New tilefish pair - one eating, one not

Thanks Christinna.

Well we medicated for nematodes with a preparation that contains levanisole for 24 hours - that treatment was over last night and we did a 25% water change and added a small bag of carbon to remove the medication. Not that I’m in any way sure that this was the problem. It was one of the medications I could lay my hands on where the symptoms ‘could’ match.

I’d like to say she looks a bit healthier from this morning. She has shown a slight interest in offered bbs by pipette - I’ve also been bring some brine shrimp on from the same clutch of the babies (most of which are in the fridge and brought out as needed) and those are about 1-3mm (about 5 days). I added some of those to her tank just now. Again she could see them I think but no feeding response.

She has also done a couple of stringy white poops. Couldn’t make out any worms specifically.

Bottom line - she is not yet feeding but there’s still hope!

I’m sorry to hear about your fish - you really did do your best for it and like us - you still have 1 of the 2.

Tinky (still in the display) is becoming tank boss at feeding time. He snatched a mysis from the blue spotted puffer’s mouth earlier today. He is quite brazen!
 
Thanks Christinna.

Well we medicated for nematodes with a preparation that contains levanisole for 24 hours - that treatment was over last night and we did a 25% water change and added a small bag of carbon to remove the medication. Not that I’m in any way sure that this was the problem. It was one of the medications I could lay my hands on where the symptoms ‘could’ match.

I’d like to say she looks a bit healthier from this morning. She has shown a slight interest in offered bbs by pipette - I’ve also been bring some brine shrimp on from the same clutch of the babies (most of which are in the fridge and brought out as needed) and those are about 1-3mm (about 5 days). I added some of those to her tank just now. Again she could see them I think but no feeding response.

She has also done a couple of stringy white poops. Couldn’t make out any worms specifically.

Bottom line - she is not yet feeding but there’s still hope!

I’m sorry to hear about your fish - you really did do your best for it and like us - you still have 1 of the 2.

Tinky (still in the display) is becoming tank boss at feeding time. He snatched a mysis from the blue spotted puffer’s mouth earlier today. He is quite brazen!
I think stringy white poop can be from the fish not eating as well as parasites, but @Jay Hemdal would be a better person to confirm that.

And thank you for your kind words. He should've been gone a long time ago, I'm glad I was able to be there for him the entire time, feed him some great meals and hold him in his last hour. Plus, he's made me learn so much more about treating very sick fish, I'll cherish that memory and experience he's given me forever.

It's funny you mentioned that about Tinky because my JellyBean is also becoming very aggressive around food. He's still in my observation tank and I have to be so careful with the feeding door whenever I feed him. He's almost jumped out from excitement several times lol.
 
I think stringy white poop can be from the fish not eating as well as parasites, but @Jay Hemdal would be a better person to confirm that.

And thank you for your kind words. He should've been gone a long time ago, I'm glad I was able to be there for him the entire time, feed him some great meals and hold him in his last hour. Plus, he's made me learn so much more about treating very sick fish, I'll cherish that memory and experience he's given me forever.

It's funny you mentioned that about Tinky because my JellyBean is also becoming very aggressive around food. He's still in my observation tank and I have to be so careful with the feeding door whenever I feed him. He's almost jumped out from excitement several times lol.

I post this often, but here is my take on mucus feces in marine fish:

Excess mucus in fish feces:

This will present as white or light colored, stringy fecal material that often hangs from the fish’s anus for a longer than normal period. There are a number of different causes for this, some benign, others very serious. Without access to a microscope, there is little that can be done to diagnose this issue effectively.

Idiopathic mucus feces: this fancy term is just to describe white mucoid bulky feces of no serious consequence, but of an unknown cause. Some suspicion is that this can be caused by changes in diet or diets high in fats.

Starvation: Fish that have no food moving through their bowels may excrete white mucoid feces with little bulk to them. The primary diagnostic for this issue is evident in that the fish won’t been seen to be eating. Resolving the anorexia is of course the prime focus to resolve this issue.

Bacterial infection: internal bacterial infections can cause stringy feces as well. While some of these may resolve on their own, medicated foods containing a broad spectrum, gram negative oral antibiotic may be required.

Metazoan infections: multicellular worms are often blamed for mucoid feces, but in reality, they are almost never the root cause for this, and really, can only be diagnosed through looking for their ova in fecal samples. Fish can harbor tapeworms and nematodes without producing mucoid feces.

Protozoan infection: Hexamita and related diplomonad flagellate protozoans very frequently cause white stringy feces, especially in newly acquired clownfish. Metronidazole is the most frequent treatment for this issue. It can be dosed orally at 25 mg per kg of fish body weight, or 5 g in a kg of food. However, it is a very bitter medication, and some fish will refuse to feed on food containing it. It can be dosed in the water at 25 mg/l, but this is more effective in treating marine fishes, as freshwater fish do not “drink” aquarium water.

Coccidia: These microscopic, spore-forming, single-celled parasites are common diseases in dogs and cats. In fish, they cause epithelial necrosis of the gut, enteritis and the copious production of mucus (Noga 2010). These cannot be diagnosed without microscopic examination, and there is no well researched cure for this in fishes, although Toltrazuril has been tested.

Constipation: This malady is often given as a cause for stringy feces, but it is not as common as one would think. When it is seen, the feces are usually dark, not light in color. Often touted as a “cure for constipation”, many aquarists add Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) to the aquarium’s water – do not do this in marine aquariums, its use is primarily as a tonic/dip for freshwater fish. Seawater formulas already contain between 7 and 19 grams of magnesium sulfate per gallon (depending on the recipe). NSW magnesium level is around 1200 ppm and sulfur is around 840 ppm. Some benefit might be seen using it as a dip in additional concentrations, but adding a small amount to a marine aquarium itself has no benefit. Epsom salts do have some possible benefit when mixed into the food as a 3% by weight adjunct. Another commonly heard remedy for constipation is; “feed fresh peas”. This is an effective cure for fancy goldfish and Malawi cichlids that develop constipation and bloating. Again, overextrapolation has marine aquarists trying to feed peas to carnivorous fish, etc. The best method to enhance gut motility in fish is to feed frozen adult brine shrimp – not as a permanent diet, just long enough to get the constipation resolved.
 
Hi Jay and Christinna

Thanks for that post Jay I hadn’t noticed it! Almost certainly anorexia as far as I can tell but the cause? No more stringy white poop since that last bout. No poop to speak of at all.

Winky is still with us and seems ‘ok’. We’re not sure if she is sneaking something to eat when we’re not looking. I’m strongly of the opinion that she would be dead by now if she wasn’t.

She does have live brine shrimp at several stages of development in the tank with her but we never really see her striking for anything.

We are still attempting to pipette feed frozen pods/other small foods several times a day but she shows no interest.

We are maintaining her water quality with small water changes/tank bottom cleanups every few days.
 
Hi Jay and Christinna

Thanks for that post Jay I hadn’t noticed it! Almost certainly anorexia as far as I can tell but the cause? No more stringy white poop since that last bout. No poop to speak of at all.

Winky is still with us and seems ‘ok’. We’re not sure if she is sneaking something to eat when we’re not looking. I’m strongly of the opinion that she would be dead by now if she wasn’t.

She does have live brine shrimp at several stages of development in the tank with her but we never really see her striking for anything.

We are still attempting to pipette feed frozen pods/other small foods several times a day but she shows no interest.

We are maintaining her water quality with small water changes/tank bottom cleanups every few days.
I really hope she's eating something when you're not watching, although some fish can go without food for a month or more. That said, you're already doing everything you can, so hopefully she'll realize that soon enough!

The only other thing I can think of is trying white worms. Maybe ask around in your local FB groups to see if anyone has some. They'll stay alive in the water for a few days, so she can hunt them down in her own time.
 
Hi Jay and Christinna

Thanks for that post Jay I hadn’t noticed it! Almost certainly anorexia as far as I can tell but the cause? No more stringy white poop since that last bout. No poop to speak of at all.

Winky is still with us and seems ‘ok’. We’re not sure if she is sneaking something to eat when we’re not looking. I’m strongly of the opinion that she would be dead by now if she wasn’t.

She does have live brine shrimp at several stages of development in the tank with her but we never really see her striking for anything.

We are still attempting to pipette feed frozen pods/other small foods several times a day but she shows no interest.

We are maintaining her water quality with small water changes/tank bottom cleanups every few days.
I really hope she's eating something when you're not watching, although some fish can go without food for a month or more. That said, you're already doing everything you can, so hopefully she'll realize that soon enough!

The only other thing I can think of is trying white worms. Maybe ask around in your local FB groups to see if anyone has some. They'll stay alive in the water for a few days, so she can hunt them down in her own time.
Thanks!

I’ll be on the lookout for live white (or black) worms - must be one of the few live foods remaining to try. I recall Paul B had good success with rearing his own black worms.

I can get live (baby) blood worm but we have never fed these to our marine fish (only our green spotted puffer who sadly passed at a good age earlier this year) as I’ve heard they are not well suited.
 
Thanks!

I’ll be on the lookout for live white (or black) worms - must be one of the few live foods remaining to try. I recall Paul B had good success with rearing his own black worms.

I can get live (baby) blood worm but we have never fed these to our marine fish (only our green spotted puffer who sadly passed at a good age earlier this year) as I’ve heard they are not well suited.
I think it won't hurt, as long as she eats something, anything really. I very occasionally feed frozen blood worms, but my tilefish has never been too crazy for them. That said, perhaps a live one would be a different story.
 
Thanks!

I’ll be on the lookout for live white (or black) worms - must be one of the few live foods remaining to try. I recall Paul B had good success with rearing his own black worms.

I can get live (baby) blood worm but we have never fed these to our marine fish (only our green spotted puffer who sadly passed at a good age earlier this year) as I’ve heard they are not well suited.

You can try bloodworms, just be aware that many people develop allergic reactions to handling them.
 
@Jay Hemdal I’m looking for a howto on freshwater dipping- I think at this point it’s worth a try.

I understand the basics - temp, aeration and and pH - and time 5-10 minutes depending on how the fish progresses. Also we will use a dark vessel to try and highlight anything that releases. Main question is how to buffer the pH. I have a digital Milwaukee pH probe that still seems to function ok. I have bicarbonate of Soda in the kitchen cupboard. An idea of how much to add would be great and also what to look out for in the ingredient list to exclude the product from suitability. Or alternatives to household bicarbonate of soda.

Thanks!

PS winky is still as she was. Grabbing some live blood worm today hopefully. The frozen stuff seemed to exhibit some response but we don’t think she has eaten any.
 
@Jay Hemdal I’m looking for a howto on freshwater dipping- I think at this point it’s worth a try.

I understand the basics - temp, aeration and and pH - and time 5-10 minutes depending on how the fish progresses. Also we will use a dark vessel to try and highlight anything that releases. Main question is how to buffer the pH. I have a digital Milwaukee pH probe that still seems to function ok. I have bicarbonate of Soda in the kitchen cupboard. An idea of how much to add would be great and also what to look out for in the ingredient list to exclude the product from suitability. Or alternatives to household bicarbonate of soda.

Thanks!

PS winky is still as she was. Grabbing some live blood worm today hopefully. The frozen stuff seemed to exhibit some response but we don’t think she has eaten any.
Not Jay, but here's a good article from Jay about FW dips: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-dips.968263/

I follow it every time I do one and I've never had any issues. I also use tap water without dechlorinating it as I don't believe that's necessary for a 5 min dip, and I read that Jay does the same.

Regarding buffering the pH, yes, baking soda works. I've used it raw before without any issues, but I also baked mine. After baking it's much more potent, so you only need a very small amount. I always guess the amount, add a bit, then measure pH, then add more if needed, etc., so I don't have exact dosage.

Here's a video of me doing a FW on my purple tilefish. Hope it helps:


Warning, they can be pretty dramatic sometimes! During their first FW dip they both went belly up and had moments when they tried to jump out. During the second one, Jelly behaved much better, so I didn't cover the container and was able to record him. I recommend using a dark container. Even if you don't see any obvious flukes after, I'd get some samples from the bottom of it and check it under the microscope if you have one.

One thing to keep in mind is that performing a FW on an already weak fish could do more harm than good... At the same time, I do think it's worth trying in case it's flukes, although the other fish probably would've shown symptoms by now... I'll let Jay chime in on that.
 
Thanks for your reply Christinna - that's perfect. I will read and digest...

I re-read the linked post (since it was from a few years ago) and I would still stand behind that info. Point #5 needs to be highlighted, as this is one genus of fish where I've seen trauma induced popeye from handling...
 
Updates on Winky.

We did a 5 minute fw dip just now - she got through it ok. She lay on her side for about half of the dip. I monitored her breathing which got up to about 2 breaths per second. Half way through she swam around a bit and then stayed upright - then she tried to jump a couple of times then lay back down for the last minute or so.

There’s absolutely nothing in the dark bucket which we performed the dip in.

She is recovering right now back in her little 22 litre observation/hospital tank. She seems to be recovering well - breathing is normal at about 1 breath per second. We will do a clean out and a small water change and reassess.

In other news - we went back to the LFS where we picked the pair up originally to pick up some live bloodworm on Friday afternoon. They still had 1 of the original 4 purple tilefish and they did a deal with us on it. This new tilefish was also rapidly acclimated - bag floated for temperature and added. Tinky was excited to see a new friend and was trying to poke through the bag. Once added Tinky quickly showed the new fish where he has been sleeping and the new fish actually followed him to check it out. It was a vey sweet moment. They both went to bed at the same time that night and were still hidden early the next morning when I checked.

They have been together most of the time since adding and seem to be getting along great. When we fed the tank after an hour or two both ate well and that’s been the case since.

So now we have a decision to make on Winky. We feel that we have done what we can and probably at this point moving her back to the display to be with her siblings is the right thing to do - whether she survives or not, she will be in company at least and not on her own. We will continue to add bbs and other live foods to the display.

I’d like to thank Jay and Christinna for their help and support throughout!
 
Updates on Winky.

We did a 5 minute fw dip just now - she got through it ok. She lay on her side for about half of the dip. I monitored her breathing which got up to about 2 breaths per second. Half way through she swam around a bit and then stayed upright - then she tried to jump a couple of times then lay back down for the last minute or so.

There’s absolutely nothing in the dark bucket which we performed the dip in.

She is recovering right now back in her little 22 litre observation/hospital tank. She seems to be recovering well - breathing is normal at about 1 breath per second. We will do a clean out and a small water change and reassess.

In other news - we went back to the LFS where we picked the pair up originally to pick up some live bloodworm on Friday afternoon. They still had 1 of the original 4 purple tilefish and they did a deal with us on it. This new tilefish was also rapidly acclimated - bag floated for temperature and added. Tinky was excited to see a new friend and was trying to poke through the bag. Once added Tinky quickly showed the new fish where he has been sleeping and the new fish actually followed him to check it out. It was a vey sweet moment. They both went to bed at the same time that night and were still hidden early the next morning when I checked.

They have been together most of the time since adding and seem to be getting along great. When we fed the tank after an hour or two both ate well and that’s been the case since.

So now we have a decision to make on Winky. We feel that we have done what we can and probably at this point moving her back to the display to be with her siblings is the right thing to do - whether she survives or not, she will be in company at least and not on her own. We will continue to add bbs and other live foods to the display.

I’d like to thank Jay and Christinna for their help and support throughout!
Just a small note that only Neobenedenia flukes are visible to the naked eye. Any other flukes are too microscopic to see, so you probably wouldn't see them at the bottom of the container if that were the case.

Fingers crossed for Winky, please keep us updated on her. I hope the third one is named Dipsy now 😄
 
We moved Winky back to the display on Monday where she spent several days swimming occasionally with the 2 healthy tilefish - which was lovely to see. As the week went on she spent more time resting under the rockwork as it was obvious this newfound exercise regime was tiring her out more and more. She did not come out at all yesterday but we were able to see she was still with us last night.

Sadly we found that she had passed this morning.

The remaining pair seem to be the best eaters in the tank - always ready for a meal. To my knowledge she did not eat at all since she was in our care, which was a week prior to the original post.

Thanks again to Jay and Christinna!
 
I'm so very sorry about Winky. You did everything you could for her and really went far far beyond to try to help. Sometimes we just can't save them 😢

I'm so glad her last days were spent back with the other tilefish, swimming together and having friends with her. There's something really comforting about knowing she wasn't alone. You're amazing.

I just started following your tank journal, and would love to see more videos and pictures of the new pair in the future 🤗
 
We moved Winky back to the display on Monday where she spent several days swimming occasionally with the 2 healthy tilefish - which was lovely to see. As the week went on she spent more time resting under the rockwork as it was obvious this newfound exercise regime was tiring her out more and more. She did not come out at all yesterday but we were able to see she was still with us last night.

Sadly we found that she had passed this morning.

The remaining pair seem to be the best eaters in the tank - always ready for a meal. To my knowledge she did not eat at all since she was in our care, which was a week prior to the original post.

Thanks again to Jay and Christinna!

Anorexia is a strange one in fish. Once the liver is pretty much wasted the fish is done. Had my brother’s maroon clown that I caught early on with the no eating issue. Luckily it was early, but boy did it take some crazy work it get her back on track!

The issue is if you don’t have a microscope, or camera to watch what the fish are doing at all times, eating disorders can come for many things. Sadly to see this one pass, but there are times when you do all you can, and they still don’t make it. At least you tried. Stress alone can do crazy amount of things to a fish.
 

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