New tilefish pair - one eating, one not

[AstroMelly]

Yes we have BBS egg/salt mix and did talk about hatching some but those are really small. We were hatching bbs regularly for quite a while to condition our mandarins. I even 3d printed a feeder with a mesh lid which worked incredibly well.

I also looked at using the 20 litre tank to bring them in to adulthood - looks quite simple just need some spirulina powder. Let’s see maybe we will get some BBS on the go as well. Can’t hurt right?

 

[AstroMelly]

Went and grabbed about 40 ghost river shrimp - added 4 and they just swum past the fish. The clowns chased them for a bit but I don’t think they’ve ever seen anything like them. I think the shrimp are still in there wandering around the substrate. I put one dead one in the 6ft and our peacock wrasse had it within 2 seconds.

Oh and some good news at last - our biggest fish in the 6ft - a beautiful male blonde Naso Tang - named Edna - he’s about 7 ish inches without his tail streamers had also stopped eating for some reason unknown - about a week ago. He had shown no interest in any foods even his favourite seaweed extreme pellets which he loves. He was at the food cupboard today at lunchtime and actually ate something so that was nice to see.

I did notice what looked like a white poop that could have been his floating on the surface of the tank this morning. I bet he was constipated.

Anyway thought I’d share that cos I would have been starting another thread if he didn’t start eating again soon.

 

[AstroMelly]

Quick update. Winky still not eating, Tinky doing great.

I added a few more river shrimp into their tank - same thing - the shrimp just swam for their lives and the fish barely glanced at them. I dumped the rest in the 6ft as the water was starting to smell even after 24 hours with an air line bubbling and the wrasse had as many as she could fit in her mouth at once. I caught a few of them hanging out on the weir and the returns giving me the evils. Funny to see our scarlet hawkfish in there hadn’t a clue that they could were supposed to be food - he loves his pellets these days!

So not sure what to do next with Winky - the filter roller is reconnected now after dosing the Praziquantel- I really don’t think it’s done anything for any of the fish but at least if they had flukes they should now be gone - but as I said I didn’t see anything different. Apart from one thing - this evening - Winky was opening her mouth when I was trying to target feed. I swear she was asking me to feed her. I even got a pair of tweezers and she hovered still with her mouth open while I held food trying to encourage her to inhale it. Seems she either couldn’t or didn’t want to. I tried frozen mysis and flake - absolutely no feeding response or interest. I know the yawning can be a response to flukes but we’d never seen this prior. It was most odd.

Also baby brine shrimp were harvested today - added a bunch and they just float right past her. They circulated for a while and we could see Tinky taking an interest - not eating more watching I think. Also the lights are back in a schedule now - we want to see our fish! This seems to be encouraging Tinky to swim away more.

Considering isolating her from her partner. We watch them a lot and their interactions just don’t seem aggressive but who really knows what they are thinking? They seem to touch tails a lot which looks quite affectionate to me.

Oh and in other news Edna the Naso tang is well on his way back to being the biggest eater in the 6ft so that’s at least good news!

 

[christinna77]

Quick update. Winky still not eating, Tinky doing great.

I added a few more river shrimp into their tank - same thing - the shrimp just swam for their lives and the fish barely glanced at them. I dumped the rest in the 6ft as the water was starting to smell even after 24 hours with an air line bubbling and the wrasse had as many as she could fit in her mouth at once. I caught a few of them hanging out on the weir and the returns giving me the evils. Funny to see our scarlet hawkfish in there hadn’t a clue that they could were supposed to be food - he loves his pellets these days!

So not sure what to do next with Winky - the filter roller is reconnected now after dosing the Praziquantel- I really don’t think it’s done anything for any of the fish but at least if they had flukes they should now be gone - but as I said I didn’t see anything different. Apart from one thing - this evening - Winky was opening her mouth when I was trying to target feed. I swear she was asking me to feed her. I even got a pair of tweezers and she hovered still with her mouth open while I held food trying to encourage her to inhale it. Seems she either couldn’t or didn’t want to. I tried frozen mysis and flake - absolutely no feeding response or interest. I know the yawning can be a response to flukes but we’d never seen this prior. It was most odd.

Also baby brine shrimp were harvested today - added a bunch and they just float right past her. They circulated for a while and we could see Tinky taking an interest - not eating more watching I think. Also the lights are back in a schedule now - we want to see our fish! This seems to be encouraging Tinky to swim away more.

Considering isolating her from her partner. We watch them a lot and their interactions just don’t seem aggressive but who really knows what they are thinking? They seem to touch tails a lot which looks quite affectionate to me.

Oh and in other news Edna the Naso tang is well on his way back to being the biggest eater in the 6ft so that’s at least good news!

I'm sorry Winky still isn't eating and that the shrimp didn't help :( I'm glad there's at least some good news with Edna, though!

My larger tilefish had a really bad Neobenedenia fluke infestation and he'd actually swim down to the airstone, open his mouth wide and hold it there for about 10 seconds. He still does it sometimes, even without the airstone, although less frequently now. I think his mouth/gills may have been damaged, and this gives him some relief. Prazi unfortunately never did anything for me, I had to go full hypo...

My pair would hover together and touch tails too. But I did notice the larger one was slower to come out for food, and caught the smaller nipping at him a few times (only after reviewing hours of footage from my tank camera). One day I just woke up and he suddenly had a giant wound on his head...

Now I'm almost sure they're the same sex and the smaller one may have sensed that the larger one was weaker due to the flukes, and possibly tried to take over. But who knows... I just think it could be a possibility.

 

[AstroMelly]

Yes I’ve been following your thread with interest.

You really are doing the best for them both.

Good luck with that eye infection it’s started to look nasty. I hope it gets better!

 

[christinna77]

Yes I’ve been following your thread with interest.

You really are doing the best for them both.

Good luck with that eye infection it’s started to look nasty. I hope it gets better!

How's Winky doing today?

 

[AstroMelly]

We’re in the final stages. We separated Winky and put her in the 22 litre yesterday to attempt live food and blacking the tank out. She made it through the night but today she began sleeping more and more.

Now she seems to be catatonic.

It’s sad but I think we tried everything we could. It’s difficult to access antibiotics for pets here in the UK - we need a prescription from a vet.

Thank you Christinna and Jay for your help!

Tinky is doing great - it’s so weird how differently they acclimated.

 

[christinna77]

We’re in the final stages. We separated Winky and put her in the 22 litre yesterday to attempt live food and blacking the tank out. She made it through the night but today she began sleeping more and more.

Now she seems to be catatonic.

It’s sad but I think we tried everything we could. It’s difficult to access antibiotics for pets here in the UK - we need a prescription from a vet.

Thank you Christinna and Jay for your help!

Tinky is doing great - it’s so weird how differently they acclimated.

I'm so sorry she's not doing better Is there any fast breathing at all that you're noticing? You could always try a FW dip, but I'm afraid that'd probably kill her in this state.

I feel you about the antibiotics. It's been so difficult trying to get them here too. There's only one vet who treats fish. She works at our local aquarium but she's away on summer vacation right now... I was given the name of another vet that sometimes sees fish, but I don't think she has much experience. Other than that, all the other vets refused to help or prescribe any medication...

 

[AstroMelly]

No fast breathing. Gills barely moving - it’s the end I’m afraid. So sad.

Tinky will become TinkyWinky - at least her name will live on.

 

[christinna77]

No fast breathing. Gills barely moving - it’s the end I’m afraid. So sad.

Tinky will become TinkyWinky - at least her name will live on.

I'm so sorry. The blackout can slow their breathing when they think it's night, but with her being catatonic and not eating for so long, I think she's just really tired. You can still try the FW dip if she passes, to 100% rule out flukes.

Other than that, I don't know if there's any course of action to recommend at this point? @Jay Hemdal.

You gave her every possible chance and did everything right - she's been lucky to have someone fight this hard for her. TinkyWinky is a beautiful way to keep her with you

 

[AstroMelly]

Well it seems she was actually sleeping. As we went up to bed she was at the surface. All hope not yet lost but still not eating…

She has ambient light and we have left the sides of the tank exposed in case she decides to go for any of the dozen or so live adult brine shrimp in the tank with her tonight.

 

[christinna77]

Well it seems she was actually sleeping. As we went up to bed she was at the surface. All hope not yet lost but still not eating…

She has ambient light and we have left the sides of the tank exposed in case she decides to go for any of the dozen or so live adult brine shrimp in the tank with her tonight.

Fingers crossed! I'd keep tempting her with a feeding tube and different kinds of frozen food, with a little garlic mixed in. When mine stopped eating, I'd hold the tube next to his mouth with a piece of food right at the end. Sometimes I'd even baste a little food directly next to him. Eventually he'd open his mouth and eat some (maybe to get me off of his back, lol), but it definitely took a lot of convincing. I'd spend at least 15 minutes each time just talking to him, moving the tube around him and basting a bit of food near him hoping he'd smell it.

 

[AstroMelly]

Thanks Christinna! That’s exactly the tactic I was employing. I even was able to hold mysis with my fingers right at the fish’s nose but still no response.

I’ll keep trying - just got downstairs this morning and she is still doing pretty good. Just doesn’t appear to have gone for any of the live brine unfortunately.

They keep swimming past and waving at her but she’s not interested!

 

[AstroMelly]

Here's her current situation. The tank is small but it's all we've got. The water is from the system she was in. Temp is 25.1C pH is about 8 (Milwaukee probe). Same as our 6ft and the display she came from. I checked salinity and it has not creeped yet but I'm ready to add some RO when needed.

You can see from the video there are live brine shrimp swimming about but she is not interested.

I noticed the throat (white area) next to the bottom of the gills is extremely pinched. I just checked Tinky and his is nice and round in that area. I suspect this to be either the cause or related to the cause of the issues.

We are today attempting hand feeding - she has naturally assumed a tail down posture - probably to preserve energy. This at least presents her mouth upwards - she does (sometimes) make an effort to open her mouth but she will not attempt to take food. Or she is unable to. Sad.

 

[christinna77]

Here's her current situation. The tank is small but it's all we've got. The water is from the system she was in. Temp is 25.1C pH is about 8 (Milwaukee probe). Same as our 6ft and the display she came from. I checked salinity and it has not creeped yet but I'm ready to add some RO when needed.

You can see from the video there are live brine shrimp swimming about but she is not interested.

I noticed the throat (white area) next to the bottom of the gills is extremely pinched. I just checked Tinky and his is nice and round in that area. I suspect this to be either the cause or related to the cause of the issues.

We are today attempting hand feeding - she has naturally assumed a tail down posture - probably to preserve energy. This at least presents her mouth upwards - she does (sometimes) make an effort to open her mouth but she will not attempt to take food. Or she is unable to. Sad.

I think I would look into force feeding at this point. I don't think you've got anything to lose by trying.

I've personally force fed only non fish animals before, but Jay wrote this article on that:

Article 'Tube / Force Feeding Fish'

Tube Feeding Techniques for Fish Jay Hemdal c. 2021 Syringe with catheter attached. Here is an all too familiar scenario: an aquarist faced with trying to care for a new, expensive fish that tragically refuses to accept any food. Common sense dictates that fish need food in order to...

• Jay Hemdal
• Jul 30, 2021
• 10 min read
• 5.00 star(s) 2 ratings
• Reaction score: 8
• Category: Fish Disease and Treatment
• force feeding medicated food

 

[AstroMelly]

I think I would look into force feeding at this point. I don't think you've got anything to lose by trying.

I've personally force fed only non fish animals before, but Jay wrote this article on that:

Article 'Tube / Force Feeding Fish'

Tube Feeding Techniques for Fish Jay Hemdal c. 2021 Syringe with catheter attached. Here is an all too familiar scenario: an aquarist faced with trying to care for a new, expensive fish that tragically refuses to accept any food. Common sense dictates that fish need food in order to...

• Jay Hemdal
• Jul 30, 2021
• 10 min read
• 5.00 star(s) 2 ratings
• Reaction score: 8
• Category: Fish Disease and Treatment
• force feeding medicated food

Thanks Christina. We've moved on from trying frozen mysis in tweezers to pipetting bbs. She does open her mouth occasionally but we're not actually getting anything into her.

I'm not afraid to try force feeding to try and save her but I'll have to source some suitable tubing - syringes I may have but maybe not that fit the tubing. I guess we would be looking at 2-3mm OD and maybe 1-1.5mm ID.

I skim read the article already and I'll deeper read it again this evening.

All the best to you and your own battles!

 

[AstroMelly]

She’s made it through another night - we added a dozen or so more adult brine shrimp yesterday evening.

Seems more active this morning - when I came down just now she was swimming / hovering horizontally at the top of the tank. As soon as I took the side covers off the tank she resumed her vertical posture. I may return the side covers as she seemed more relaxed before.

I have ordered some Esha NDX to treat for nematodes as this is one of the few medications I can obtain in the UK that treats a condition that matches her symptoms.

Just interested what you thought of that at this stage Jay? Medication is arriving today.

I’ve decided not to pursue the force feeding route. I don’t want to distress the fish - if it comes to it I would prefer her to pass in peace.

We will continue with pipettes and small food items but I think if she’s not going for live foods this may be fruitless.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

She’s made it through another night - we added a dozen or so more adult brine shrimp yesterday evening.

Seems more active this morning - when I came down just now she was swimming / hovering horizontally at the top of the tank. As soon as I took the side covers off the tank she resumed her vertical posture. I may return the side covers as she seemed more relaxed before.

I have ordered some Esha NDX to treat for nematodes as this is one of the few medications I can obtain in the UK that treats a condition that matches her symptoms.

Just interested what you thought of that at this stage Jay? Medication is arriving today.

I’ve decided not to pursue the force feeding route. I don’t want to distress the fish - if it comes to it I would prefer her to pass in peace.

We will continue with pipettes and small food items but I think if she’s not going for live foods this may be fruitless.

I’ve not used that product on this species. It contains levamisole that does work well against nematodes.

 

[AstroMelly]

She’s made it through another night - we added a dozen or so more adult brine shrimp yesterday evening.

Seems more active this morning - when I came down just now she was swimming / hovering horizontally at the top of the tank. As soon as I took the side covers off the tank she resumed her vertical posture. I may return the side covers as she seemed more relaxed before.

I have ordered some Esha NDX to treat for nematodes as this is one of the few medications I can obtain in the UK that treats a condition that matches her symptoms.

Just interested what you thought of that at this stage Jay? Medication is arriving today.

I’ve decided not to pursue the force feeding route. I don’t want to distress the fish - if it comes to it I would prefer her to pass in peace.

We will continue with pipettes and small food items but I think if she’s not going for live foods this may be fruitless.

How about nematodes as a potential diagnosis?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Could be - but accurate diagnosis of nematodes can only be made during necropsy.