New DIY Two Part Recipes with Higher pH Boost

[doughboy]

if it is safe to dose, so it is safe to use soap to wash reef equipment, as long as it is rinsed (?)
what you described, lye, causing skin to be slippery/slimy (which is actually skin melting), is the same effect as soap.
I'm not questioning the safety of dosing lye, but if the soap and reef don't mix is a myth, which I think based on this thread, implies it is a myth.

 

[zachxlutz]

if it is safe to dose, so it is safe to use soap to wash reef equipment, as long as it is rinsed (?)
what you described, lye, causing skin to be slippery/slimy (which is actually skin melting), is the same effect as soap.
I'm not questioning the safety of dosing lye, but if the soap and reef don't mix is a myth, which I think based on this thread, implies it is a myth.

I'm no scientist but I'd have to guess that lots of commercially available soap has disinfectants, scents, miscellaneous other chemicals which would be harmful to marine life. While a portion of this recipe uses the same ingredient as soap... the end result isn't soap.

 

[cypho]

if it is safe to dose, so it is safe to use soap to wash reef equipment, as long as it is rinsed (?)
what you described, lye, causing skin to be slippery/slimy (which is actually skin melting), is the same effect as soap.
I'm not questioning the safety of dosing lye, but if the soap and reef don't mix is a myth, which I think based on this thread, implies it is a myth.

Your logic is flawed.

Just because one ingredient something is safe does not mean that all ingredients are safe. Water is the primary ingredient in bleach. Water is safe to use in an aquarium. Therefore it is OK to dump bleach into your aquarium? No not really.

And even if all ingredients in something are safe on their own, it does not mean that they are safe when combined. Nitrogen gas and Hydrogen gas are both non-toxic. But when you combine them to make Ammonia, it becomes quite toxic.

 

[Ryan Rosales]

How are your Ca+ and Mg levels doing?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I can't tell if you guys are serious or not, but the whole soap concern is, well, strange.

Sodium hydroxide is not a soap, it is not a surfactant, and they have almost no properties in common except that both may contain sodium.

Soap is a surfactant, does not contain hydroxide, and may be irritating to mucous membranes of many organisms (think getting soap in your eye). So don't put soap in a tank. That said, a little bit probably does nothing more than give some extra foaming to your skimmer.

If you combine hydroxide and fat at high concentrations of each, you get soap. That happens on your skin. It does not happen in tank water after dosing and dilution.

 

[doughboy]

I'm no scientist but I'd have to guess that lots of commercially available soap has disinfectants, scents, miscellaneous other chemicals which would be harmful to marine life. While a portion of this recipe uses the same ingredient as soap... the end result isn't soap.

Your logic is flawed.

Just because one ingredient something is safe does not mean that all ingredients are safe. Water is the primary ingredient in bleach. Water is safe to use in an aquarium. Therefore it is OK to dump bleach into your aquarium? No not really.

And even if all ingredients in something are safe on their own, it does not mean that they are safe when combined. Nitrogen gas and Hydrogen gas are both non-toxic. But when you combine them to make Ammonia, it becomes quite toxic.

seems like this is exactly how myths get started.
so in theory, if lye is safe, you can make a reef safe soap, no?

Randy, you yourself said soap = lye (same thing as NaOH) + fat

I'm merely saying things don't seem to add up. 99.99% of people simply accept what they read on the internet. It may or may not be true.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

seems like this is exactly how myths get started.
so in theory, if lye is safe, you can make a reef safe soap, no?

Randy, you yourself said soap = lye (same thing as NaOH) + fat

I'm merely saying things don't seem to add up. 99.99% of people simply accept what they read on the internet. It may or may not be true.

Hydroxide is perfectly safe for a reef tank at appropriate doses.

I have no idea how safe soap might be, so I think you should experiment and see what happens adding soap. Maybe Tide. Name seems appropriate.

(so chemists don't whack me, Tide isn't actually a soap (fatty acids), its a detergent which is a different class of chemical)

 

[redfishbluefish]

I think there is some confusion in that lye or sodium hydroxide is used in producing soaps (made from fats) by a process call Saponification. No lye or NaOH remains after processing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy, you yourself said soap = lye (same thing as NaOH) + fat

I'm merely saying things don't seem to add up. 99.99% of people simply accept what they read on the internet. It may or may not be true.

As we have noted, the " + " in that sentence means a chemical reaction, not a simple mixture.

 

[zachxlutz]

I mixed up the sodium hydroxide recipe at standard "Randy's Recipe #1" strength to mimic the BRS alk/cal two part I have previously been dosing and primed the lines with the new solution this morning. My dosing pumps come on hourly with a 30 minute offset between alkalinity and calcium. Refugium with a long reverse light cycle. Lots of macro growth. I keep a window cracked in the room with the tank, hoping to be able to close that. I also have an airline run from my skimmer to the same cracked window (although my skimmer is undersized and I'm not sure it's making much difference). Hoping to get rid of that, as well.

Here's my pH from the last week for reference (original BRS recipe/randy's #1):

As you can see, it's not bad at all and well within the acceptable range with an average of 8.02. Since I'm dosing two part anyway, why not put it to work raising my pH a little bit more. The added benefit of dosing Magnesium via this new recipe is a bonus as well.

I'll update over the next few weeks with my experience.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It will be interesting to see how that graph changes.

 

[zachxlutz]

It will be interesting to see how that graph changes.

Agreed. I calibrated the pH probe on 01/17, so I'm fairly confident in the readings. Regardless, the trend will be interesting to see. I'm watching my apex like a hawk today to see if I see a noticeable pH boost on the hour when the alk solution doses.

 

[CNDReef]

I’ve been waiting to end my origami Randy’s recipe to start using this. If for nothing else , the mag is in there already = less dosing [emoji16]

 

[zachxlutz]

I’ve been waiting to end my origami Randy’s recipe to start using this. If for nothing else , the mag is in there already = less dosing [emoji16]

Agreed. I don't mind dosing Mag, as it's only 1x a month or so, but anything to reduce maintenance time is good in my book.

 

[fedeuma]

Many people, myself included, dose only hydroxide for alkalinity (as limewater/kalkwasser). I dosed it every day for 20 years. It is nothing like soap. It is just used to make soap, among other things.

Randy, I know this is not a Kalkwasser thread but I was wondering, how do you personally dose Limewater? Do you use a Kalk Stirrer or do you mix the powder in RODI water?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy, I know this is not a Kalkwasser thread but I was wondering, how do you personally dose Limewater? Do you use a Kalk Stirrer or do you mix the powder in RODI water?

I dosed it for 20 years from an ATO with a slow dosing pump (Reef Filler) from a very large (132 gallon) settled reservoir.

 

[fedeuma]

Thank you for the info Randy!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you for the info Randy!

You’re welcome.

Happy Reefing. [emoji3]

 

[zachxlutz]

First report... pH is trending higher, which is great, considering the pH usually trends down during the weekends (higher body count in the house during weekend). pH topped out at 8.26 today, the highest this prior week was 8.21. Improvement! Alkalinity is spot on tonight after two days dosing at 7.9, well within the acceptable range, with no drift from the prior dosing solution. Alkalinity is cloudy when dripped from doser but quickly disperses into the return chamber and up through the return to the display.

I'm anxious to see the week long trend to see what sort of longer term results we're getting.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for the update!