that algae and corals prefer *the same* habitat....so if you're trying to make things hostile for algae, you're unlikely to get the success you're after before you affect your corals.

If your PO4 is ≥ 0.10 ppm and your NO3 is ≥ 5 ppm, then IMO you shouldn't be doing anything to mess with your system's natural stability. Don't mess with pH, non blackouts, nothing extra. Your system needs to stabilize.....it's been through a lot, and is still going through it if you're re-treating with chemiclean. It needs a break....like a Bilbo it's currently like butter scratched over too much toast.

There are some non-invasive things at your disposal I haven't seen you mention, namely micron filtration and UV filtration. Both would be to your advantage here. @Paul B has a nice DIY micron filtter design. Simple and effective!!

Otherwise, keep up with manual removal, double check your RODI water and consider a flow upgrade. I've never seen CUC help much with major Cyano growth.

There isn't going to be a magic cure because your tank is in the middle of the Uglies and you've been fighting it....Uglies mostly just have to pass.

But you need to assure those minimum nutrient levels on an ongoing basis for now, and otherwise stop messing with so many things. Live rock + lighting + flow + protein skimming. Only one of those is a potential issue IMO....mostly the fix will be time.

I really appreciate your response. I have another mp10 being delivered in a couple of days to replace that jabeo pump and it’s a 30 gallon water box so it’s more square. I have 5 gallon diy sump that runs through a 200 micron filter sock. I’m kinda old school so I’m big on mechanical filtration. I’ve always done weekly water changes since I started this hobby back in 1993. Would it be cool to run my reactor for a couple of hours a night so I don’t loose my chaeto? I started Kalkwasser because it was all I wanted to does with water changes to keep up with my system but I needed a little more so I started all for reef in the mornings and I only dose 100 ml of lime water through out the night. I was already thinking of stopping that because I really don’t care about the ph boost it gives. Also I just replaced my ro unit a few weeks ago and it’s showing 0 tds.

 

[mcarroll]

I have another mp10 being delivered in a couple of days to replace that jabeo pump and it’s a 30 gallon water box so it’s more square.

The tank might appreciate having all three pumps – the mp10's are *very* small. See how it goes – you'll have all three to play with!

I have 5 gallon diy sump that runs through a 200 micron filter sock. I’m kinda old school so I’m big on mechanical filtration. I’ve always done weekly water changes since I started this hobby back in 1993.

I would put those on pause at least for the moment. It's not a great idea to keep doing water changes once nutrient levels get as low as yours. Some systems tolerate it, but not new ones that are post-dino.

Would it be cool to run my reactor for a couple of hours a night so I don’t loose my chaeto?

Maybe make other concessions first if you really like the macroalgae for other reasons....but it seems like your system may not really need it.

I started Kalkwasser because it was all I wanted to does with water changes to keep up with my system but I needed a little more so I started all for reef in the mornings and I only dose 100 ml of lime water through out the night. I was already thinking of stopping that because I really don’t care about the ph boost it gives.

A smarter supplement could kalk+vinegar....you can ramp up the concentration far higher, and you get the same bacterial kick as other similar programs like AFR. Lots ways to skin that dosing cat though. Definitely read up on the options and select what's best for you and your budget. 2-part (DIY or ESV if I have my druthers) is still my favorite, but I also did 2-part + kalk and vinegar for a long time.

Also I just replaced my ro unit a few weeks ago and it’s showing 0 tds.

If your old RODI wasn't delivering good water at the end of its life, then that could even be the root cause of your cyano.

Since your corals seem happy, IMO just work toward more and more stability....and take some of these suggestions as they make sense to take. Go slow, and listen to your gut!