New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost

[wattson]

very good thread,,nice improvement in PH..
curious though,,as I have all zoas/palys,,I do not dose Cal/Mag very often at all but seeking a new Alk recipe to raise PH..
would I be able to just use the Alk part of this recipe for Ph raising effects only??

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

very good thread,,nice improvement in PH..
curious though,,as I have all zoas/palys,,I do not dose Cal/Mag very often at all but seeking a new Alk recipe to raise PH..
would I be able to just use the Alk part of this recipe for Ph raising effects only??

Yes, but it is unlikely you are consuming much alkalinity without consuming calcium. You do not need hard corals to have a substantial amount of calcium and alk consumption due to coralline algae, abiotic precipitation, and other processes.

 

[pwilliaml]

A little off topic, but in regards to dosing, I keep my dosing lines about 2 inches above the waterline in my return pump section, and because of this, the lines start to collect solidified residues of my dosing chemicals. Would it be bad if I made the lines longer so they dose underwater? I'm not worried about auto siphon as I have peristaltic pumps for dosing. Thanks.

 

[Mindi]

Well... I am the party pooper. I have reconsidered my experience, recalibrated my pH Ecotester, and given it more time and I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that my switch to the NaOH recipe has produced little or no increase in pH after 4 weeks.
I am measuring 1200 - 1300, and am seeing 7.9 on my tester. Before I switched formulae I was running Soda Lime so I dont have a recent certain naked pH base to compare...but I believe my long term figure to be 7.8-7.9. So I believe that I am seeing a change of 0.1 maximum and possibly not that as I am probably within the normal variation of the device at 0.1 change.
Randy can this Alk recipe be made for a bit more pH boost...?

No problem with Alk and Ca in new recipes, both perfect and consistent in effect with the old recipe 1. It is just pH which I cant seem to beat. Mag now fixed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

A little off topic, but in regards to dosing, I keep my dosing lines about 2 inches above the waterline in my return pump section, and because of this, the lines start to collect solidified residues of my dosing chemicals. Would it be bad if I made the lines longer so they dose underwater? I'm not worried about auto siphon as I have peristaltic pumps for dosing. Thanks.

Yes, that would be much worse underwater. you will potentially precipitate insoluble calcium carbonate in the tubing, especially the alk part.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Well... I am the party pooper. I have reconsidered my experience, recalibrated my pH Ecotester, and given it more time and I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that my switch to the NaOH recipe has produced little or no increase in pH after 4 weeks.
I am measuring 1200 - 1300, and am seeing 7.9 on my tester. Before I switched formulae I was running Soda Lime so I dont have a recent certain naked pH base to compare...but I believe my long term figure to be 7.8-7.9. So I believe that I am seeing a change of 0.1 maximum and possibly not that as I am probably within the normal variation of the device at 0.1 change.
Randy can this Alk recipe be made for a bit more pH boost...?

No problem with Alk and Ca in new recipes, both perfect and consistent in effect with the old recipe 1. It is just pH which I cant seem to beat. Mag now fixed.

There’s no possibility of a pH boost larger than you can get from hydroxide for alk. Maybe you just do not have enough demand and hence addition to offset the large amount of CO2 entering the tank.

 

[Mindi]

Yes...very much afraid you are right. Maybe the only way forward is to continue with the NaOH recipe and reintroduce scrubbing into the skimmer. In my context I have "observed" pH improvements as follows (not concurrently) no change from external air to skimmer. 0.2 increase from sodalime scrubbing, and 0.1 increase from NaOH alkalinity recipe. Having said that I have replaced my skimmer with a bigger and better one since I first tried external air so I must try that again.I am dosing 40ml day into 500 litres to maintain 3.8-4.0 meq/l
Thanks your ongoing help with this Randy, much appreciated. I know that my worst pH of 7.8-7.9 probably isn't actually a serious problem but wrestling with it is teaching me about my environment.

 

[nanomania]

I'm maintaining a no wc no skimmer system with a cheato reactor only, iv been dosing cal mag alk sr using reef builder and reef adv cal. Will this 2 part recepie work on no wc tank? As no sr will be dosed. Also whats the need for sulphate? Plz help. Thank u.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'm maintaining a no wc no skimmer system with a cheato reactor only, iv been dosing cal mag alk sr using reef builder and reef adv cal. Will this 2 part recepie work on no wc tank? As no sr will be dosed. Also whats the need for sulphate? Plz help. Thank u.

Sulfate is the third most abundant ion in seawater by weight. If you do not have sufficient amounts of it in a two part, chloride will rise and sulfate will fall. It's not entirely clear what the effect might be of that.

I'd personally be a lot more concerned about potassium in a DIY two part than in strontium. In a no water change system using a DIY two part without them somehow in it, they will fall (as does everything not added).

 

[nanomania]

Sulfate is the third most abundant ion in seawater by weight. If you do not have sufficient amounts of it in a two part, chloride will rise and sulfate will fall. It's not entirely clear what the effect might be of that.

I'd personally be a lot more concerned about potassium in a DIY two part than in strontium. In a no water change system using a DIY two part without them somehow in it, they will fall (as does everything not added).

So how do i make a complete 2part that includes potassium too?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So how do i make a complete 2part that includes potassium too?

While I can and will give such data later after doing some calculations, let me point out that this is more complicated than it might seem.

Dowflake calcium chloride and two high-end hobby brands of calcium chloride I tested years ago had lots of potassium in them. Approximately enough to satisfy the potassium needs of a two part just coming as an impurity in the calcium chloride. So unless you know how much potassium is present as an impurity in the calcium chloride you are using, this could result in overdosing potassium.

 

[WWIII]

Been using this new 2 part mix for a couple weeks now. Removed my airline to the outside from skimmer and got rid of kalkwasser in my ato. I didn't have to increase my dosage from before at all, even though I took the kalk out. Anyways, love the new recipe! Alk remains stable at 8.5 when I test in the late afternoon. 8.7 in the morning. When I get my kh director I will be able to really track this. As for ph it goes from 8.25 in the morning to 8.40 when the lights go off at night. With the old recipe my ph was 7.8 ish to 8.2. That was with the airline on skimmer and kalk in the ato.

Calcium = 470
Magnesium = 1440
Using Fritz RPM salt

Thanks @Randy Holmes-Farley for posting this and your help along the way!

 

[nanomania]

While I can and will give such data later after doing some calculations, let me point out that this is more complicated than it might seem.

Dowflake calcium chloride and two high-end hobby brands of calcium chloride I tested years ago had lots of potassium in them. Approximately enough to satisfy the potassium needs of a two part just coming as an impurity in the calcium chloride. So unless you know how much potassium is present as an impurity in the calcium chloride you are using, this could result in overdosing potassium.

I have used your 3part version before successfully. I used lab grade as my family business is chemicals and pharma, so I have access to almost any chem i want.

However have u made any analysis on triton method?

Since mine is a skimmerless with no wc no gfo and low to medium bioload with a chaeto reactor (an experiment that is currently successful). Its a year old system.

Its a mixed reef. Just dosing 2part (reef builder/reef adv cal) and kalk in ato and reef plus every 10days. Nothing other then this. Still my system is doing fantastic, and my corals are doing far better, infact i added a few bleached corals and they recovered in no time.
Also iv stopped target feeding my sun coral and feather duster, they are still growing. My no3 are 15 and po4 0 without gfo. Only using carbon.

Without using Triton.

What do you think?

Here is my youtube channel.

 

[WWIII]

Do both the Calcium portion and Alkalinity portion raise ph equally?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Do both the Calcium portion and Alkalinity portion raise ph equally?

No. Only the alk porting has a pH boost. The calcium part has no substantial impact on pH.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

However have u made any analysis on triton method?

Analysis of what? the materials, or a tank using it?

I've never used it, so I have no tank data. It will result in a long term reduction in chemicals not present in the additives (say, fluoride???), due to the salinity rise and subsequent corrections back to normal, but I am not certain exactly what those are since it will depend on what is in the chemicals you use for the main ingredients.

 

[WWIII]

This one has about twice the pH raising effect compared to a carbonate based two part, per unit of alkalinity or calcium added.

Ok that's what I thought as I've been messing around with the alkalinity portion dosing schedule only to see the effect on ph throughout the day. When I came back and read the above quote I just thought I should ask. I understand the quote makes sense as this recipe should be dosed in equal parts. Thanks again!

 

[JDowns]

A little off topic, but in regards to dosing, I keep my dosing lines about 2 inches above the waterline in my return pump section, and because of this, the lines start to collect solidified residues of my dosing chemicals. Would it be bad if I made the lines longer so they dose underwater? I'm not worried about auto siphon as I have peristaltic pumps for dosing. Thanks.

I use one of these and it keeps the lines from solidifying. The tubes are kept slightly below the water line and the air trapped inside keeps enough humidity to stop the lines from solidifying. I'm sure you can DIY a solution also.

http://www.pacificsun-usa.com/pacific-sun-kore-5th-dropdose-dispenser.html

 

[nanomania]

Analysis of what? the materials, or a tank using it?

I've never used it, so I have no tank data. It will result in a long term reduction in chemicals not present in the additives (say, fluoride???), due to the salinity rise and subsequent corrections back to normal, but I am not certain exactly what those are since it will depend on what is in the chemicals you use for the main ingredients.

They have a long list, iv never seen anyone dosing somany things before. So asking. Is It worth? As mine is a skimmerless, so not much of all trace being removed from tank. However i use only activated carbon. All parameters are in chk. Im balancing the tank with low to medium bioload.

This might sound silly, but dont fish food/poop have some traces for corals? Also im dosing vitC 2ice a week. Reefplus only 5ml every 10days. For my 130g .

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

They have a long list, iv never seen anyone dosing somany things before. So asking. Is It worth? As mine is a skimmerless, so not much of all trace being removed from tank. However i use only activated carbon. All parameters are in chk. Im balancing the tank with low to medium bioload.

This might sound silly, but dont fish food/poop have some traces for corals? Also im dosing vitC 2ice a week. Reefplus only 5ml every 10days. For my 130g .

I would not assume that skimmers are the main way some trace elements are lost. I do think an occasional Triton test is desirable. The main complication is that I'm not sure we know what levels of many trace elements are acceptable.

Here's my discussion of my Triton test results:

My Triton Testing Results: By Randy Holmes-Farley
http://www.reefedition.com/my-triton-testing-results-by-randy-holmes-farley/