New 180 Build - Mini Coop's Dream Tank

[Mini Coop]

Hello all!

Well, my 120 is still being taken care of by my in-laws since we moved in July. And now, she is finally here! The local LFS had a sale, and I got my 180 with the overflow and return kit, furniture grade stand AND lids for under $1500 all new! A deal I couldn't refuse!

We will be plumbing the sump to the basement and are looking to probably do a hybrid of the braided flexible tubing and pvc. The kit that came with the tank is already set up for the tubing, but I have only ever seen PVC only set-ups. If you can give some feedback on this, that would be great. I just want to make sure we integrate some shut-off valves.

Equipment so far:

• 2 A360W Tuna Blue kessil lights for each side, and a haylide for the center (for now until I get another kessil) Any feedback on the halyde is appreciated. I have no experience with them.
• Tunze ATO system
• Reef Octopus 152-S Protein Skimmer
• I forget what kind my programmable power heads are - they are at my in-laws in the 120 still. But they will still be fine for the 180.

Needed and advice please:

• WMD-40RLXT - 1344 GPH - IWAKI AMERICA - looking at this for external pump. I will have about 15 feet of head height. This one is rated 1344 GPH - is that enough?
  
• I was also looking at this pump VECTRA M1 DC (2000 GPH) - ECOTECH MARINE - looks like the GPH is better, and has the controller. It is about $100 more, but doesn't look like it has great reviews. Can anyone help with the comparison?

I am thinking I need an external pump because of heat transfer.

• Reef saver dry rock - looking to start over from the old tank so I don't transfer the millions of bristle worms over, and just want a fresh start. I will cook a few of my favorite pieces from the 120.
• Original Grade Ocean Direct Sand (let me know if you have other suggestions, but in my research, this one sounds pretty good). I don't want the drifting from the oolite.

Lets talk sump - HELP!!!!
Is there a sump already set up for an external pump? If not, how do I set it up? Will any brand sump do? The eshopps seem very affordable and a good system, but I don't know if they are ok for being in the basement and not just under the tank. I have also thought about getting a 100 gallon tank and having baffles made. Someone else said that a 55 gallon sump would be ok, but I also know bigger is better. My third option for a sump was a 100 gallon horse trough filled with rock for it to filter through, then into a 40 gallon breeder where the protein skimmer and refugium would be, then into the external pump.
Honestly, if there is something out there that would be a little less work and I could purchase for a decent price (trying to stay around $300) I would prefer it. Your thoughts would be appreciated!

Here are the pics of the start!! Can't wait to have you on my journey! I have followed and researched so many of you on your builds, I am so excited to start my own!

 

[tdileo]

Personally I would look at something more like a 2000-2500GPH return but that's just because I like lots of flow. But it does depend on what head pressure the individual pump can handle.
I think the rest of the list looks solid!
As for the sump it doesn't matter what you go with. I would try and have 2 tanks for the sump. Perhaps one glass one to house your equipment and a horse trough/stock pond for a nice, big refugium. I make my own sumps so can't give advice on brands.

 

[Mini Coop]

Personally I would look at something more like a 2000-2500GPH return but that's just because I like lots of flow. But it does depend on what head pressure the individual pump can handle.
I think the rest of the list looks solid!
As for the sump it doesn't matter what you go with. I would try and have 2 tanks for the sump. Perhaps one glass one to house your equipment and a horse trough/stock pond for a nice, big refugium. I make my own sumps so can't give advice on brands.

If it can do the job and save me money - advice on making my own? Size needed for a 180? If I do the big refugium, should I have a light over it? If so, what do I need? And should I have the overflow go into the filter socks before going into the refuium, or after and into the breeder with equipment?

 

[Flippers4pups]

Iwaki magnetic drive pumps are very good, but the Japanese made ones are more reliable long term.
The iwaki wmd 40rlxt has a total of 15 ft head max. This would be barely a trickle coming out if you need 15ft of head.

You need a pressure rated pump that pushes in around 20-30ft of head pressure. You want a little excess pressure so that you can waste off to a manifold to run reactors. This way you won't need another pump to run reactors. Iwaki -Japanese.

Now Panworld/blueline is an option. That's what I use. I run a 150ps. You could run a 200ps. These pumps are designed by the same guy that designed the iwakis.

1100-1300 gph would be sufficient and around 3x-5x sump to DT turn over is sufficient. Your flow in your DT should be 20x and up by using wave maker pumps. This is the way I run my basement sump system.

Sump, as large as you desire. I used a old 125 and baffled it myself the way I wanted it. Saved big bucks that way.

Check out my build thread for ideas:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/flippers-reef-125-gallon.317425/

 

[Mini Coop]

Iwaki magnetic drive pumps are very good, but the Japanese made ones are more reliable long term.
The iwaki wmd 40rlxt has a total of 15 ft head max. This would be barely a trickle coming out if you need 15ft of head.

You need a pressure rated pump that pushes in around 20-30ft of head pressure. You want a little excess pressure so that you can waste off to a manifold to run reactors. This way you won't need another pump to run reactors. Iwaki -Japanese.

Now Panworld/blueline is an option. That's what I use. I run a 150ps. You could run a 200ps. These pumps are designed by the same guy that designed the iwakis.

1100-1300 gph would be sufficient and around 3x-5x sump to DT turn over is sufficient. Your flow in your DT should be 20x and up by using wave maker pumps. This is the way I run my basement sump system.

Sump, as large as you desire. I used a old 125 and baffled it myself the way I wanted it. Saved big bucks that way.

Check out my build thread for ideas:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/flippers-reef-125-gallon.317425/

Thank you so much! A lot to think about! I appreciate the advice and will certainly be looking through your thread!!

 

[Gator1970]

One minor tip - try not to touch the MH bulbs with your bare hands - the oils on your hands can cause the bulbs to shatter when they heat up.

 

[ksfulk]

If you have the room, a 100 gallon horse trough/livestock tank is a GREAT way to make a large sump with minimal effort. I think I got mine for ~$120 or so at a Tractor Supply and had a lot of success with this for my sump on a large tank with the sump through the wall. They already have a hole drilled in them for a bulk head for you to use for an external pump and you can cut any additional holes in it that you need with a hole saw or a dremel with no issues (Or you can just run the pipes directly into the sump.

I made a PVC frame and ziptied egg crate on top of it at the right height for my skimmer to stand on, and just put a ton of live rock under the frame - no baffles or anything like that. The only thing that I did was I ran a pipe on the inside of the tank to the middle of the sump and put a strainer on it, so I wouldnt suck anything into the pump. The reason I did this is because the drains from the tank where right next to the pump return, and I wanted the water to cycle through the sump a bit more and get more contact time with the skimmer. I used a Reefflo Gold Snapper/Dart Hybrid and the pump was really nice and powerful, but it did have a bit of a noise that you could hear if you were listening to it. I tend to agree with @Flippers4pups that you'll want a bit of an oversized pump so you have the option to throttle it down if you need to.

 

[AMPM]

If it can do the job and save me money - advice on making my own? Size needed for a 180? If I do the big refugium, should I have a light over it? If so, what do I need? And should I have the overflow go into the filter socks before going into the refuium, or after and into the breeder with equipment?

 

[AMPM]

If it can do the job and save me money - advice on making my own? Size needed for a 180? If I do the big refugium, should I have a light over it? If so, what do I need? And should I have the overflow go into the filter socks before going into the refuium, or after and into the breeder with equipment?

I set mine up so my overflow from my fug goes right into my sump. It does not go into my socks because I don't want to catch all the pods that get sent through. I want those to move through the fug, into the sump and back to my display tank and frag tank

 

[AMPM]

If it can do the job and save me money - advice on making my own? Size needed for a 180? If I do the big refugium, should I have a light over it? If so, what do I need? And should I have the overflow go into the filter socks before going into the refuium, or after and into the breeder with equipment?

 

[AMPM]

If it can do the job and save me money - advice on making my own? Size needed for a 180? If I do the big refugium, should I have a light over it? If so, what do I need? And should I have the overflow go into the filter socks before going into the refuium, or after and into the breeder with equipment?

 

[AMPM]

If it can do the job and save me money - advice on making my own? Size needed for a 180? If I do the big refugium, should I have a light over it? If so, what do I need? And should I have the overflow go into the filter socks before going into the refuium, or after and into the breeder with equipment?

 

[AMPM]

If it can do the job and save me money - advice on making my own? Size needed for a 180? If I do the big refugium, should I have a light over it? If so, what do I need? And should I have the overflow go into the filter socks before going into the refuium, or after and into the breeder with equipment?

I believe it's one gallon fug for ever 10 gallon display. I think the bigger the better. I have a 30 gallon fug and if I could go back, I would have set up a 75g fug. As for lights. I would say it's a must and to run a reverse lighting schedule. I used 3 5000k 100w LED bulbs from home Depot and get great growth from my macro algae

 

[Mini Coop]

If you have the room, a 100 gallon horse trough/livestock tank is a GREAT way to make a large sump with minimal effort. I think I got mine for ~$120 or so at a Tractor Supply and had a lot of success with this for my sump on a large tank with the sump through the wall. They already have a hole drilled in them for a bulk head for you to use for an external pump and you can cut any additional holes in it that you need with a hole saw or a dremel with no issues (Or you can just run the pipes directly into the sump.

I made a PVC frame and ziptied egg crate on top of it at the right height for my skimmer to stand on, and just put a ton of live rock under the frame - no baffles or anything like that. The only thing that I did was I ran a pipe on the inside of the tank to the middle of the sump and put a strainer on it, so I wouldnt suck anything into the pump. The reason I did this is because the drains from the tank where right next to the pump return, and I wanted the water to cycle through the sump a bit more and get more contact time with the skimmer. I used a Reefflo Gold Snapper/Dart Hybrid and the pump was really nice and powerful, but it did have a bit of a noise that you could hear if you were listening to it. I tend to agree with @Flippers4pups that you'll want a bit of an oversized pump so you have the option to throttle it down if you need to.

Thank you so much for the visual! I visited a LRS to see their 180 and they had a similar set-up, although they had a HUGE external skimmer, which was overkill.

I don't know why - but I didn't get notification from these comments so I am just now seeing them!

 

[Mini Coop]

I believe it's one gallon fug for ever 10 gallon display. I think the bigger the better. I have a 30 gallon fug and if I could go back, I would have set up a 75g fug. As for lights. I would say it's a must and to run a reverse lighting schedule. I used 3 5000k 100w LED bulbs from home Depot and get great growth from my macro algae

Thank you - I am a visual learner, so this helps a TON. So - I think I have decided on a plan! But still a couple questions . . . . any help from anyone would be appreciated:

Ok - set up is going to be: 2 1" drains from the DT - come together to a "T", then into a 2" pipe for the rest of the drain under to the sump. Sump: 44 gallon long - into filter sock, open sump with ATO and Protein skimmer. This tank will be drilled on the side for another bulkhead which will then flow to the 100 gallon refugium (100 gallon trough with light and live rock). I will install a skimmer so that if I put any livestock in here, they won't get sucked into the pump, like @ksfulk referred to. This fug will be on a wood pallett or two to create the gravity flow to the PVC leading to the external pump. The external pump to DT through 1" or 1.5" PVC. Does this make sense? I am so excited! Got the 44 long today! I figure if I have the space for this, might as well do it.

The question I asked on another post is about the external. @Flippers4pups your suggestions were good. But now I am looking at around 100-125 gallons of water in the sump alone. So, I am thinking from what you said, I need at least 20 ft. head height for more power than needed, and at least 800 gph. Am I totally off?

 

[Flippers4pups]

Thank you - I am a visual learner, so this helps a TON. So - I think I have decided on a plan! But still a couple questions . . . . any help from anyone would be appreciated:

Ok - set up is going to be: 2 1" drains from the DT - come together to a "T", then into a 2" pipe for the rest of the drain under to the sump. Sump: 44 gallon long - into filter sock, open sump with ATO and Protein skimmer. This tank will be drilled on the side for another bulkhead which will then flow to the 100 gallon refugium (100 gallon trough with light and live rock). I will install a skimmer so that if I put any livestock in here, they won't get sucked into the pump, like @ksfulk referred to. This fug will be on a wood pallett or two to create the gravity flow to the PVC leading to the external pump. The external pump to DT through 1" or 1.5" PVC. Does this make sense? I am so excited! Got the 44 long today! I figure if I have the space for this, might as well do it.

The question I asked on another post is about the external. @Flippers4pups your suggestions were good. But now I am looking at around 100-125 gallons of water in the sump alone. So, I am thinking from what you said, I need at least 20 ft. head height for more power than needed, and at least 800 gph. Am I totally off?

You need to have as much straight vertical rise to the DT as possible to avoid head loss in your plumbing. Avoid 90 degree elbows and use 45 degree elbows when possible.

Considering power usage and the distance needed, plus having extra flow to run reactors, I’d go with at least a Iwaki md-55 RLT or Panworld 150ps. The iwaki md -70 RLT or Panworld 250ps is a major jump in power usage, but goes up in available flow.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Here’s some pictures of my drains. Each side, One is for constant flow to the sump and the other is a emergency drain. 1 1/4” pipe. My 125’s over flows has two bulkheads per side. One was meant for the return and the other for a drain. I took my return up the middle of the DT and teed off each end with lock line.

 

[Mini Coop]

Ordered TODAY and dropped a LOAD at BRS!!! Needed done!

PanWorld 200 PS pump - yeah!! Decision made! Thank you @Flippers4pups for your help with this and everyone else who contributed!
Also ordered 120 lb of reef saver dry rock from @Bulk Reef Supply along with 15 lb of tonga shelf, a 10 lb. bag of rubble and 5 lb of small branches. (didn't want too much). I will get some of the complex branch rock when they get it back in stock.

Suggestions on what glue or epoxy you use for stacking rock? All of my rock from before is loose. I didn't secure any of it!

 

[Flippers4pups]

Ordered TODAY and dropped a LOAD at BRS!!! Needed done!

PanWorld 200 PS pump - yeah!! Decision made! Thank you @Flippers4pups for your help with this and everyone else who contributed!
Also ordered 120 lb of reef saver dry rock from @Bulk Reef Supply along with 15 lb of tonga shelf, a 10 lb. bag of rubble and 5 lb of small branches. (didn't want too much). I will get some of the complex branch rock when they get it back in stock.

Suggestions on what glue or epoxy you use for stacking rock? All of my rock from before is loose. I didn't secure any of it!

Glad to have helped.

Securing rock can be done many ways. Rock structures that are cemented together can be a real pain to move and tuff to move around. With that said, if doing this consider making three structures separate structures and link them with loose pieces.

What I’ve done in the past was stack my rock the way I wanted and then one piece at a time, drill a 1/4” hole with a masonry bit and into the adjoining rock. Taking driveway markers that are made of fiberglass rod, like from Home Depot or Lowe’s, and cut pieces of rod to link the rock together like a puzzle.

This works well, but can be a little loose and rocks can shift.

My tank this time I did just that with the fiberglass rod, but also cemented them together with quikrete hydraulic cement. This can be bought at lowes or Home Depot. It sets fast and can only be made in small batches and applied quickly to the rock joints. You have roughly five minutes per batch to apply it before it starts to harden. Marco cement is very similar cement.

The fiberglass rods are inert and the cement once fully cured is inert as well. No issues with PH or contamination from the cement.

There are other ways to glue rock together that I haven’t used, so I’ll leave that to others to comment on.

 

[Mini Coop]

Glad to have helped.

Securing rock can be done many ways. Rock structures that are cemented together can be a real pain to move and tuff to move around. With that said, if doing this consider making three structures separate structures and link them what the heck some loose pieces.

What I’ve done in the past was stack my rock the way I wanted and then one piece at a time, drill a 1/4” hole with a masonry bit and into the adjoining rock. Taking driveway markers that are made of fiberglass rod, like from Home Depot or Lowe’s, and cut pieces of rod to link the rock together like a puzzle.

This works well, but can be a little loose and rocks can shift.

My tank this time I did just that with the fiberglass rod, but also cemented them together with quikrete hydraulic cement. This can be bought at lowes or Home Depot. It sets fast and can only be made in small batches and applied quickly to the rock joints. You have roughly five minutes per batch to apply it before it starts to harden. Marco cement is very similar cement.

The fiberglass rods are inert and the cement once fully cured is inert as well. No issues with PH or contamination from the cement.

There are other ways to glue rock together that I haven’t used, so I’ll leave that to others to comment on.

That is a great scape!! Researching designs now! Thanks for the advice!! I can't wait to start playing with the new rock! Using the rock from my 120 in the sump for the 180