Newbie building a sump, help!

[dooner248]

I have a 210 that was used for cichlids until about a year ago when we switched to saltwater. Have been using two Fx canisters and it has been okay. My LFS provides monthly service and really wants me to switch to a sump. My last test by them showed very high phosphate and nitrates so I guess I need to looking into a sump. Would really appreciate some build instructions and product recommendations. I hope to use a 40 breeder that I have.

 

[PPBlimpy]

How often are the fx4's being cleaned? if only monthly that is the problem.
monthly water swaps? how big?

I have ran saltwater tanks on canisters and was just fine but you need to maintain them more often. even every two weeks may be to long for a canister but would be a start. the food and fish poop that gets caught in them starts to break down after only a couple days, beneficial bacteria does its job and converts it.

I would clean the fx6 on my 75G weekly, it fit 5G exactly so that is how much of a water change I did.

If you could pull one each weekend, rinse filters in the old water and get all the crap out, replace with freshly mixed salt water and put back. Then the next weekend do the second one. but still would suggest 10% water changes bi weekly on top of the water going into the canisters.

what are you using as a skimmer? i think that is the biggest benefit of a sump is being able to have a large skimmer.

sump needs to be as big as the equipment you plan to run to help with your nitrates and phosphates?
skimmer, refugium, algea scrubber, cryptic fuge, heaters, return pumps.

need more of a plan. i shoot for 30-40% of my DT volume as a sump. so if i had your tank i would be looking at a 65-85g sump, maybe a 60 breeder would work because it is shallow and give a good foot print.

but even with a sump and big skimmer you still should be changing sock filters every 3-4 days.

what maintenance do you do between their visits? just adding a sump is not going to fix anything if the maintenance aspect does not become more frequent. you will just spend a lot of money on pumps, plumbing and equipment and have the same outcome.

 

[galantra]

Well few questions:
Is the tank drilled or will it need to be drilled? Just wondering how you plan on plumbing a sump to your system.

Current take is just Fish only or is there coral?
Other than the FX what else is there for filtration? Skimmer?

 

[dooner248]

Well few questions:
Is the tank drilled or will it need to be drilled? Just wondering how you plan on plumbing a sump to your system.

Current take is just Fish only or is there coral?
Other than the FX what else is there for filtration? Skimmer?

No skimmer. Tank has fish and a few small corals, but corals don’t seem to be thriving. Tank is not drilled. Fx 4 and 6 are only filtration. They have been cleaned every other month which s looking way not frequent enough. Water change is 20% monthly and new tap water to make up for evaporation.

 

[Robusto]

I put a CPR overflow to drain to a sump on my 30 breeder. I chose one with a pump that will automatically restart if there's a power fail. They've gone under but you may be able to still find them and there are other brands. The key connecting to the sump was a flexible sink drain hose, after much T & E.

 

[UncommonSense]

No skimmer. Tank has fish and a few small corals, but corals don’t seem to be thriving. Tank is not drilled. Fx 4 and 6 are only filtration. They have been cleaned every other month which s looking way not frequent enough. Water change is 20% monthly and new tap water to make up for evaporation.

Is the tank acrylic or glass? This will dictate the overflow drilling process!

A 210g tank should have larger than a 40g sump, ideally!

You want to shoot for 25-33% of display volume for your sump; so a 60-75g sump would be a good fit!

Here are a few in that size range…

75g aquarium, converted into a 55-60g freshwater sump for my 180g display…

60g acrylic glass cages brand sump, 40g operating volume, for my 90g reef tank!

60g acrylic tank, converted into a 40g operating volume sump for my LFS’s 180g reef tank!

These are actually very simplistic sump designs…

if you want to throw money at the problem; the sky’s the limit! — for example, here's a full custom Bashea brand sump which appears to be over 300g max volume!

 

[galantra]

Yeah like uncommon said you will need a larger sump. If you added a hanging overflow( if you don’t want to drill) power goes off that’s gonna be a lot of water filling in the sump specially if you have it filled half way on a 210 gallon. Also good enough bed to just check out some used sumps sometimes you can get some great deal on equipment

So with high PO4 seems like you tank need a skimmer and decrease feeding( also why the corals are not thriving)

1. Think of how you plan on connecting the sump.

2. Concern with return flow( DC pumps are better since you can turn up and down flow without the need of a ball valve to slow down flow)

3. Once you got those two then it’s all about your need in the sump ( skimmer, reactors, new location for heater, and additional filter needs )

 

[dooner248]

How often are the fx4's being cleaned? if only monthly that is the problem.
monthly water swaps? how big?

I have ran saltwater tanks on canisters and was just fine but you need to maintain them more often. even every two weeks may be to long for a canister but would be a start. the food and fish poop that gets caught in them starts to break down after only a couple days, beneficial bacteria does its job and converts it.

I would clean the fx6 on my 75G weekly, it fit 5G exactly so that is how much of a water change I did.

If you could pull one each weekend, rinse filters in the old water and get all the crap out, replace with freshly mixed salt water and put back. Then the next weekend do the second one. but still would suggest 10% water changes bi weekly on top of the water going into the canisters.

what are you using as a skimmer? i think that is the biggest benefit of a sump is being able to have a large skimmer.

sump needs to be as big as the equipment you plan to run to help with your nitrates and phosphates?
skimmer, refugium, algea scrubber, cryptic fuge, heaters, return pumps.

need more of a plan. i shoot for 30-40% of my DT volume as a sump. so if i had your tank i would be looking at a 65-85g sump, maybe a 60 breeder would work because it is shallow and give a good foot print.

but even with a sump and big skimmer you still should be changing sock filters every 3-4 days.

what maintenance do you do between their visits? just adding a sump is not going to fix anything if the maintenance aspect does not become more frequent. you will just spend a lot of money on pumps, plumbing and equipment and have the same outcome.

Thanks, sounds like I really need to step up and do more between the LFS visits monthly, like a water change of around thirty gallons at two weeks. I will start cleaning one canister each weekend as you pointed out. I just ordered a phosphate tester. I could not find a protein skimmer to use as a HOB for the 210 DT.

 

[UncommonSense]

Thanks, sounds like I really need to step up and do more between the LFS visits monthly, like a water change of around thirty gallons at two weeks. I will start cleaning one canister each weekend as you pointed out. I just ordered a phosphate tester. I could not find a protein skimmer to use as a HOB for the 210 DT.

If you want a skimmer that functions like a hang-on for a tank that size; look into “external” (aka: EXT) protein skimmers!

 

[PPBlimpy]

Thanks, sounds like I really need to step up and do more between the LFS visits monthly, like a water change of around thirty gallons at two weeks. I will start cleaning one canister each weekend as you pointed out. I just ordered a phosphate tester. I could not find a protein skimmer to use as a HOB for the 210 DT.

What does the LFS do for maintenance when they come out? And ext skimmer like mentioned above is about the only way to ad a skimmer for that size tank. You can look into a. Large HOB Refugium. That can help export nitrates/phos also.

 

[Asm481]

You said tap water top offs. That is a source for all kinds of pollutants. You should get a rodi filter and make your own water or at least buy rodi water from your lfs.

 

[PPBlimpy]

You said tap water top offs. That is a source for all kinds of pollutants. You should get a rodi filter and make your own water or at least buy rodi water from your lfs.

good catch I didn't see this part of the comment

 

[dooner248]

good catch I didn't see this part of the comment

The water I add is always RO water, sorry I was not clearer.

 

[dooner248]

Well, my wife and I, for our first attempt, changed around 15 gallon of water and cleaned the fx4 this weekend. Physically, it was a lot for us, but we are hoping that with repetition it will get better. I am going to try 20 gallons next week when we do the fx6.

 

[dooner248]

What do you think about leaving the two canisters in place, but add just a refugium in the 40 gallon breeder and place a protein skimmer in there and not use a sump???

 

[PPBlimpy]

It is a pain at first. With practice it gets easier. There are things in the future you can do to make water changes easier, but I suggest you get a handle on doing them "the hard way". Keep it up and over the next couple weeks you will start seeing the tank turn around.

the fx6 holds 5G really conveniently. You can make a PVC tube shaped more or less like a candy cane that can hook over the rim of your tank with a ball valve to a tube to help pull water out, then attach a pump to the tub to pump back in.

also i suggest about an hour before doing your water change, take a turkey baster and blow off the rocks, all the muck and fish poop will go into the water column and into your filters before you clean them.

 

[PPBlimpy]

the problem with any tank that small under a large tank is if you loose power you need room for the water to over flow into the lower tank and not over fill the tank.

my 300G when pumps are turned off. has 18-20 gallon go into my sump. every tank will be different. that why the sump size needs to be bigger

I ran a tank a long time ago where I had a refugium above the display tank as a refugium. You could do the same thing but split it and put skimmer there. this is actually better on the creature that thrive in the fuge.

small pump from DT to above tank fuge, then that overflows back into your big tank

 

[PPBlimpy]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/above-tank-refugium.782940/
now it doesn't have to be completely above but maybe to the side and just a bit higher? macro algea display tanks are becoming a thing lately

just a suggestion. but could be a way to use the tank you have or something similar. do lots of research first