Neptune APEX Reliability (Shocking in my experience!)

[CC13]

Neptune has absolutely horrid reliably. The build quality is laughable. Price/performance is horrendous and if anyone read reviews from people WHO HAVE ACTUALLY USED MORE THAN ONE BRAND OF CONTROLLER, they would never go near Neptune.

I agree with this. I have owned and used both Neptune and GHL. GHL in my honest opinion is far better build quality. The only downside to GHL stuff is the availability of getting certain parts or add-ons quickly in Canada or the US, and overall, GHL stuff costs more. But you pay for what you get.

To not be one-sided, I will say that for an individual with no clue how to write code (like myself), Neptune makes it far easier to set-up logic for individuals like myself. With GHL, you need to have a far better understanding of how to program, which I don't trust myself with. I have seen and read some things others have been able to do with their GHL units and its pretty remarkable.

 

[Rick Mathew]

I have two Apex system...A classic and the new one. As any technology they have their "glitches" but for the most part they have preformed well. Non the less I keep a close eye on the systems and have some "fail-Safe" alternatives in place because like any technology they will let you down...most of the time when you most need them!!

 

[MnFish1]

Do you have any data? Or just some anecdotes from annoyed people who rant online. Have you considered making a poll regarding the reliability of people’s apex system? Or do you just prefer pulling claims out of your..... aquarium ;)

If you go to the Neptune Systems forum - you can read it all for yourself. There are multiple 'instances' especially at the startup of the Apex 2016 - where there were bad chips, etc - a problem was initially minimized - then realized then they seemed to 'fix it'. You're talking so generally - that its impossible to answer.

My Apex 2016 failed 3 times. My apex classic has never had a problem. The question in the OP was 'apex reliability', Thats also general - if you have 10 modules you're more likely to have failures than if you have one module.

For me personally - I can't rely on it because of my personal experience... As I think I mentioned - I also will not rely on another controller either for the same reason - I'd rather pay attention to the tank myself

Lastly - its funny on the Fritz salt thread recently you many times stated Fritz salt was great - because you had never had a problem - etc etc - kind of like you're saying here implying that people that have had problems are somehow minimal based on this comment: (Or just some anecdotes from annoyed people who rant online)

But then you had a problem possibly from your Fritz salt and now I would hope you understand why people 'rant online' - because my guess based on that thread is that the number of people who have had problems with Fritz salt like you did is minimal.

All it takes is one tank crash thats due to a piece of equipment to start questioning reliability.

 

[TheHarold]

If you go to the Neptune Systems forum - you can read it all for yourself. There are multiple 'instances' especially at the startup of the Apex 2016 - where there were bad chips, etc - a problem was initially minimized - then realized then they seemed to 'fix it'. You're talking so generally - that its impossible to answer.

My Apex 2016 failed 3 times. My apex classic has never had a problem. The question in the OP was 'apex reliability', Thats also general - if you have 10 modules you're more likely to have failures than if you have one module.

For me personally - I can't rely on it because of my personal experience... As I think I mentioned - I also will not rely on another controller either for the same reason - I'd rather pay attention to the tank myself

Lastly - its funny on the Fritz salt thread recently you many times stated Fritz salt was great - because you had never had a problem - etc etc - kind of like you're saying here implying that people that have had problems are somehow minimal based on this comment: (Or just some anecdotes from annoyed people who rant online)

But then you had a problem possibly from your Fritz salt and now I would hope you understand why people 'rant online' - because my guess based on that thread is that the number of people who have had problems with Fritz salt like you did is minimal.

All it takes is one tank crash thats due to a piece of equipment to start questioning reliability.

Well yes, just like the other people who like to jump to a conclusion, I thought it was the salt. But I took a scientific method and did an ICP test, and it didn’t seem to be the case :).

Anyway, on a semi-related note, a controller “failure” shouldn’t crash a tank if set up properly.

 

[MnFish1]

Well yes, just like the other people who like to jump to a conclusion, I thought it was the salt. But I took a scientific method and did an ICP test, and it didn’t seem to be the case :).

Anyway, on a semi-related note, a controller “failure” shouldn’t crash a tank if set up properly.

Well - what happens if (when you leave on vacation) - and the next day your EB chip fails and no power is getting to anything in the tank? And you get no email alerts - when the temperature dropped to 71 overnight? Do you think that might do it? I posted an entire thread about it - some people actually accused me of outright 'lying' - that I must have done something wrong - or that it was an entirely made up story.

It took a month - I sent the controller and the EB into Neptune - they found 2 defective chips (no programming issues) - and replaced them - and a month later I had my system back - However - in the meantime - I used a surge suppressor - and realized - I didnt need all the modules, etc that (to me were not reliable) so I just use my apex to monitor - and shut things off when I need to.

I do not see how an ICP test can tell if its the salt that's a problem or not. Lets say cyanide was accidentally added to a batch of salt - what would you see in an ICP test? Scientifically:)

 

[TheHarold]

Well - what happens if (when you leave on vacation) - and the next day your EB chip fails and no power is getting to anything in the tank? And you get no email alerts - when the temperature dropped to 71 overnight? Do you think that might do it? I posted an entire thread about it - some people actually accused me of outright 'lying' - that I must have done something wrong - or that it was an entirely made up story.

It took a month - I sent the controller and the EB into Neptune - they found 2 defective chips (no programming issues) - and replaced them - and a month later I had my system back - However - in the meantime - I used a surge suppressor - and realized - I didnt need all the modules, etc that (to me were not reliable) so I just use my apex to monitor - and shut things off when I need to.

I do not see how an ICP test can tell if its the salt that's a problem or not. Lets say cyanide was accidentally added to a batch of salt - what would you see in an ICP test? Scientifically:)

If you had 100% of your devices connected to a single controller, without any water movement getting power from a different source, yes I would categorize that (in my opinion) as not set up properly.

Why would there be cyanide in salt? You think they are adding fruits and plants into the mix? (Joking, lol).

 

[MnFish1]

If you had 100% of your devices connected to a single controller, without any water movement getting power from a different source, yes I would categorize that (in my opinion) as not set up properly.

Why would there be cyanide in salt? You think they are adding fruits and plants into the mix? Lol

Im saying (and I honestly dont know why I find your tone only slightly more sarcastic than mine is)... :). The question here is 'is the device reliable'. And you're right - thats why I dont rely on a controller anymore:). it wasnt just about 'water movement' I had maxspect gyres providing flow (one of which was just plugged into a regular outlet). It was about temperatures that went from 80 to 62 with no warning from the 'controller'.

I know you like Apex - but I think your comments don't make sense - when the question is reliability - if you're saying that I need for example - a back up heater (plugged into a wall), back up pumps (not plugged into the apex), etc etc - that in itself suggests that the Apex is 'not reliable' (if it was you wouldn't need backups for everything).,,, Now dont take this the wrong way - I believe in redundant systems - and understand the need for them. But - a 1 year old multi-hundred dollar product should not have to be sent in for service 3 times. Anecdote - yes - Anecdote that is repeated multiple times on the Neptune website - yes. The Wifi is notoriously 'unreliable'.

Secondly - I'm sure you realize - that cyanide was just an example of one of MULTIPLE chemicals that could have been mistakenly added to a batch of salt that would not be picked up on an ICP test. Scientifically:)

 

[amoore311]

Neptune customer for 15 years. I've tried them all, GHL, Neptune, DigitalAquatics (lol), etc.

GHL is not even remotely worth the cost premium over Neptune products. They have just as many issues with the modules and add on products (if not more so), you just never hear about it because they sell maybe 10% of the amount customers Neptune does. You're paying a premium for modern european looking housings, nothing more.

The KH Director, shining example here, it's a dang joke. There is no magic reason Neptune absolutely crushes every single competitor sales wise. It's just that the competition simply cannot compete from a value or quality standpoint.

Ecotech looks to be making a run at them now, can't wait to see what they have up their sleeves.

 

[CC13]

Without getting or fueling the argument, I will add this and I will speak from experience.

My first tank was a 210 gallon. It was simple. Tank, Sump, return pump and calcium reactor. It worked fantastically and I knew 10% about reefing as I do now.

My second tank was a 350 gallon tank with 200 gallon sump and all the controllers, redundancy equipment, ect. I spent more time worrying and checking that everything was working properly because of how many failure points I had added onto my system. It got to a point where it wasn't fun and from a coral growth standpoint, my tank was actually less successful (my opinion), than my first tank. I scrapped all the stuff I didn't need, and made my tank and my life simple again.

Anything, with time, will fail. Period. No equipment, processor or seal will last forever. Hopefully when it fails, your home, but eventually something will fail. The more 'bells and whistles' the more potential points of failure you have.

 

[gtrider]

i've had mine up and running for about 10mo and i've had zero issues. love it.

 

[Ferrell]

I’ve had my full Apex system for almost two years, WXM, atk, Fmm with extra optical sensors. Never needed to call service. Runs excellent through fusion. No issues to speak of. With my busy life it’s been a godsend

 

[Thales]

If you go to the Neptune Systems forum - you can read it all for yourself. There are multiple 'instances' especially at the startup of the Apex 2016 - where there were bad chips, etc - a problem was initially minimized - then realized then they seemed to 'fix it'. You're talking so generally - that its impossible to answer.

My Apex 2016 failed 3 times. My apex classic has never had a problem. The question in the OP was 'apex reliability', Thats also general - if you have 10 modules you're more likely to have failures than if you have one module.

For me personally - I can't rely on it because of my personal experience... As I think I mentioned - I also will not rely on another controller either for the same reason - I'd rather pay attention to the tank myself

Lastly - its funny on the Fritz salt thread recently you many times stated Fritz salt was great - because you had never had a problem - etc etc - kind of like you're saying here implying that people that have had problems are somehow minimal based on this comment: (Or just some anecdotes from annoyed people who rant online)

But then you had a problem possibly from your Fritz salt and now I would hope you understand why people 'rant online' - because my guess based on that thread is that the number of people who have had problems with Fritz salt like you did is minimal.

All it takes is one tank crash thats due to a piece of equipment to start questioning reliability.

He was asking about data over anecdote - all we have is anecdote (and I don't think that is being looked at very closely), and in anecdote, the squeaky wheel become perceived as the reality. Of course people have had problems, but that doesn't mean there is a systemic problem.

 

[MnFish1]

He was asking about data over anecdote - all we have is anecdote (and I don't think that is being looked at very closely), and in anecdote, the squeaky wheel become perceived as the reality. Of course people have had problems, but that doesn't mean there is a systemic problem.

But there was a systemic problem - in the beginning - where apex 2016 with certain serial numbers required replacement of certain chips. There is a systemic problem with WIFI. Thats why there are multiple ways to change DNS settings, etc etc - most of which did not work in my case - and resulted in the need to purchase another 'network adapter' (since which there are no connection problems ) - but those are systemic problems. There is a systemic problem with leaking trident reagents (which - and I believe - the company says are not significant....

The only way to get 'data' - is if the company gives it to us - otherwise we do have to rely on anecdote - but the examples above are 'from the company' - and they are what lead me to believe that some of the newer apex equipment is 'less reliable' - which is the topic of the thread right? I didnt say it was bad - I didnt say dont buy it. I said - I find the product unreliable (and I believe I also said - other controllers may be just as unreliable)

 

[Thales]

Right. All we have is anecdote, and we know that upset people post more than non upset people. I almost went through this thread to do a tally of people that have had problems and people that didn't, but then I came to my senses.

 

[Kyl]

Reagents are available at the LFS now. Should have been from day one, but for whatever reason they rushed the release out. Least our local guys won't get burned anymore with $160 CAD total to buy a leaking box directly from NS via FedEx, with 50% off the next buy through NS due to said leaks, which won't happen now because they're available locally.

What great service ;)

 

[robbyg]

He was asking about data over anecdote - all we have is anecdote (and I don't think that is being looked at very closely), and in anecdote, the squeaky wheel become perceived as the reality. Of course people have had problems, but that doesn't mean there is a systemic problem.

That was the same kind of thing Aquatronica told me when I said that the customer service was really poor. They said oh we have a great product, almost no failures etc. I said yeah but the customers that are having issues setting up the controller or who need parts are having an impossible time reaching anybody. I then got the same thing about most people are fine and it's just a few people that are trying to get attention that are making up all the noise.

Well three Years Later they now know that the customers had a point. The only good thing was that it was not a quality issue but a support issue.

 

[MnFish1]

Right. All we have is anecdote, and we know that ****** off people post more than non ****** off people. I almost went through this thread to do a tally of people that have had problems and people that didn't, but then I came to my senses.

You're not getting my point - The title of the OP - Neptune apex reliability - (shocking in my experience) and he asked for comments. I agree with you - angry people post more than happy people - And - this isnt designed to be a scientific study - right? For my part - I gave my experience (positive as well as negative) - All of the problems that I have seen on the website - and discussed by the company have been resolved. My comment reflected reliability of not just Neptune - I would be worried about the reliability of anything to control my tank automatically

 

[User1]

If you go to the Neptune Systems forum - you can read it all for yourself. There are multiple 'instances' especially at the startup of the Apex 2016 - where there were bad chips, etc - a problem was initially minimized - then realized then they seemed to 'fix it'. You're talking so generally - that its impossible to answer.

My Apex 2016 failed 3 times. My apex classic has never had a problem. The question in the OP was 'apex reliability', Thats also general - if you have 10 modules you're more likely to have failures than if you have one module.

For me personally - I can't rely on it because of my personal experience... As I think I mentioned - I also will not rely on another controller either for the same reason - I'd rather pay attention to the tank myself

Lastly - its funny on the Fritz salt thread recently you many times stated Fritz salt was great - because you had never had a problem - etc etc - kind of like you're saying here implying that people that have had problems are somehow minimal based on this comment: (Or just some anecdotes from annoyed people who rant online)

But then you had a problem possibly from your Fritz salt and now I would hope you understand why people 'rant online' - because my guess based on that thread is that the number of people who have had problems with Fritz salt like you did is minimal.

All it takes is one tank crash thats due to a piece of equipment to start questioning reliability.

You are not really incorrect but you are sort of alluding to a doom and gloom situation and that isn't the case. As said earlier there is the silent majority who own products and don't pay attention to forums let alone the internet. To be honest I just submitted a ticket earlier in the week. Opposite of what is being talking about hear I received a call back in an hour or so and they spent about 20 minutes talking to me about the ticket, issue, etc. Ended up being ignorance on my side of how I thought the product should work. Great call all in all and I was extremely satisfied.

Forums are just that, forums. Ask for help, report a problem, escalate to try and get help, vent, etc. I think we both agree on how they are used. I guess what I'm saying is that we really can't measure or take the pulse of those that do not say if they have issues or happy when they don't post.

I acknowledge those here saying they have issues and are frustrated. I get it. On a unrelated topic I'm frustrated with BRS and probably won't shop there anymore. Why? Because of the whole Trident mess and their waiting list. Still haven't been called by them after singing up less than 10 minutes when their post went live. Mean to tell me I'm not on page one, top 100? And another time with their silly inventory system actually getting a trident only to lose it because I wasn't FPS fast enough keybinding or saved card information to actually go through. Instead it just hung...

Point in that bit - several of you in this thread probably have had great success with their cart, inventory, and call back. I respectively wouldn't call them out and say it is bad nor not recommend their store front.

Note: Totally unrelated I guess but just saying as an example. My BRS experience doesn't mean yours will be as such. Nor am I saying no one can be frustrated with Neptune. I wish everyone who has had problems could work it out because it would save them money. Unless they have a metric ton of it (good for them btw) it is hard to come by and I know change is expensive.

 

[MnFish1]

You are not really incorrect but you are sort of alluding to a doom and gloom situation and that isn't the case. As said earlier there is the silent majority who own products and don't pay attention to forums let alone the internet. To be honest I just submitted a ticket earlier in the week. Opposite of what is being talking about hear I received a call back in an hour or so and they spent about 20 minutes talking to me about the ticket, issue, etc. Ended up being ignorance on my side of how I thought the product should work. Great call all in all and I was extremely satisfied.

Im not alluding to doom and gloom (or at least didn't mean to). I just posted my personal experience. I wasn't saying Neptune was a bad company or anything like that - or that they make bad or poor products.

I still use my apex - my WIFI issues are resolved with the network extender, etc etc. But - I have merely resolved to not use a controller to 'automate' my system any more than I absolutely need to. So I wasnt just picking on Neptune - I would find other controllers too 'unreliable' to trust my tank to. Other people have different abilities to 'trust technology'....

 

[User1]

Im not alluding to doom and gloom (or at least didn't mean to). I just posted my personal experience. I wasn't saying Neptune was a bad company or anything like that - or that they make bad or poor products.

I still use my apex - my WIFI issues are resolved with the network extender, etc etc. But - I have merely resolved to not use a controller to 'automate' my system any more than I absolutely need to. So I wasnt just picking on Neptune - I would find other controllers too 'unreliable' to trust my tank to. Other people have different abilities to 'trust technology'....

I was keying on the "systemic problem - in the beginning" bit.

As far as trust - point taken. I know a few good stories about this after talking to a few F111 and B1 pilots. TFR is a interesting beast. Then again so are the lads who flew on the Apollo mission. Talking about trust. Lots of stories about Nixon's other speach.