New tilefish pair - one eating, one not

[AstroMelly]

Hi all! Specifically @Jay Hemdal and @christinna77

We added a pair of purple tilefish to our Neptunian MP-90 last weekend (Sunday) along with a McCoskers wrasse. Previous tankmates were/are (all fairly well established):

Snowflake eel (25cm) - tank is hence jump-proof
Pair of spotcinctus clowns
Lemon peel angel
Falco Hawkfish
Blue spotted puffer (added 3 weeks prior - settled)
Chocolate chip starfish
Pincushion urchin
3 x Tectus snails

EDIT: Adding some additional info:
Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Fish-only + inverts
Aquarium water volume: 320 litres total (210 litres display)
Filtration type - roller mat + MarinePure biological
Lighting - Fluval 4.0 Reef LED light
How long has the aquarium been established? 6 months as marine
Video supplied below.

Water quality
Temperature 25.3 C - 25.7 C
pH: unknown
Salinity / specific gravity - 1.025
Ammonia - assumed to be 0
Nitrite - assumed to be 0
Nitrate - < 5 ppm (last tested 1 month ago)
Phosphorus - not tested
Copper - not tested

The introduction seemed to go very well - considering the jumpy nature of the new fish I made the executive decision to forego water acclimation and only ran a 20 minute temperature acclimation in the unopened bag. The fish were exhibiting animated behaviour in the floating bag and I did not want to put them in a bucket or do a 30-40 minute cup acclimation in the bag in the tank (as we usually do). They were released into the tank after netting and immediately started swimming together. After a few hours we fed the tank and we believed to our amazement both fish were eating - however it seems likely now after 1 week of observation that probably only 1 of them was actually eating at that time.

We have broken the 2 week rule and named them Tinky (eating well, active and seems very healthy) and Winky (not eating and displaying behavioural issues).

Throughout the week we have generally had lights on in the tank on the normal schedule - the light is not a high powered reef light and so is not super bright - it is a Fluval Reef 4.0 LED. Tinky does not seem to be at all bothered by the lights - he has also been sleeping in the base of the tank - even on the first night - under the rockwork to begin with and latterly among the substrate. Winky however has a default home position (top-right) next to the Neptunian tank badge where he stays pretty much all the time - apart from at night when he does appear to retreat to the base, although he seems to do this later than Tinky.

Tinky will join him at his home position during the day and seems to be trying to persuade Winky to move away - which he sometimes does. When the lights were on Winky would rapidly become visibly distressed head-bob and spit which I now know is a sign of stress. Basically we have determined that the lights are a source of stress for Winky.

On Saturday we added a substrate to the tank (it was bare bottom for 6 months) as we wanted to provide a more natural home for the tilefish (and also to improve the overall look). The substrate is aragonite and was well washed. Particle size is about 1-3mm. The water is now clear and the substrate depth is between 1 and 3 inches.

While doing this we had lights off for several hours and when lights went back on Winky started to display his stress behaviours so since then we have had lights off (we are on day two of lights off 24x7). Even the TV which is a large screen near the tank appears to disturb him, although Steve the Falco Hawk loves to watch it!

I should add that the newly added wrasse (added at the same time as the tilefish) has been part of this threesome for most of the first week and appears to have been well accepted by the tilefish - he is often swimming/hovering near/with them with no apparent issues.

So the main issue is Winky is not eating. At feeding time we do see some interest - but this is mostly because the mate has moved to the corner where we feed the tank. We have tried targeting with food but there appears to be no response. Now we are 7 days in and I can see signs of him becoming emaciated.

Foods we are feeding this tank (regular feeds twice daily - used to be dried foods at lunchtime and frozen in the evening but we are now feeding a mix at both times):
TDO pellets, flake, frozen mysis, red plankton (every 2-3 days max), frozen copepods, frozen krill. Some live copepods have also been added.

Tinky has mouthed the TDO pellets and the flake but always spits it out. He loves the mysis and I'm sure he is taking the smaller items also.

Water chemistry is good - this is a 6 month tank now. The total water volume is about 320 litres and the display is 3ft x 2ft x 2ft. All other fish are dong fine and settled into rhythm and living/sleeping spaces. We are also running a 6ft reef tank - coming up to 5yrs in.

Salinity is 1.025
Nitrate was <5 ppm last checked a month ago but should not be an issue. I don't generally test for ammonia or nitrite any more but I have Salifert kits in case.

Filtration is RedSea roller mat and biological media seeded for several years in our larger reef tank. We are not yet running a skimmer although I have one ready to add. There is an airstone running 24x7 in the sump.

I have made a video linked below just now when my wife was feeding the tank. I can make more videos/pictures on request. For now the lights are staying off.

I thought maybe intestinal flukes / tapeworm could be the issue. This is solely based on AI responses so could be garbage. As a result I obtained some Praziquantel (we cannot easily obtain PraziPro in the UK so I have Vetark FlukeSolve on hand). My thinking was also that Tinky is eating so healthily in comparison - how could it be intestinal parasites? But I have also read that it is common for specific fish in the same batches to be affected and other to not be affected at all. Again this could be nonsense. There were 4 tilefish in the shop and they were all hovering verticallyt tail down together.

My thinking is this is behavioural (my wife agrees and she is usually right) so I was reluctant to treat the display tank with Prazi. If I do I will remove the starfish and the urchin to the reef tank temporarily. Another option is to separate Winky to a tiny 22 litre tank we have but again I am reluctant to do this to an already nervous and possibly stressed fish that is now beginning to starve. Making this smaller tank jump proof will also be challenging - it has a loosely fitting glass lid. Without solid evidence of intestinal parasites I am reluctant to treat - we have never used parziquantal before.

Sorry for the long post but I know it's best to get as much information as possible up front. I'll review the pre-post checklist for fish health posts and add anything that is missing.

Hopefully someone can help us!
Thanks
Iain

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi all! Specifically @Jay Hemdal and @christinna77

We added a pair of purple tilefish to our Neptunian MP-90 last weekend (Sunday) along with a McCoskers wrasse. Previous tankmates were/are (all fairly well established):

Snowflake eel (25cm) - tank is hence jump-proof
Pair of spotcinctus clowns
Lemon peel angel
Falco Hawkfish
Blue spotted puffer (added 3 weeks prior - settled)
Chocolate chip starfish
Pincushion urchin
3 x Tectus snails

The introduction seemed to go very well - considering the jumpy nature of the new fish I made the executive decision to forego water acclimation and only ran a 20 minute temperature acclimation in the unopened bag. The fish were exhibiting animated behaviour in the floating bag and I did not want to put them in a bucket or do a 30-40 minute cup acclimation in the bag in the tank (as we usually do). They were released into the tank after netting and immediately started swimming together. After a few hours we fed the tank and we believed to our amazement both fish were eating - however it seems likely now after 1 week of observation that probably only 1 of them was actually eating at that time.

We have broken the 2 week rule and named them Tinky (eating well, active and seems very healthy) and Winky (not eating and displaying behavioural issues).

Throughout the week we have generally had lights on in the tank on the normal schedule - the light is not a high powered reef light and so is not super bright - it is a Fluval Reef 4.0 LED. Tinky does not seem to be at all bothered by the lights - he has also been sleeping in the base of the tank - even on the first night - under the rockwork to begin with and latterly among the substrate. Winky however has a default home position (top-right) next to the Neptunian tank badge where he stays pretty much all the time - apart from at night when he does appear to retreat to the base, although he seems to do this later than Tinky.

Tinky will join him at his home position during the day and seems to be trying to persuade Winky to move away - which he sometimes does. When the lights were on Winky would rapidly become visibly distressed head-bob and spit which I now know is a sign of stress. Basically we have determined that the lights are a source of stress for Winky.

On Saturday we added a substrate to the tank (it was bare bottom for 6 months) as we wanted to provide a more natural home for the tilefish (and also to improve the overall look). The substrate is aragonite and was well washed. Particle size is about 1-3mm. The water is now clear and the substrate depth is between 1 and 3 inches.

While doing this we had lights off for several hours and when lights went back on Winky started to display his stress behaviours so since then we have had lights off (we are on day two of lights off 24x7). Even the TV which is a large screen near the tank appears to disturb him, although Steve the Falco Hawk loves to watch it!

I should add that the newly added wrasse (added at the same time as the tilefish) has been part of this threesome for most of the first week and appears to have been well accepted by the tilefish - he is often swimming/hovering near/with them with no apparent issues.

So the main issue is Winky is not eating. At feeding time we do see some interest - but this is mostly because the mate has moved to the corner where we feed the tank. We have tried targeting with food but there appears to be no response. Now we are 7 days in and I can see signs of him becoming emaciated.

Foods we are feeding this tank (regular feeds twice daily - used to be dried foods at lunchtime and frozen in the evening but we are now feeding a mix at both times):
TDO pellets, flake, frozen mysis, red plankton (every 2-3 days max), frozen copepods, frozen krill. Some live copepods have also been added.

Tinky has mouthed the TDO pellets and the flake but always spits it out. He loves the mysis and I'm sure he is taking the smaller items also.

Water chemistry is good - this is a 6 month tank now. The total water volume is about 320 litres and the display is 3ft x 2ft x 2ft. All other fish are dong fine and settled into rhythm and living/sleeping spaces. We are also running a 6ft reef tank - coming up to 5yrs in.

Salinity is 1.025
Nitrate was <5 ppm last checked a month ago but should not be an issue. I don't generally test for ammonia or nitrite any more but I have Salifert kits in case.

Filtration is RedSea roller mat and biological media seeded for several years in our larger reef tank. We are not yet running a skimmer although I have one ready to add. There is an airstone running 24x7 in the sump.

I have made a video linked below just now when my wife was feeding the tank. I can make more videos/pictures on request. For now the lights are staying off.

I thought maybe intestinal flukes / tapeworm could be the issue. This is solely based on AI responses so could be garbage. As a result I obtained some Praziquantel (we cannot easily obtain PraziPro in the UK so I have Vetark FlukeSolve on hand). My thinking was also that Tinky is eating so healthily in comparison - how could it be intestinal parasites? But I have also read that it is common for specific fish in the same batches to be affected and other to not be affected at all. Again this could be nonsense. There were 4 tilefish in the shop and they were all hovering verticallyt tail down together.

My thinking is this is behavioural (my wife agrees and she is usually right) so I was reluctant to treat the display tank with Prazi. If I do I will remove the starfish and the urchin to the reef tank temporarily. Another option is to separate Winky to a tiny 22 litre tank we have but again I am reluctant to do this to an already nervous and possibly stressed fish that is now beginning to starve. Making this smaller tank jump proof will also be challenging - it has a loosely fitting glass lid. Without solid evidence of intestinal parasites I am reluctant to treat - we have never used parziquantal before.

Sorry for the long post but I know it's best to get as much information as possible up front. I'll review the pre-post checklist for fish health posts and add anything that is missing.

Hopefully someone can help us!
Thanks
Iain

The addition of sand can lower the ph of the water as well as causing stress from sudden environmental changes for which these fish can be sensitive. If you dis not rinse sand, the dust suspended temporarily can have a temporary impact on the,. Also if you dont have one, have a cover as these fish can be jumpers

 

[AstroMelly]

The addition of sand can lower the ph of the water as well as causing stress from sudden environmental changes for which these fish can be sensitive. If you dis not rinse sand, the dust suspended temporarily can have a temporary impact on the,. Also if you dont have one, have a cover as these fish can be jumpers

Thanks for your reply Vetteguy!

As in the OP - tank is heavily jump-proofed due to the snowflake but good advice nonetheless.

The sand was well rinsed - my wife spent several hours rinsing - I think she did 8 rinses with tap and a final clean with RO. Inevitable cloudy water was clear by the next morning - it wasn't too bad. I can test pH.

Cheers.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi all! Specifically @Jay Hemdal and @christinna77

We added a pair of purple tilefish to our Neptunian MP-90 last weekend (Sunday) along with a McCoskers wrasse. Previous tankmates were/are (all fairly well established):

Snowflake eel (25cm) - tank is hence jump-proof
Pair of spotcinctus clowns
Lemon peel angel
Falco Hawkfish
Blue spotted puffer (added 3 weeks prior - settled)
Chocolate chip starfish
Pincushion urchin
3 x Tectus snails

EDIT: Adding some additional info:
Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: Fish-only + inverts
Aquarium water volume: 320 litres total (210 litres display)
Filtration type - roller mat + MarinePure biological
Lighting - Fluval 4.0 Reef LED light
How long has the aquarium been established? 6 months as marine
Video supplied below.

Water quality
Temperature 25.3 C - 25.7 C
pH: unknown
Salinity / specific gravity - 1.025
Ammonia - assumed to be 0
Nitrite - assumed to be 0
Nitrate - < 5 ppm (last tested 1 month ago)
Phosphorus - not tested
Copper - not tested

The introduction seemed to go very well - considering the jumpy nature of the new fish I made the executive decision to forego water acclimation and only ran a 20 minute temperature acclimation in the unopened bag. The fish were exhibiting animated behaviour in the floating bag and I did not want to put them in a bucket or do a 30-40 minute cup acclimation in the bag in the tank (as we usually do). They were released into the tank after netting and immediately started swimming together. After a few hours we fed the tank and we believed to our amazement both fish were eating - however it seems likely now after 1 week of observation that probably only 1 of them was actually eating at that time.

We have broken the 2 week rule and named them Tinky (eating well, active and seems very healthy) and Winky (not eating and displaying behavioural issues).

Throughout the week we have generally had lights on in the tank on the normal schedule - the light is not a high powered reef light and so is not super bright - it is a Fluval Reef 4.0 LED. Tinky does not seem to be at all bothered by the lights - he has also been sleeping in the base of the tank - even on the first night - under the rockwork to begin with and latterly among the substrate. Winky however has a default home position (top-right) next to the Neptunian tank badge where he stays pretty much all the time - apart from at night when he does appear to retreat to the base, although he seems to do this later than Tinky.

Tinky will join him at his home position during the day and seems to be trying to persuade Winky to move away - which he sometimes does. When the lights were on Winky would rapidly become visibly distressed head-bob and spit which I now know is a sign of stress. Basically we have determined that the lights are a source of stress for Winky.

On Saturday we added a substrate to the tank (it was bare bottom for 6 months) as we wanted to provide a more natural home for the tilefish (and also to improve the overall look). The substrate is aragonite and was well washed. Particle size is about 1-3mm. The water is now clear and the substrate depth is between 1 and 3 inches.

While doing this we had lights off for several hours and when lights went back on Winky started to display his stress behaviours so since then we have had lights off (we are on day two of lights off 24x7). Even the TV which is a large screen near the tank appears to disturb him, although Steve the Falco Hawk loves to watch it!

I should add that the newly added wrasse (added at the same time as the tilefish) has been part of this threesome for most of the first week and appears to have been well accepted by the tilefish - he is often swimming/hovering near/with them with no apparent issues.

So the main issue is Winky is not eating. At feeding time we do see some interest - but this is mostly because the mate has moved to the corner where we feed the tank. We have tried targeting with food but there appears to be no response. Now we are 7 days in and I can see signs of him becoming emaciated.

Foods we are feeding this tank (regular feeds twice daily - used to be dried foods at lunchtime and frozen in the evening but we are now feeding a mix at both times):
TDO pellets, flake, frozen mysis, red plankton (every 2-3 days max), frozen copepods, frozen krill. Some live copepods have also been added.

Tinky has mouthed the TDO pellets and the flake but always spits it out. He loves the mysis and I'm sure he is taking the smaller items also.

Water chemistry is good - this is a 6 month tank now. The total water volume is about 320 litres and the display is 3ft x 2ft x 2ft. All other fish are dong fine and settled into rhythm and living/sleeping spaces. We are also running a 6ft reef tank - coming up to 5yrs in.

Salinity is 1.025
Nitrate was <5 ppm last checked a month ago but should not be an issue. I don't generally test for ammonia or nitrite any more but I have Salifert kits in case.

Filtration is RedSea roller mat and biological media seeded for several years in our larger reef tank. We are not yet running a skimmer although I have one ready to add. There is an airstone running 24x7 in the sump.

I have made a video linked below just now when my wife was feeding the tank. I can make more videos/pictures on request. For now the lights are staying off.

I thought maybe intestinal flukes / tapeworm could be the issue. This is solely based on AI responses so could be garbage. As a result I obtained some Praziquantel (we cannot easily obtain PraziPro in the UK so I have Vetark FlukeSolve on hand). My thinking was also that Tinky is eating so healthily in comparison - how could it be intestinal parasites? But I have also read that it is common for specific fish in the same batches to be affected and other to not be affected at all. Again this could be nonsense. There were 4 tilefish in the shop and they were all hovering verticallyt tail down together.

My thinking is this is behavioural (my wife agrees and she is usually right) so I was reluctant to treat the display tank with Prazi. If I do I will remove the starfish and the urchin to the reef tank temporarily. Another option is to separate Winky to a tiny 22 litre tank we have but again I am reluctant to do this to an already nervous and possibly stressed fish that is now beginning to starve. Making this smaller tank jump proof will also be challenging - it has a loosely fitting glass lid. Without solid evidence of intestinal parasites I am reluctant to treat - we have never used parziquantal before.

Sorry for the long post but I know it's best to get as much information as possible up front. I'll review the pre-post checklist for fish health posts and add anything that is missing.

Hopefully someone can help us!
Thanks
Iain

I’ll wait for @christinna77 to weigh in, as I’ve learned that keeping these in groups or pairs adds some issues that I was previously unaware of since in my entire career, I’ve only kept one at a time!

Some side notes; prazi only treats tapeworms. Those do not cause fish to stop feeding. Some other internal parasites, like coccidea do, but prazi doesn’t treat them.

Adding the sand might raise the pH a little, but the main issue would be the mechanical disruption and the stress that can cause.

Do you have an isolation tank you could move the fish to?

 

[AstroMelly]

Hi Jay

As in the OP we do have a 20 litre tank - it's basically a foot cube - but I'm reluctant to isolate due to the reasons mentioned above. It's a loosely fitting glass lid so would have to jump proof it. It's also a very small tank - I could underfill it to try and reduce the risk of jumping but looking at Christinna's videos scares the hell out of me. There is basically a 1cm gap all across the front and the rear that I would have to try and block with mesh or something else.

I can set it up and be ready - but why would you advise isolating? I'm interested in justifications. I was thinking if stress related this could only make things worse. Or are you suggesting the pairing may in fact be part of the problem?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi Jay

As in the OP we do have a 20 litre tank - it's basically a foot cube - but I'm reluctant to isolate due to the reasons mentioned above. It's a loosely fitting glass lid so would have to jump proof it. It's also a very small tank - I could underfill it to try and reduce the risk of jumping but looking at Christinna's videos scares the hell out of me. There is basically a 1cm gap all across the front and the rear that I would have to try and block with mesh or something else.

I can set it up and be ready - but why would you advise isolating? I'm interested in justifications. I was thinking if stress related this could only make things worse. Or are you suggesting the pairing may in fact be part of the problem?

I’m worried that the pair dynamics plays a bigger part with these fish than I would have thought.

When you have a fish that is not eating, leaving it where it is, and hoping that it will start usually is fruitless. Moving it allows you to spot feed it, control lighting and eliminate chances of the other tilefish bothering it. In addition, you can treat it if need be. However, your iso tank seems pretty small.

Another issue - the suspicion is that almost all of these tilefish are caught with cyanide. That in turn causes latent mortality in a subset of those fish. A primary symptom of this is failure to feed.

 

[AstroMelly]

I’m worried that the pair dynamics plays a bigger part with these fish than I would have thought.

When you have a fish that is not eating, leaving it where it is, and hoping that it will start usually is fruitless. Moving it allows you to spot feed it, control lighting and eliminate chances of the other tilefish bothering it. In addition, you can treat it if need be. However, your iso tank seems pretty small.

Another issue - the suspicion is that almost all of these tilefish are caught with cyanide. That in turn causes latent mortality in a subset of those fish. A primary symptom of this is failure to feed.

Thank you for your valuable input Jay.

We know they were in store for 3 weeks prior to us purchasing (there were 4), and obviously were held at the wholesalers before that (TMC in the UK). I will set the isolation tank up dry and assess for jump-ability. I've got a 3D printer so I may be able to print front/rear fins/ledges to close those gaps.

In the meantime Christinna's input would be very much appreciated although I know she is travelling atm and has her own set of purple tilefish problems to deal with!

Thanks again! I'll update as and when.

 

[christinna77]

Not traveling yet! Next week :)

First, about the fish. All the fish you added before the tilefish are semi-aggressive. Tilefish usually do best when they're added first or kept with very peaceful tankmates. I've even seen mine get stressed by my starry blenny, who wasn't afraid to swim up and nip at him. I've since rehomed my yellow tang and borbonius anthias as well, and really believe that really keeping the tank as peaceful as possible allowed mine to thrive.

I also think it's important to place these fish in an observation tank. That gives them time to settle in and start eating well without anything bothering them. I'd also highly recommend treating with Prazi. I've had four tilefish so far and every single one had flukes from what I observed...

About the head bobbing and spitting, I want to reassure you a little. Mine still does it sometimes, even with the lights off. He doesn't do it all day, but he'll come up to the surface and "surf" for a few minutes, then go back to hovering. I think it's just how he is. My wrasse picked up the same behavior and sometimes joins him too...



Regarding the lights, I kept them off in the quarantine tank, as mine was definitely sensitive to them too. Even turning on a light in the next room at night would scare him into darting around.

Once I moved him to the display tank, I kept the tank lights on, but I have lots of caves and overhangs where it's quite dark and where he can hide without anything else bothering him. I still had to be really careful at night because any outside light would spook him.

Even now, he gets annoyed when my desk lamp is on after the tank lights go out. He'll swim into the corner and stare at me until I turn it off or cover the tank for the night... That said, every tilefish is different. My yellow tilefish had no issues with them.

Even though you mentioned your lights aren't super bright, yours probably still needs time to adjust (good you turned them off for now). Does your tank have plenty of caves and overhangs where he can safely hide from the light, and where no other fish bothers him? I'm glad you added sand too! Mine loves digging and excavating underneath the rockwork.

Regarding pellets, it took me several months to train mine to eat them. They also need to be softened. I soak them for around 30 minutes with my Plank feeder. Otherwise, mine will often spit them out.

The food my tilefish goes craziest for is LRS Reef Frenzy. There's something about that food they really love. I've never seen mine hunt copepods. He sometimes looks like he's hunting in the sand, but I've never actually seen him eat an amphipod. Maybe he does it when I'm not looking. I find feeding 4 times a day works the best.

Regarding pairing tilefish, I've always heard they're extremely peaceful and do well in groups, but my experience has been a little different...

I've had two purple tilefish in my quarantine tank for almost two months. The smaller one has always eaten very aggressively, while the larger one has been harder to convince to come out and eat.

I never saw anything happen while I was in the room, but the tank camera showed some fairly aggressive pairing behavior. The smaller one would swim up to the larger one and repeatedly nip him around the cheek or head.

They would still hover together and the larger one didn't seem to care or swim away. I decided to separate them, twice now, because the larger one stopped eating, although that could've been because of the flukes too.

The flukes themselves were also strange. The smaller tilefish showed almost no symptoms, while the larger one showed most of them. For some reason, the flukes seemed to affect the larger one much more. You would've never known the smaller one was infected too...

So it could definitely be flukes, especially if you've noticed any head shaking, body twitching or yawning where it almost looks like they're trying to cough them out. Mine would flash pretty infrequently, so I wouldn't based my diagnosis off of that.

20l quarantine tank seems very small. I'd be a bit hesitant to move both of them into it, so I'd probably only move the one that's not eating.

Moving is always very stressful and try to avoid it at all costs with tilefish, but it's been a week now, so I'd probably pull the trigger on it. Sorry, I'm not really sure else what I'd recommend at this point. All I know is that tilefish can be quite moody with food and they can stop eating if anything in the tank seems wrong or if another fish just looks at them the wrong way.

 

[AstroMelly]

Hey Christinna!

Thanks so much for your attention and detailed response!

First off - the tank mates - I admit it does read as a semi aggressive tank mate list but breaking it down: The eel sleeps all day - when she comes out at feeding time - usually in the evening - she is a little clumsy (poor sight) and I’ve seen her chase the fishes tails thinking it’s food but never witnessed a bite. The fish have learnt to steer clear of her although the puffer doesn’t seem to care getting too close and she hasn’t been bothered by her either. Actually I think Tinky has a spot right next to the eel’s favourite spot at the base of one of the larger rocks. Of course the tank is different at night but I would hedge on the eel being pretty ok with the newcomers. We have started to target feed the eel with larger items so hopefully we will be target feeding her (her name is Elsie) larger stuff 2-3 times a week soon instead of letting her scrounge up what she can find daily.

The puffer is adorable and I caught her the other night snuggling up with the new wrasse we added this week at the bottom corner of the tank. She is young and only 1.5 inches.

The clowns as ever have an aggressive streak but I’ve only seen them chasing the wrasse this week. They have been especially wary of the tilefish - size being the main factor I think.

The only real trouble we have had with aggression in this tank has been Dolly the lemon peel angel who was a proper ***** when she first went in. She harassed the hawkfish Steve - who is a little dear - and he didn’t eat for a week - but then he worked out he can just swim away and now she still tries it with him but you can almost hear the sighing and tutting from across the room. Steve is now one of the best eaters in the tank and swims up to the porthole waiting for me to drop food in.

Dolly has mellowed significantly and when we added the puffer we noticed a distinct change in her behaviour. The puffer is small and she was immediately swimming with the new fish - very strange! This is partly what prompted us to consider a few new fish.

You’re right of course - a well thought out stocking plan is always the way forward - we haven’t had much luck quarantining so we never do so. I’ll blame my wife at this point - she spotted the tilefish and fell in love with them and since then so have I.

I think the size of the tilefish has a lot to do with the way they are viewed by the existing tank mates - they’re the biggest fish in there apart from the eel. Also Dolly is almost always at the base of the tank swimming in and around the rock work only occasionally swimming mid water. The two tilefish and the wrasse pretty much have the tank to themselves from mid way up to the top.

Yes we have quite a bit of rock work and it has plenty of negative space all the way up and at the base. I purposely left some spaces around the base with no substrate for the eel and the tilefish to sculpt.

We just ran to the fish shop and bought some live brine shrimp which we will try. We also got some more live pods although they are probably too small to tempt the tilefish.

I’m not sure we can get Larry’s Reef Frenzy over here in the UK but I will definitely look out for it! I’ve heard good things about it elsewhere. I wonder what’s in it!

The 20 litre tank was never a serious option for quarantining but it could work in a pinch for isolation - we bought it to raise clown fry from the larger reef tank but that’s a whole other story!

We will do our best to encourage Winky to take something - I tried pipetting a mix of mysis and copepods in garlic just now - no interest but Tinky and the wrasse enjoyed it!

I’ll do my best to keep the thread updated as well.

Good luck with your pair! I saw the head wound has healed really well!

Oh and your story about a Starry Blenny - we have had two in our 6ft reef and they are the most insane fish! Our current one we call Ariel cos of her funny antennae and she is totally crazy. She even lets me stroke her and is often sat with her head out the water by the weir. She also has chased and bitten some of the biggest fish in that tank and doesn’t seem to care about the consequences!

All the best!
Iain and Cathrine

 

[AstroMelly]

Quick update. Live brine shrimp has elicited a feeding response. The fish is mouthing and spitting but has managed to swallow several brine shrimp.

Hopefully a good sign!

 

[christinna77]

It sounds like you know what you're doing, and you know your fish better than anyone You can always set up a camera and check the footage after too, to make sure there's nobody bullying the tilefish.

Also, just a warning, tilefish will steal your heart. Before you know it, you'll have a whole tank full of them... :)

I'm so glad you got Winky feeding on live brine, that's amazing! I might try hatching some again too. Mine wasn't very interested last time, but maybe my two guys will be now.

Apologies for the short and delayed replies. It's been really busy with my own sick fish, and I'm also trying to get everything ready for my work trip next week. I just found out I might not have AC during the hottest days because of renovations in our building, and of course it's happening during the exact week I'm away. It never ends in this hobby

 

[AstroMelly]

Tried again with live brine shrimp today but no dice. Guess we just got lucky yesterday. The fish did seem like it was trying to swallow a couple of time so maybe it got something we didn’t see. The wrasse also was hiding all day today which isn’t good!

Oh god I love keeping fish!

 

[christinna77]

Tried again with live brine shrimp today but no dice. Guess we just got lucky yesterday. The fish did seem like it was trying to swallow a couple of time so maybe it got something we didn’t see. The wrasse also was hiding all day today which isn’t good!

Oh god I love keeping fish!

Sorry to hear he's not feeding again. You may want to consider the hospital tank, it's possible something is stressing him out or he's sick.

Also, were they pre-quarantined? Because all my tilefish so far came with flukes. Not sure if I just had a terrible luck (it was the same LFS) or if they're really prone to them...

 

[AstroMelly]

Personally I think stress most likely. If disease then I don’t know what but something intestinal would be my guess. Perhaps they just need to be separated for a while. I don’t see any head shaking or coughing/yawning as you described before for possible symptoms of flukes and their behaviour together as a pair does seem quite sympathetic to be honest but who knows! No they weren’t quarantined that’s not really a thing here in the UK - some retailers may say they have quarantined their fish but really I don’t think anyone over here does it properly - more like careful observation if you’re lucky. All we know is they were at the store for 3 weeks.

While I was reading your message they both suddenly engaged in a crazy jumping fit. Water everywhere and they knocked the chocolate chip starfish off the glass - and he is quite large. It was quite something to witness especially as I was sitting right next to the tank. I got splashed. The lights had been on dim blue for a couple of hours for the first time in 2 days and I think they had just had enough - maybe it was just me sitting nearby.

I’m going to give Winky a couple more days to get his/her act together - if the situation doesn’t improve then I’ll take some action.

Oh and the wrasse does seem to be on the way out. I think he hit his head the other day after getting spooked. Sigh

 

[christinna77]

Personally I think stress most likely. If disease then I don’t know what but something intestinal would be my guess. Perhaps they just need to be separated for a while. I don’t see any head shaking or coughing/yawning as you described before for possible symptoms of flukes and their behaviour together as a pair does seem quite sympathetic to be honest but who knows! No they weren’t quarantined that’s not really a thing here in the UK - some retailers may say they have quarantined their fish but really I don’t think anyone over here does it properly - more like careful observation if you’re lucky. All we know is they were at the store for 3 weeks.

While I was reading your message they both suddenly engaged in a crazy jumping fit. Water everywhere and they knocked the chocolate chip starfish off the glass - and he is quite large. It was quite something to witness especially as I was sitting right next to the tank. I got splashed. The lights had been on dim blue for a couple of hours for the first time in 2 days and I think they had just had enough - maybe it was just me sitting nearby.

I’m going to give Winky a couple more days to get his/her act together - if the situation doesn’t improve then I’ll take some action.

Oh and the wrasse does seem to be on the way out. I think he hit his head the other day after getting spooked. Sigh

Yeah, freaking out and jumping is totally normal for some tilefish during the first few weeks. I made a compilation here:



My skunk and purple tilefish behaved like this, while my yellow tilefish would hover near the bottom and never skim the surface like that (until one night when he got spooked by my shrimp, lifted the lid insert and jumped out, but that's a story for another time).

I kept mine in a tank with three sides completely covered, but they'd still randomly get spooked. A few times I saw one looking at his reflection in the glass, freaking out over it and going ballistic. I still don't know what he saw...

They also absolutely hated my phone camera. Something about it would really spook them every time I tried to record them. Luckily they started to calm down after the first month.

You mentioned he hasn't really eaten anything in a week, right? That's a long time and I'm not sure I'd wait much longer.

I'm so sorry about the wrasse. I believe something similar happened to my yellow tamarin. My curious tilefish accidentally unburied him at night in the QT, he freaked out, hit his head and was dead by morning. Poor little dude, he just started accepting frozen too.

 

[AstroMelly]

So after a bit more research on the Fluke Solve product I got hold of last week (apparently safe for starfish and urchins as it is pure Praziquantel at 50%) - I decided to treat the display.

Mixed it up with some tank water - it appears to dissolve readily into a milky liquid - a suspension I suppose - and added to the return chamber. I also disconnected the roller mat temporarily to allow the suspension to circulate. Also carbon was removed. There’s no skimmer on this system yet. Turned the air stone in the sump up to full - there’s a gyre breaking the surface in the display.

Spotted the wrasse this morning wedged in some rock work. He is still breathing but doesn’t look great.

The tilefish are out this morning as usual. Respiration and activity levels on a par with previous days. They are just chilling out together at Winky’s home spot by the tank badge.

Will update further as and when.

 

[AstroMelly]

Sadly the wrasse has passed. I did not expect him to recover having seen him struggling last night. Surprisingly he was still with us this morning but by midday he had gone.

All other tank mates seem unaffected by the medication. I don’t notice any changes in the tilefish at all. I suppose that’s one thing ruled out. The last bag of love brine went in today but still no interest. We will add some live copepods later.

I’ll reconnect the filter roller and turn the airstone flow down a bit before bed tonight.

 

[christinna77]

Sadly the wrasse has passed. I did not expect him to recover having seen him struggling last night. Surprisingly he was still with us this morning but by midday he had gone.

All other tank mates seem unaffected by the medication. I don’t notice any changes in the tilefish at all. I suppose that’s one thing ruled out. The last bag of love brine went in today but still no interest. We will add some live copepods later.

I’ll reconnect the filter roller and turn the airstone flow down a bit before bed tonight.

Sorry about the wrasse You could also try soaking frozen food in a little garlic. My tilefish seem to like the smell of it.

I think copepods might be a bit too small, but I had great success giving my skunk some tiny freshwater (I believe they were ghost) shrimp from my LFS as enrichment. At first he was terrified of them, but then his hunting instinct kicked in and he slurped them up. I wish I recorded it! It was in the quarantine tank too, though, so the small space made it easier for him to hunt them down.

Live white/black worms could work too, although I never personally tried them and they're a bit harder to get hands on.

 

[AstroMelly]

Sadly the wrasse has passed. I did not expect him to recover having seen him struggling last night. Surprisingly he was still with us this morning but by midday he had gone.

All other tank mates seem unaffected by the medication. I don’t notice any changes in the tilefish at all. I suppose that’s one thing ruled out. The last bag of love brine went in today but still no interest. We will add some live copepods later.

I’ll reconnect the filter roller and turn the airstone flow down a bit before bed tonight.

Sorry about the wrasse You could also try soaking frozen food in a little garlic. My tilefish seem to like the smell of it.

I think copepods might be a bit too small, but I had great success giving my skunk some tiny freshwater (I believe they were ghost) shrimp from my LFS as enrichment. At first he was terrified of them, but then his hunting instinct kicked in and he slurped them up. I wish I recorded it! It was in the quarantine tank too, though, so the small space made it easier for him to hunt them down.

Live white/black worms could work too, although I never personally tried them and they're a bit harder to get hands on.

Good shout on the ghost river shrimp I think I may be able to get some of those locally.

It’s been so hot in the UK and the live brine shrimp is not refrigerated in our LFS and so it doesn’t last long in the warm! Most stores in the UK don’t have AC!

 

[christinna77]

Good shout on the ghost river shrimp I think I may be able to get some of those locally.

It’s been so hot in the UK and the live brine shrimp is not refrigerated in our LFS and so it doesn’t last long in the warm! Most stores in the UK don’t have AC!

You can buy some eggs and hatch your own too. They usually take around 24h to hatch for me, and if you feed them within the next 24h, they're quite nutritious because of their yolk sac.