New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost

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chriso316

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Trying to work out this recipe for making 100,000ppm of Alk and Calcium in each solution. Per litre.

Could someone more chemistry inclined lend a hand?

Cheers!
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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Trying to work out this recipe for making 100,000ppm of Alk and Calcium in each solution. Per litre.

Could someone more chemistry inclined lend a hand?

Cheers!
That doesn’t make sense. What does 100,000 ppm of alkalinity mean to you?

You can scale the recipe to different concentrations by adding more or less water.
 

chriso316

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That doesn’t make sense. What does 100,000 ppm of alkalinity mean to you?

You can scale the recipe to different concentrations by adding more or less water.
100,000ppm solution would enable me to add 1ml/100L = 1ppm increase of Alk or Cal.

To make up 1L of 2part at 100,000ppm I got,
Calcium-
391g Calcium chloride
204g Magnesium Chloride

Alk-
116.5g Sodium Hydroxide or
156g sodium Carbonate
28.3g Sodium Sulfate

Is this correct?
Thanks
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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Still not clear to me you understand alk. Do you really measure it in ppm? If so, that is ppm calcium carbonate equivalents. You certainly can make sodium hydroxide solutions to any concentration you want, but I think it makes more sense to design then for equal volumes dosed than pegged to equal “concentrations” which are not equal in any meaningful way. The calcium part at 100k ppm is fine, then match the alk part to it by scaling both parts of the recipe posted in this thread.
 
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I tried this new recipe in my tank, but I have reverted to using sodium bicarb (Recipe #2) because the pH went too high with my alk demand (~4dKH/day in a 90-gallon). The high pH led to more precipitation and the Alkatronic detected drops in alk and added sodium bicarb buffer to compensate - but my calcium dropped a LOT (measured approx 220ppm). Caught it early before any major issues (hopefully), but thought I would share the feedback.

The dose of approx 260ml/day was split into 144 doses/day (ie, every 10mins). I wasn't monitoring pH (just alk), so it took me a moment to realise that the rapid increase in alk consumption detected via the Alkatronic was not actually consumption but precipitation. I had removed my calcium reactor for cleaning, so had been dialling in the dose and assumed the increase in uptake was due to the higher pH but didn't account for how high the pH actually was. Upon noticing a fine white dusting on pumps and the bottom glass, I immediately tested pH. With a freshly calibrated pH probe on my profilux, I measured 8.8 pH... Snails were lethargic, sps had reduced polyp extension and my RBTA had shrunk/shrivelled, but my tridacnae seemed fine. I immediately switched my alk solution for the original Recipe #2, and I also gently fed some CO2 directly into the skimmer to bring the pH slowly back down. Luckily no losses seem to have resulted. I am bringing the calcium level back up over the course of the next 7-10 days.

The issue also only arose when I took my calcium reactor offline for cleaning. Lesson learnt!
 

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Is the sodium hydroxide version the same as 'Randys Recipe 2' in this reef calculator? Its way off, and it mentions it being a pH LOWEREING effect, so I imagine its not the same...

If I'm mixing the sodium hydroxide version, which one should I choose? I mix at 1.5x and have tried both B-IONIC on the list, but those both seem WAY off as well. For example, one tells me dose 555, the other 139. I dosed 75 (just to be safe) into a fresh mix of saltwater and it was still over a full Dkh above my goal.
 

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Did somebody experienced this issue with standard air tube ? It's not the silicone one but the more rigid one:

20191021_213512.jpg


This clogged the tube and this jelly stuff, if in contact with coral burn them completely if not taken out after minutes...

I'm really disappointed but a KH drop because of this clogged tube and this jelly is a no go for a stable system for IMHO
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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Did somebody experienced this issue with standard air tube ? It's not the silicone one but the more rigid one:

20191021_213512.jpg


This clogged the tube and this jelly stuff, if in contact with coral burn them completely if not taken out after minutes...

I'm really disappointed but a KH drop because of this clogged tube and this jelly is a no go for a stable system for IMHO
the product needs to be added slowly to a high turbulence area. Diluting with more fresh more helps too. The goo is likely magnesium hydroxide.
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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Is the sodium hydroxide version the same as 'Randys Recipe 2' in this reef calculator? Its way off, and it mentions it being a pH LOWEREING effect, so I imagine its not the same...

If I'm mixing the sodium hydroxide version, which one should I choose? I mix at 1.5x and have tried both B-IONIC on the list, but those both seem WAY off as well. For example, one tells me dose 555, the other 139. I dosed 75 (just to be safe) into a fresh mix of saltwater and it was still over a full Dkh above my goal.
randys recipe 1 is the same potency, not pH
 

hart24601

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Did somebody experienced this issue with standard air tube ? It's not the silicone one but the more rigid one:

20191021_213512.jpg


This clogged the tube and this jelly stuff, if in contact with coral burn them completely if not taken out after minutes...

I'm really disappointed but a KH drop because of this clogged tube and this jelly is a no go for a stable system for IMHO
I have had the airline discolor, but not clog. Mine is into my sump where I have a powerhead pointing up at the surface where the dosing drips into the water to mix it up.
 

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I tried this new recipe in my tank, but I have reverted to using sodium bicarb (Recipe #2) because the pH went too high with my alk demand (~4dKH/day in a 90-gallon). The high pH led to more precipitation and the Alkatronic detected drops in alk and added sodium bicarb buffer to compensate - but my calcium dropped a LOT (measured approx 220ppm). Caught it early before any major issues (hopefully), but thought I would share the feedback.

The dose of approx 260ml/day was split into 144 doses/day (ie, every 10mins). I wasn't monitoring pH (just alk), so it took me a moment to realise that the rapid increase in alk consumption detected via the Alkatronic was not actually consumption but precipitation. I had removed my calcium reactor for cleaning, so had been dialling in the dose and assumed the increase in uptake was due to the higher pH but didn't account for how high the pH actually was. Upon noticing a fine white dusting on pumps and the bottom glass, I immediately tested pH. With a freshly calibrated pH probe on my profilux, I measured 8.8 pH... Snails were lethargic, sps had reduced polyp extension and my RBTA had shrunk/shrivelled, but my tridacnae seemed fine. I immediately switched my alk solution for the original Recipe #2, and I also gently fed some CO2 directly into the skimmer to bring the pH slowly back down. Luckily no losses seem to have resulted. I am bringing the calcium level back up over the course of the next 7-10 days.

The issue also only arose when I took my calcium reactor offline for cleaning. Lesson learnt!
This happened to me as well. My calcium didnt drop but my PH was climbing high causing more consumption (or precipitation). The more sodium hydroxide I dosed, the higher the PH, more consumption, causing a snowball effect. I didnt have any visual precipitaton on my pumps. My sand was hardening but, according to folks that know, it could be precipitation or bacterial. I stopped using it and just rely on my calrx for cal/alk and co2 scrubber for my ph.
 

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the product needs to be added slowly to a high turbulence area. Diluting with more fresh more helps too. The goo is likely magnesium hydroxide.
Yes, but here it's different from what's usually dosed, it's completely solid, i can hold it between my fingers, and it stays like this in the tank before getting broken by the blade of the pump
This clogged completely the dosing pump and happens each month or so

When i change the tube and start dosing, it makes a goo but more or less dissolved instantly

Anyway, i'll put some in silicone tube and those "hard" airline tubing and seal them for a month and i'll see the result!
Maybe i should just use regular silicone tube?


I have had the airline discolor, but not clog. Mine is into my sump where I have a powerhead pointing up at the surface where the dosing drips into the water to mix it up.
Yes as i said, it's really different from the precipitation(i that correct?) when it touch water, it's a slime into the tube.

And far worst, i don't have a sump so it was dosed directly in the tank, right on top of the powerhead so no issue for that.
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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What do you mean it clogged the dosing pump? It is happening upstream of the pump? There should be no precipitation that far up the tube. Is there any solid in the mixing container? No idea what that solid would be. Sodium hydroxide in water won’t precipitate. Anything else in it? Is it open to the air so carbon dioxide is freely entering? That might precipitate sodium carbonate if you have made this solution highly concentrated.
 

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It's inside the whole tubing, from the beginning to the end.
I dose only a small amount by now, about 4ml/day.

Absolutely no solid amount on the bottom, I flush it out and nothing in at all.
It's a hdpe container, the bottom was totally clean, the cap I drilled with a 5mm to push in the 6mm tube and 1mm hole to let the air in.

I've found the connector to fail at some point, maybe they failed and let some air in, and precipitated the solution?

I've tried some connector but can't find any with a special chemical documents.
 
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I've all the ingredients but only have 5-litre jugs on hand. Would there be any problem to simply increase the amount of each of the chemicals by 1.32 (3.785 litres = 1 gallon, 3.785 x 1.32 = 5.0 ) and add RO water to total 5 litres?
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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I've all the ingredients but only have 5-litre jugs on hand. Would there be any problem to simply increase the amount of each of the chemicals by 1.32 (3.785 litres = 1 gallon, 3.785 x 1.32 = 5.0 ) and add RO water to total 5 litres?
That should be fine.

Make sure the jugs are not polycarbonate. They won't handle the alk portion.
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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It's regular air tubing, not the silicon but more rigid one
I'm not sure what sorts of flexible tubing might be bad, but silicone should be OK, as would polyethylene. Some tubing types may discolor but that doesn't necessarily mean they are unsuitable. Silicone might discolor, for example.
 
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