New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost

[zachxlutz]

Here's a first crack at what may end up being multiple possible recipes for a DIY two part that either has a higher pH or can be made more concentrated than traditional two part recipes. This one has about twice the pH raising effect compared to a carbonate based two part, per unit of alkalinity or calcium added. Note that I have neither made nor used this recipe. I fully expect it to work, but first adopters will be guinea pigs. :D

Note that the formation of some cloudiness of magnesium hydroxide is expected when the alk part hits the water (as carbonate versions also do). That is OK since it redissolves on mixing in more. But since the local pH is higher, there may be more chance for local precipitation of calcium carbonate, which is not optimal since it may waste additive (but otherwise is not a huge problem, IMO). To reduce this chance, add slowly to a very high flow area.

This first one is based on Jim Welsh's version of a DIY two part:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...hould-i-expect-to-change.215171/#post-2466696

Jim's recipe (with some text added by me):

Part 1 - The Calcium and Magnesium Part
Dissolve 500 g of calcium chloride dihydrate plus 261.2 g of magnesium chloride hexahydrate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.

Part 2 - The Alkalinity and Sulfate Part
Dissolve 374.7 g of sodium carbonate (594 g of baking soda that has been baked; = 3.535 moles of sodium carbonate) plus 68.7 g of sodium sulfate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.

This recipe is the same strength as Randy's Recipe #1 (e.g., BRS). To make these two parts with the same strength as B-Ionic, then multiply the amounts of the salts by 1.5 (but note dissolving the carbonate can become challenging).​

The sodium hydroxide version:

Part 1 - The Calcium and Magnesium Part
Dissolve 500 g of calcium chloride dihydrate plus 261.2 g of magnesium chloride hexahydrate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.

Part 2 - The Alkalinity and Sulfate Part
Dissolve 282.8 g of sodium hydroxide (=7.07 moles of sodium hydroxide to match the 3.535 moles of sodium carbonate in alkalinity) plus 68.7 g of sodium sulfate in enough water to make a total volume of one gallon.

This recipe is the same strength as Randy's Recipe #1 (e.g., BRS). To make these two parts with the same strength as B-Ionic, then multiply the amounts of the salts by 1.5. This version can readily be made more concentrated, if that is a goal.​

Just placed an order for Sodium Hydroxide and Sodium Sulfate (food grade from amazon). I'm going to give this a try on Friday of this week. I have decent pH values (avg 8.00 over 24 hours, 7.9-8.2 roughly) but I keep a window cracked in the room with the tank. I'm curious as to how this will offset the closing of that window. If I can break even on pH with closing the window and dosing this two part, I'll consider that a success. If I see an increase in pH with the closing of that window, I'll consider that an even bigger win. Thanks for all your help around here @Randy Holmes-Farley.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Just placed an order for Sodium Hydroxide and Sodium Sulfate (food grade from amazon). I'm going to give this a try on Friday of this week. I have decent pH values (avg 8.00 over 24 hours, 7.9-8.2 roughly) but I keep a window cracked in the room with the tank. I'm curious as to how this will offset the closing of that window. If I can break even on pH with closing the window and dosing this two part, I'll consider that a success. If I see an increase in pH with the closing of that window, I'll consider that an even bigger win. Thanks for all your help around here @Randy Holmes-Farley.

You're welcome.

Good luck! :)

 

[zachxlutz]

You're welcome.

Good luck! :)

Luck? I'm hoping I don't need luck for this! ;)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Luck? I'm hoping I don't need luck for this! ;)

lol

 

[blazedmasta]

I have an issue with PH being lower then desired and wanted to give this a try. I use BRS 2 part alkalinity and red sea calcium. I wanted to know what I need to order from brs to have the same strength so I can dose the same amount.I currently dose13ml nightly to stay at 8.2 dkh (41 gal). I can't get above 7.7 ph wanted to be ideally 8.3 to 8.5 consistently.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have an issue with PH being lower then desired and wanted to give this a try. I use BRS 2 part alkalinity and red sea calcium. I wanted to know what I need to order from brs to have the same strength so I can dose the same amount.I currently dose13ml nightly to stay at 8.2 dkh (41 gal). I can't get above 7.7 ph wanted to be ideally 8.3 to 8.5 consistently.

I don’t think BRS sells the ingredients, but if you get food grade sodium hydroxide, it can be swapped into my recipe (as used by BRS) in place of sodium carbonate.

 

[blazedmasta]

I don’t think BRS sells the ingredients, but if you get food grade sodium hydroxide, it can be swapped into my recipe (as used by BRS) in place of sodium carbonate.

And that would be a 1 to 1 ratio of sodium hydroxide to replace the sodium carbonate. Will I be able to dose the same amount with a bonus of a higher PH? Would this work as a replacement?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VRYYE4G/ref=sspa_mw_detail_2?psc=1

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I just wrote up the recipe here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/second-new-diy-two-part-recipe-with-higher-ph-boost.357080/

It's 1:1 moles, not weight or volume. Its much less weight of the sodium hydroxide.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

And that would be a 1 to 1 ratio of sodium hydroxide to replace the sodium carbonate. Will I be able to dose the same amount with a bonus of a higher PH? Would this work as a replacement?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VRYYE4G/ref=sspa_mw_detail_2?psc=1

yes, that's a good choice,. Don't touch the solids with your skin as it is quite irritating.

 

[blazedmasta]

I just wrote up the recipe here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/second-new-diy-two-part-recipe-with-higher-ph-boost.357080/

It's 1:1 moles, not weight or volume. Its much less weight of the sodium hydroxide.

Awesome I'll report back the results.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I added this warning to page 1 about the alk part:

BE CAREFUL WITH THIS SOLUTION: IT HAS A pH ABOVE 14. Do not get it in your eyes or on your skin.

 

[zachxlutz]

I added this warning to page 1 about the alk part:

BE CAREFUL WITH THIS SOLUTION: IT HAS A pH ABOVE 14. Do not get it in your eyes or on your skin.

Thanks, again. Good advice, I will wear gloves.

 

[WWIII]

I added this warning to page 1 about the alk part:

BE CAREFUL WITH THIS SOLUTION: IT HAS A pH ABOVE 14. Do not get it in your eyes or on your skin.

I can vouch for this. Lol. It's slimy and difficult to get off right away. I had a mishap with a hole in a thin container. Wasn't very fun

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I can vouch for this. Lol. It's slimy and difficult to get off right away. I had a mishap with a hole in a thin container. Wasn't very fun

While I've had it happen many times too, here's the gruesome process that makes it slimy...

The pH is high enough that fats (triglycerides, or the fatty acid ester of glycerol) in your skin tissue are hydrolyzed into fatty acids, which are a surfactant. This is the age old process for making soap:

fat + lye = soap + glycerol

 

[fedeuma]

Taking advantage of the free shipping on Amazon.
I have the Alkalinity & Sulfate Part (Sodium Hydroxide and Sodium Sulfate).
Any suggestions for the Calcium Chloride Dihydrate and Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate that I can chose from on Amazon?

 

[WWIII]

Taking advantage of the free shipping on Amazon.
I have the Alkalinity & Sulfate Part (Sodium Hydroxide and Sodium Sulfate).
Any suggestions for the Calcium Chloride Dihydrate and Magnesium Chloride Hexahydrate that I can chose from on Amazon?

I used brs calcium chloride and magnesium chloride that I already had on hand. It will be pretty hard to beat their prices for these on Amazon if purchased in bulk. I don't know where guys are still purchasing the Dowflake calcium and/or dead sea work magnesium?

 

[WWIII]

While I've had it happen many times too, here's the gruesome process that makes it slimy...

The pH is high enough that fats (triglycerides, or the fatty acid ester of glycerol) in your skin tissue are hydrolyzed into fatty acids, which are a surfactant. This is the age old process for making soap:

fat + lye = soap + glycerol

Yuck! That's crazy, and makes sense now that you explained it. I will be more aware and careful in the future! I did wear gloves when mixing and transferring. My new dosing containers are much thicker than those pansy water jugs I had before!

 

[WWIII]

Here's some on amazon prime if you are doing a test batch or just want to make a little to try and order all on amazon...

 

[WWIII]

Like I said BRS bulk prices on the calcium and magnesium are hard to beat (from what I've found), plus we know they should be fairly pure and safe, but here's the sodium hydroxide and sodium sulfate chemicals I purchased on amazon...

 

[fedeuma]

Here's some on amazon prime if you are doing a test batch or just want to make a little to try and order all on amazon...

Thanks WWIII!
BRS probably does have the best pricing.
Thanks for looking out!