New vermited worm treatment?

[ScottB]

Do you have any feather duster/fan type worms? Im curious if this will wipe them out too, I have some pretty cool ones.

No, I don't and cannot assess that risk. You could spook them first so that they retract. My guess would be that their feeding tentacles are a bit more selective than a mucus net.

I can say that the following corals don't mind CaCO3 at all. Even direct shots via syringe.
Acropora
Zoanthids
Scoly and trachy
Tube anemone actually LOVES this treatment for some reason.

 

[Dj City]

Also...

Stirring the sandbed and using foods like reef roids brings them out right? Using the DIY Coral Snow helps feed the corals and the verminteds. How does the coral snow kill the verminteds?
Wouldn't the food and muck from the sand FEED them?

 

[TriggerFinger]

No, I don't and cannot assess that risk. You could spook them first so that they retract. My guess would be that their feeding tentacles are a bit more selective than a mucus net.

I can say that the following corals don't mind CaCO3 at all. Even direct shots via syringe.
Acropora
Zoanthids
Scoly and trachy
Tube anemone actually LOVES this treatment for some reason.

Thank you for your experience, it’s very helpful.

 

[TriggerFinger]

Also...

Stirring the sandbed and using foods like reef roids brings them out right? Using the DIY Coral Snow helps feed the corals and the verminteds. How does the coral snow kill the verminteds?
Wouldn't the food and muck from the sand FEED them?

It’s my understanding that the coral snow binds particulates in the water column; taking away their food source and/or binding up the mucus nets. I’m following to learn; so no direct experience.

 

[josephxsxn]

How does the coral snow kill the verminteds?
Wouldn't the food and muck from the sand FEED them?

While I dont have any proper answer id be happy to speculate wildly :D.. Thus far the forum lore seems to point to starving them out, but this makes little sense to me then as to why the larger ones remain. Could it be that the process takes more time for the larger ones to die off? or is something happening thats plugging up the tubes with to large of a particle size for the small snails..

 

[josephxsxn]

Just thinking on this some more, if you go read about Marine Snow on wiki it seems to be a biological export pump that sends carbon and other organics down to the layers of the oceans which dont get light, in effect feeding the deep seas. This does make me wonder if we are indeed making snow aggregates that then fall out of the water column or are better picked up by the skimmers perhaps.

It could make sense to do this then after your done feeding the tank for the day to catch and pull out as much food as possible. Thus preventing these vermited snails from having any food in the water to live and grow with.

 

[ScottB]

Also...

Stirring the sandbed and using foods like reef roids brings them out right? Using the DIY Coral Snow helps feed the corals and the verminteds. How does the coral snow kill the verminteds?
Wouldn't the food and muck from the sand FEED them?

If your definition of "DIY Coral Snow" is CaCO3, I'm comfortable saying it is not really considered as a nutrient for corals.

 

[josephxsxn]

If your definition of "DIY Coral Snow" is CaCO3, I'm comfortable saying it is not really considered as a nutrient for corals.

Marine/Coral snow in nature while is many other things of course then CaCO3, like dead phyto|zoo-plankton, etc does perform the aggregate function described; that is it collects and aggregates together smaller particles aggregating them into a larger particle that is more readily consumed by some filter feeders. So I believe while the CaCO3 may itself have no food value its more like a dinner plate collecting many types of food from the water column until its caught or is skimmed out.

 

[Brew12]

Just saw this thread, but 2 quick comments.

The DIY Coral Snow adds no nutritional value to the tank. It doesn't feed anything. The original Coral Snow product by Korallen-Zucht that the DIY version gets its name from is a water clarifier. It is much different than marine snow.

I tried this for about 2 months without much luck. At most it slowed the rate of reproduction. However, around 3 months later, they went away on their own for the most part. No idea why. I know some people who claim this worked for them, and plenty of others that said it had no impact. I can't say for sure that it won't work, but it feels like something where correlation does not necessarily equal causation.

 

[fishface NJ]

Hey so am I!!!! Can you tell me which one? I am in central NJ and usually go to ACC.

I purchased my bumblebees from Petco on Rt 9 Morganville....Rt 9 & Newmans Spring Rd
Give Petco that is closer to you a call to see if they have them in stock. I know the Petco I visit will order for me live stock that they don't have and your Petco may do the same

 

[Dj City]

If your definition of "DIY Coral Snow" is CaCO3, I'm comfortable saying it is not really considered as a nutrient for corals.

I think you are missing my point.
I know the coral snow has no nutritional value.
The point i am trying to make and the question I have is...

Stirring the sand gets food for them into the water column. That's why they extend their nets.

How does adding coral snow "starve" them if you just released a large food source?

Coral snow is supposed to aid in feeding of corals by binding food particles for easier capture by corals right?

If that's correct, then how does coral snow help kill verminteds?
Don't the verminteds get MORE food by using the coral snow?

 

[ScottB]

Just saw this thread, but 2 quick comments.

The DIY Coral Snow adds no nutritional value to the tank. It doesn't feed anything. The original Coral Snow product by Korallen-Zucht that the DIY version gets its name from is a water clarifier. It is much different than marine snow.

I tried this for about 2 months without much luck. At most it slowed the rate of reproduction. However, around 3 months later, they went away on their own for the most part. No idea why. I know some people who claim this worked for them, and plenty of others that said it had no impact. I can't say for sure that it won't work, but it feels like something where correlation does not necessarily equal causation.

I will happily note any speculation you may have about changes that lead to their demise. I've had them for years and years. Eventually I end up sawing the sticks off and bleaching the rock. One rock every month or so.

 

[Brew12]

I think you are missing my point.
I know the coral snow has no nutritional value.
The point i am trying to make and the question I have is...

Stirring the sand gets food for them into the water column. That's why they extend their nets.

How does adding coral snow "starve" them is you just released a land food source?

Coral snow is supposed to aid in feeding of corals by binding food particles for easier capture by corals right?

If that's correct, then how does coral snow help kill verminteds?
Don't the verminteds get MORE food by using the coral snow?

The concept is that the CaCO3 powder clogs their nets and make it so they cannot use them to collect food.

 

[Brew12]

I will happily note any speculation you may have about changes that lead to their demise. I've had them for years and years. Eventually I end up sawing the sticks off and bleaching the rock. One rock every month or so.

I think it is possible my short spine urchin's are feeding on their shells but I can't confirm that.

 

[ScottB]

I think you are missing my point.
I know the coral snow has no nutritional value.
The point i am trying to make and the question I have is...

Stirring the sand gets food for them into the water column. That's why they extend their nets.

How does adding coral snow "starve" them is you just released a land food source?

Coral snow is supposed to aid in feeding of corals by binding food particles for easier capture by corals right?

If that's correct, then how does coral snow help kill verminteds?
Don't the verminteds get MORE food by using the coral snow?

I suppose the logic of this method is that you are contaminating their meal with limestone. If they consume enough of it, often enough, it gums up the works. It would be like downing a bottle of Tums antacid with every meal. Literally.

Perhaps there is a secondary benefit against vermetids in that as a flocculant that removes nutrient from the system via socks and skimmer.

And I don't know if this really works but I have noticed no harm so far.

 

[Brew12]

I think you are missing my point.
I know the coral snow has no nutritional value.
The point i am trying to make and the question I have is...

Stirring the sand gets food for them into the water column. That's why they extend their nets.

How does adding coral snow "starve" them if you just released a large food source?

Coral snow is supposed to aid in feeding of corals by binding food particles for easier capture by corals right?

If that's correct, then how does coral snow help kill verminteds?
Don't the verminteds get MORE food by using the coral snow?

I should have explained a little further.....

You stir up the sand to trigger a feeding response. The CaCO3 powder clogs the nets making them worthless. The snails then need to expend the energy to shed the old mucus and generate a new mucus net to attempt to feed again. By repeating this day after day the goal is to get the snails to expend more energy than they can bring in as food until they are starved out.

And I can't stress enough... Coral Snow is a Korallen-Zucht product designed as a water clarifier. It has absolutely no connection with marine snow, or products like reef snow which are food sources. It is really an unfortunate name imo because this does cause a lot of confusion. I'm sure it got the name because its a white powder that gets blown around, but it looks nothing like snow.

 

[ScottB]

I think it is possible my short spine urchin's are feeding on their shells but I can't confirm that.

That makes some sense. I get more vermetids in the cracks/crevices that are inaccessible.

 

[Brew12]

That makes some sense. I get more vermetids in the cracks/crevices that are inaccessible.

It's the only thing I can think of because the shells and all have pretty much gone. I can't rule out my emerald crabs break the stem off to get at the snails but I find that a stretch.

 

[josephxsxn]

And I can't stress enough... Coral Snow is a Korallen-Zucht product designed as a water clarifier. It has absolutely no connection with marine snow, or products like reef snow which are food sources. It is really an unfortunate name imo because this does cause a lot of confusion. I'm sure it got the name because its a white powder that gets blown around, but it looks nothing like snow.

For what it's worth the Brightwell Reef Snow is marketed as a food for corals, clams and other feeders, but in addition to CaCO3 base it has other organics enriched with it. So while we are not enriching the CaC03 pre-tank it's imho gathering stuff in the water.

Brightwell Aquatics Reef Snow effectively replicates the concept of marine snow by combining a “core substrate” of carbonate-bound, non-conservative major, minor, and trace elements (all in aragonite ratios) with marine-derived proteins and fatty acids (all in coral tissue ratios)

 

[Dj City]

I don't want to be misunderstood.
I understand that Kz coral snow is not a coral food. I understand it's a water clarifier (flocculent).

My question was on how this can kill or starve verminteds when it would bind with the actual food therefore making it easier for them to get the food.

I think I understand the concept of it mucking up their nets.
I would think that they get more energy from the more concentrated food though.

Is my thinking wrong?