Bryson.bobby
Valuable Member
I made the same mistake adding fish b4 the the tank was cycled. I lost a red toothed trigger n a puffer.
New and need help asap
- Thread starter Brandong91
- Start date
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RobW
Valuable Member
I do agree with @lolmatt about the canister filter situation. Look into what he described. Also like he said... go on YouTube and watch the 52 weeks of reefing videos. They're a great help to new comers to the hobby. Should give you a good baseline of knowledge to get yo pointed in the right direction.
Fair enough, for sure there are plenty of examples of successful tanks running canisters, but it seems like a hard maintenance heavy option versus a couple hob items imo.
Sump 10/10 times for me, drilled with bean animal or herbie drains, but that seemed to be beyond the scope of this thread
Michael Gilbreath
we all have are ways
first sorry most people come off wrong trying to help typing does not beat talking on some topics there trying to help. as said 4 clowns can get along for awhile but as they grow one will become the female and boss she will pick a mate that's when trouble begins unless in bigger tank as for ammonia level as said tank is still cycling with 4 clowns the bioload on it jumped know it has to catch up Fritz turbo start would help if you can get it or if you have any friends close that could house the clowns tell if finishes cycling then put clowns back in watch them when two pair up watch if they start picking on others return the other and see if LFS will buy back or give you store credit .
I just started too. I watched a lot of videos and it can be pretty overwhelming. There are some very sophisticated setups out there, but the 2 most important things I have learned are 1. Things happen very slow with saltwater. I have read about people cycling their tank 4 to 6 months before adding a fish. It's very hard for me to be patient but I'm trying. 2. A tank does not have to be super sophisticated to be a stable tank. Read posts on here. Ask questions on here. In my 2 weeks or so on here I haven't experienced some of the smart butt remarks that you have end this post. Dont judge this overall site based on those. It sounds like your lfs does not specialize in saltwater. I would not ask them for any advice. I've looked at a lot of sites and this is by far the most helpful. You will learn a lot here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-supreme-guide-to-setting-up-a-saltwater-reef-aquarium.138750/
Good luck
RobW
Valuable Member
I think our remarks are geared more towards a lfs taking advantage of a new hobbyist more than being mean.
Yeah definitely, sad to see the animals suffer due to what op saw as valid advice. Hopefully everyone will come out ok and op will have a lot of resources to learn from and avoid these sorts of issues with less hardy fish. Many non clowns would have perished by now in 2.0 ammonia.
After you sort out this hurdle, I encourage you to return here and ask for fish/stocking suggestions. You will get a great response and a ton of great ideas.
After you sort out this hurdle, I encourage you to return here and ask for fish/stocking suggestions. You will get a great response and a ton of great ideas.
Mike.P
Well-Known Member
I would be willing to bet that you're right... Let's not be so hard on him though; many people have come across pictures of a beautiful saltwater tank, or saw one setup at a business, and decided that they wanted one.
Then they went to a Petco, or maybe even a small/struggling/unscrupulous/ignorant LFS, and the people there took them for a ride, told them that it's not complicated at all, and were more than happy to sell them a bunch of high margin crap.
I think we've all been through one variation of that, or another. I got my first saltwater tank 15 years ago, at the age of twenty. I knew literally nothing, went to the closest LFS, that has since (very much deservedly) gone out of business. Essentially the same thing happened to me, as to the OP.
The biggest struggle, when starting out, is in not even knowing what questions to ask. But that's what we're here for.
Welcome to the forum, we're glad to have you! I'm sorry if some people came across as berating you, but I think they all have good intentions; sometimes we all fall into the trap of assuming that everyone should know certain things, and then unload with a barrage of instructions and questions that you probably can't make sense of.
Take a breath, for starters. Yes, this is a tough spot to be in, it sucks, and I'm sure you're panicking. It's okay... It can be fixed. First, return the Microbe Lift if you can. Fritz bacteria is good, as some others have mentioned. My personal recommendation is to get two large bottles of Instant Ocean Bio Spira, which should be locally available, and put them both in. Then order a bottle of Coralline in a Bottle, which is packed fresh, and should be delivered in two days.
Find another home for two of the clowns. Maybe even ask the store where you got them if they'll take them all, and at least hold them for you until the tank is properly cycled.
How much rock and sand do you have? Without a sump, I would say you need at least 80 lbs of rock, and 80-100 lbs of sand. If you have less than that, add more to allow for more surface area for bacteria to colonize. I would also highly suggest getting Marine Pure ceramic spheres, and putting as many in the tank as you can. Maybe hide them behind and around your rock. Those will host huge bacteria colonies.
This is a good starting point, and then we can explore additional options, and filtration, depending on your budget. Don't give up, don't be afraid to ask questions, and just take it one step at a time. Everyone in this hobby has made mistakes, and ended up in a crisis situation. Don't feel bad, it'll pass, and you can go forward armed with new knowledge. ;Woot
Last edited:
ccombs
Valuable Member
Hey! Welcome to the forum. It can be overwhelming to get so much advice at once. Let me try to help you out here. Also, please know we are all here to help, no judgement.
Immediate Needs:
1) Current Ammonia Level and Test Kit Used (True Ammonia vs TAN are 2 different things and an advanced topic)
2) Please post all current test readings, that will help us know about your cycle
Long Term Needs:
1) Once ammonia is in check, we can then have a discussion about the 4 clowns
2) Proper testing/what tests to use
3) Future stocking considerations
4) How to learn who to trust
The immediate needs will help us keep your fish alive (which is our first priority). The long term needs will help your tank thrive, and help you make great decisions long term!
Immediate Needs:
1) Current Ammonia Level and Test Kit Used (True Ammonia vs TAN are 2 different things and an advanced topic)
2) Please post all current test readings, that will help us know about your cycle
Long Term Needs:
1) Once ammonia is in check, we can then have a discussion about the 4 clowns
2) Proper testing/what tests to use
3) Future stocking considerations
4) How to learn who to trust
The immediate needs will help us keep your fish alive (which is our first priority). The long term needs will help your tank thrive, and help you make great decisions long term!
wesman42
Valuable Member
Some of these comments are just wow. Holy freaking crap Batman are they just out there.
What kind of example does it set when people jump down the throat of someone just trying to get the correct information? Shame on you.
He made a post asking for help, not billy bob 4 beers in.
What kind of example does it set when people jump down the throat of someone just trying to get the correct information? Shame on you.
He made a post asking for help, not billy bob 4 beers in.
He didn’t ridicule you
He ridiculed the petstore
Yes, we have all been beginners. And the majority have been taken advantage of by ignorant or money hungry pet stores like he described
Someone selling you 4 clowns is one giveaway. Them mentoring you to put them into a cycling tank at two weeks is another.
No one likes to be taken advantage of. The pet store did that. No one here did. Focus your indignation and ire there. Not here.
I personally have no problem fish cycling a tank. I just wouldn’t do it with clowns.
On third thought
Maybe I should just stay out of “I am new and I need help” threads. Ya, I think I am not going into them anymore.
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Pntbll687
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Op,
What are your current ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate readings?
If ammonia is over 1ppm then grab a bottle of seachem prime, it will help knock down the ammonia. You need to do this since ammonia is to toxic to fish. I don't want to see you lose your first fish.
2nd thing is to get a bottle of nitrifying bacteria. Fritz, Dr Tim's, bio spiral, ect... All will work, some faster than others.
The biggest issue you're going to have it's cycling the tank. You need ammonia to feed the bacteria, but don't want to get it too high because it will kill fish. There's going to be a lot of testing in your best future.
If you can, turn off the UV on the canister for the time being. You don't want to fry up the good bacteria that your adding.
And another thought on the canister. It's not as bad as everyone makes it seem, the key is to set it up properly and perform routine maintenance on it. Check the manual or online for how the water flow goes through it, then set up the media 1) mechanical, 2) biological, 3) chemical. Check out "the pond guru" on YouTube, he has tons of videos on how to properly set up a canister filter.
And keep asking questions! We were all new once, and I've probably made more "mistakes" than I can remember
What are your current ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate readings?
If ammonia is over 1ppm then grab a bottle of seachem prime, it will help knock down the ammonia. You need to do this since ammonia is to toxic to fish. I don't want to see you lose your first fish.
2nd thing is to get a bottle of nitrifying bacteria. Fritz, Dr Tim's, bio spiral, ect... All will work, some faster than others.
The biggest issue you're going to have it's cycling the tank. You need ammonia to feed the bacteria, but don't want to get it too high because it will kill fish. There's going to be a lot of testing in your best future.
If you can, turn off the UV on the canister for the time being. You don't want to fry up the good bacteria that your adding.
And another thought on the canister. It's not as bad as everyone makes it seem, the key is to set it up properly and perform routine maintenance on it. Check the manual or online for how the water flow goes through it, then set up the media 1) mechanical, 2) biological, 3) chemical. Check out "the pond guru" on YouTube, he has tons of videos on how to properly set up a canister filter.
And keep asking questions! We were all new once, and I've probably made more "mistakes" than I can remember
RobW
Valuable Member
Everyone is so easily offended. Sorry if text or typing comes across or reads harsh. Not my intention. My apologies to the new comer if I made you feel like you were being ridiculed. @Brandong91 I'm actually a pretty nice and easy going guy. Maybe I did come off a little strong. You said you needed help asap. I started firing off a bunch of questions. Also you said that some of your stuff was perfect. Far too many times I have seen people say that. Then when they post the actual readings we find out otherwise. I was new once too. I didnt do everything right in the beginning. Frankly I probably still dont. Lol! Anyway, you have my sincere apologies for coming off as a hard @#$. Welcome to R2R. Please feel free to ask as many questions as you wish. There are lots of great people here that are super knowledgeable.
w2inc
Active Member
Welcome to the forum. Thanks for giving us the chance to help you. High ammonia this early on is normal. It is also deadly at a certain point. Prime can shift it to ammonium which is basically not toxic. It will help protect your fish. It will not help with your tank cycling. Research tells me that it will probably cause your tank to take a little longer to cycle, but that is ok. It will still happen.
There is too much to know for anyone to get it all right on the first round. There are plenty of tanks running canister filters. There is a lot to learn about as you make choices as to how you want to filter your system. You are fine. If any one needs to scoff about filter choices, they should do it at me and all the other reefers that were keeping saltwater fish in tanks with under gravel filters back in the 80's. Canister filters are handy to have around. Even if you decide to take another direction with your filtration you will still find plenty of uses for your canister filter. It is a fine place to keep activated carbon or add to the circulation of your tank among other things.
As you move on in the hobby you will learn that there are pros and cons to every set up and be able to make your own choices about what works best for your set up. If you want to be able to accommodate more livestock you may want to look at more filter options. On a set up like yours I think a protein skimmer is a really good addition. I can not recommend a specific one, but I like the ones that sit inside the tank. The ones that hang off the back don't always have a way to prevent them from overflowing onto your floor. Post a question on it and see what others think.
I don't absolutely know that 4 clown fish is too many for your tank right now. No one actually does and there is always an exception to the rule. This is something people guess at based on what has worked in the past. I have gotten away with a much bigger bioload during a tank cycle. It took a lot of testing and a lot of water changing. I personally would be more comfortable with fewer fish in the tank until the ammonia disappears.
It is not like the game is over. Clown fish don't have the same demands that other saltwater fish have. You can lessen the ammonia spike. One thing that helps is to cut back on how much nutrient you put in the tank. Possibly stop feeding all together. Healthy fish can handle a couple weeks without food. I have had seahorses hunger strike for 10 days at a time and come back just fine. A couple days wont hurt them. It will keep your ammonia from rising faster.
Look around the tank for anything that could rot or decay and remove it. Check your filter pad in the canister and see if there is a bunch of waste collected in it. If so, rinse it out. It is ok to clean it off with tap water. The biofilm that nitrifying bacteria form handle it just fine. Leave the Biofilter media in your canister alone unless there is uneaten food in it.
It is good to do water changes even when your tank is cycling. It will dilute the ammonia levels. As long as there is any ammonia the bacteria have food. Change all you want. You wont get it too clean. Bacteria is going to grow in water no matter what you do. It is growing at an exponential rate and will catch up soon.
There are not many shortcuts. The kind of bacteria you need has to have a constant supply of oxygenated water. If an additive has been sealed up in a container for more than 24 hours then there is probably not any bacteria (or spores) you need in there. The bacteria you need is already in your tank. You just need more of it. If you want to increase your amount of bacteria immediately, here are some options:
Cheatomorphia algae can help. You would want a good sized chunk. It has tons of surface area covered with bacteria. It also feeds on the things you want gone.
Cured live rock is a really good option.
If you have a friend with a saltwater tank, you may be able to trade them your new bio media for some seasoned media from their tank.
If you live by the ocean you can grab a couple rocks.
I have purchased live clams from my local asian market and put them in high flow areas of my tank to act as a jump start. They have bacteria on their shells and can use some waste products as food. You need to be able to see them and be sure they are living. They can die and rot in just a few hours and that would make things worse. It can be a little bit of a loose cannon. You will add all kinds of things with it. I had not thought of it, but they probably would sell a hand full of crushed coral from their filter that you could stick in yours and be off to a running start as well.
My best advice is to just wait, don't add anything that can turn to waste and do some water changes.
Cycling a tank is hard because it is a brand new toy and all you want to do is get stuff in it. It is like a getting Christmas present that you cant play with until February. It is hard on fish and some times you lose them. Not all fish are strong and healthy. Even the pet store owner loses fish some times when a tank is cycling.
I love my tanks. All 7 of them. I am sure you will love yours too.
There is too much to know for anyone to get it all right on the first round. There are plenty of tanks running canister filters. There is a lot to learn about as you make choices as to how you want to filter your system. You are fine. If any one needs to scoff about filter choices, they should do it at me and all the other reefers that were keeping saltwater fish in tanks with under gravel filters back in the 80's. Canister filters are handy to have around. Even if you decide to take another direction with your filtration you will still find plenty of uses for your canister filter. It is a fine place to keep activated carbon or add to the circulation of your tank among other things.
As you move on in the hobby you will learn that there are pros and cons to every set up and be able to make your own choices about what works best for your set up. If you want to be able to accommodate more livestock you may want to look at more filter options. On a set up like yours I think a protein skimmer is a really good addition. I can not recommend a specific one, but I like the ones that sit inside the tank. The ones that hang off the back don't always have a way to prevent them from overflowing onto your floor. Post a question on it and see what others think.
I don't absolutely know that 4 clown fish is too many for your tank right now. No one actually does and there is always an exception to the rule. This is something people guess at based on what has worked in the past. I have gotten away with a much bigger bioload during a tank cycle. It took a lot of testing and a lot of water changing. I personally would be more comfortable with fewer fish in the tank until the ammonia disappears.
It is not like the game is over. Clown fish don't have the same demands that other saltwater fish have. You can lessen the ammonia spike. One thing that helps is to cut back on how much nutrient you put in the tank. Possibly stop feeding all together. Healthy fish can handle a couple weeks without food. I have had seahorses hunger strike for 10 days at a time and come back just fine. A couple days wont hurt them. It will keep your ammonia from rising faster.
Look around the tank for anything that could rot or decay and remove it. Check your filter pad in the canister and see if there is a bunch of waste collected in it. If so, rinse it out. It is ok to clean it off with tap water. The biofilm that nitrifying bacteria form handle it just fine. Leave the Biofilter media in your canister alone unless there is uneaten food in it.
It is good to do water changes even when your tank is cycling. It will dilute the ammonia levels. As long as there is any ammonia the bacteria have food. Change all you want. You wont get it too clean. Bacteria is going to grow in water no matter what you do. It is growing at an exponential rate and will catch up soon.
There are not many shortcuts. The kind of bacteria you need has to have a constant supply of oxygenated water. If an additive has been sealed up in a container for more than 24 hours then there is probably not any bacteria (or spores) you need in there. The bacteria you need is already in your tank. You just need more of it. If you want to increase your amount of bacteria immediately, here are some options:
Cheatomorphia algae can help. You would want a good sized chunk. It has tons of surface area covered with bacteria. It also feeds on the things you want gone.
Cured live rock is a really good option.
If you have a friend with a saltwater tank, you may be able to trade them your new bio media for some seasoned media from their tank.
If you live by the ocean you can grab a couple rocks.
I have purchased live clams from my local asian market and put them in high flow areas of my tank to act as a jump start. They have bacteria on their shells and can use some waste products as food. You need to be able to see them and be sure they are living. They can die and rot in just a few hours and that would make things worse. It can be a little bit of a loose cannon. You will add all kinds of things with it. I had not thought of it, but they probably would sell a hand full of crushed coral from their filter that you could stick in yours and be off to a running start as well.
My best advice is to just wait, don't add anything that can turn to waste and do some water changes.
Cycling a tank is hard because it is a brand new toy and all you want to do is get stuff in it. It is like a getting Christmas present that you cant play with until February. It is hard on fish and some times you lose them. Not all fish are strong and healthy. Even the pet store owner loses fish some times when a tank is cycling.
I love my tanks. All 7 of them. I am sure you will love yours too.
Mike.P
Well-Known Member
That's brilliant! I have never thought to use live clams from the market this way. And yes... Tanks can be ran off of a canister just fine. You need to pay more attention to them, but they can work well. My first "big" tank was a 90 gallon, that I ran for years on a large Fluval canister.
TheBackAndForth
Active Member
Dude, you're good. People are being kinda rude, but clownfish are just cheap tough damselfish that are bred and have no environmental impact. Honestly, the way clowns are bred now, 4 is probably fine. If not, you're still fine for like 6 months until they grow bigger, then just return your two least favourites and get a coral beauty angelfish or hawkfish or something instead that you like.
Man, it's just water changes. Change the water until your tank finished cycling, use prime, and feed them only once a day enough they all get a couple pellets and no more. no food on the sand. Do that and you'll have success.
gotta keep the cannister filter clean and media changed frequently. that's certainly doable. I'd use a cheap HOB carbon filter with carbon bags myself (like 30 bucks), or an in tank protein skimmer would be good to have too. Dont buy any other filtration equipment rn. I wasted so much money in my early days on equipment i dont need.
If the little buggers die, just try again in a month when the tank cycles.
ENJOY YOUR NEW FRIENDS!
Man, it's just water changes. Change the water until your tank finished cycling, use prime, and feed them only once a day enough they all get a couple pellets and no more. no food on the sand. Do that and you'll have success.
gotta keep the cannister filter clean and media changed frequently. that's certainly doable. I'd use a cheap HOB carbon filter with carbon bags myself (like 30 bucks), or an in tank protein skimmer would be good to have too. Dont buy any other filtration equipment rn. I wasted so much money in my early days on equipment i dont need.
If the little buggers die, just try again in a month when the tank cycles.
ENJOY YOUR NEW FRIENDS!
Mastiffsrule
Where ever you go, there you are, so be nice 2 you
Hi everyone. Been watching, want to see if we can get an update from @Brandong91 hopefully the rocky start didn’t discourage him. No update since last night.
Personal Side note in general
Reading the posts after the train kinda got off track was awesome. Everyone really came together and showed what a great place with great people this is. Just wanted to give my 2cent, that’s how great I thought u all are.
Let’s get an update from the OP
And.....
What’s up with that?. Good enough in the 80s so say today. You really want to laugh, I used to use this. It bobbed up and down in the water so it was best guess
Personal Side note in general
Reading the posts after the train kinda got off track was awesome. Everyone really came together and showed what a great place with great people this is. Just wanted to give my 2cent, that’s how great I thought u all are.
Let’s get an update from the OP
And.....
What’s up with that?
. Good enough in the 80s so say today. You really want to laugh, I used to use this. It bobbed up and down in the water so it was best guessTheBackAndForth
Active Member
Hi everyone. Been watching, want to see if we can get an update from @Brandong91 hopefully the rocky start didn’t discourage him. No update since last night.
Personal Side note in general
Reading the posts after the train kinda got off track was awesome. Everyone really came together and showed what a great place with great people this is. Just wanted to give my 2cent, that’s how great I thought u all are.
Let’s get an update from the OP
And.....
What’s up with that?
I have a fancy one. My little plastic one is accurate though and reads the same though, and I like pushing it under water to make bubbles... so it's what use.
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