Newbie Desperate for advice...

[henryhahn]

Good Afternoon,
Having a saltwater aquarium has been an aspiration for many years. Recently, a friend gifted me a 50 gallon tank, and I decided to take the plunge. It has been less of a dream and more of a nightmare ever since.
First, I visited the local fish store to get expert advice. I made it clear that I was uninformed and that I would need a great deal of guidance on what to purchase. They vehemetly insisted I avoid the internet, but that was where their agreement stopped. The sales people bounced me between each other, contradicted one another, and seemed generally annoyed with any questions I had. After running up quite a bill, I had thought I was set, but I soon found out I was not.
Currently I am running:
Aquatop CF400UV 4-Stage Canister Filter with UV 9W
Marina Submersible Heater for Aquarium, 300-watt
Aqueon Fixture Optibright LED Light, 48-54"
Instant Ocean Sea Salt
When I got home, I priced these four items against amazon and found that the price difference was $130 less from amazon. I know there needs to be mark-up due to overhead at a LFS, but that was too substantial to overlook. I exchanged them for store credit knowing I will probably spend that on fish at some point, but this was not well-received.
I treated the tap water with a conditioner, mixed it with the salt to an appropriate salinity over 2 days, and religiously turned off the uv for four hours when I put the brightwell aquatics microbacter7 each day. I added something called fuel for the live rocks and the hope of someday having an anemone.
I then stopped by the local Petco and talked over some of the things that I initially spoke with the LFS for. The guy there was nice, but works limited hours and is the only saltwater person they have. He suggested I pick up a clown fish (my 3 boys really wanted it), a goby fire dart (which the lfs had also suggested to establish the tank), and a camel shrimp.
I went back to the lfs and picked up a test kit because I then realized there were a lot of things that I need to be testing.
The tank is about 3 weeks old. Here are my current levels:
PH: 7.8
Ammonia: 0.5
Nitrite: 1.0
Nitrate: 5.0
Here is where I need help. Recently, I took my troop (I am a scoutmaster) to summer camp. I added some more water (this time reverse osmosis water with conditioner) because of evaporation. When I left, I forgot to turn the uv back on after the bacteria treatment. When I returned (my wife fed fish while I was away) I have evidently developed a diatom bloom. Reading around, this is normal for a new tank that has not yet cycled. My numbers really have remained about the same throughout, and I have had very little variance. I am fearful that I am doing something wrong and preventing the tank from cycling
*Should I keep the uv light off? Is it preventing the cycle process?
*Should I do anything to prohibit this bloom?
*Do I do a water change next week like the lfs suggested, or do I have to wait for the tank to cycle before I do a water change?
*Anything else I should be aware of?

Thank you for your time with this extremely lengthy/newbish post!
Any other advice would be very welcome as well.

 

[143MPCo]

Lets get you some help... [HASHTAG]#ReefSquad[/HASHTAG]

 

[Ricardo Berrios]

I was going to say something but i bet them guys know hole lot more than i do all i want say is, do water a change. IMHO i dont wait, if i see something blooming its time for it. even if its not been a week. then look for why its it blooming, too much feeding, too much over stock and last but not least its a new tank and it will go under some algae blooms. ive read alot and it seams that algae its just part of the new tank progress. just dont let it grow out of control. good luck.

there was a moment i though of tanking it down. and i put a Sump In, and everything started to work much better. i dont know about the canister ive never used one but i know for my own experience that putting the sump in my tank really made an incredible difference in about 3 days i sarted to see the progress. and it has been looking great ever since.

mine is new too 8 months and counting no crashes or big losses. its a rimless with no top so i had 2 fish jumped out.

 

[jsker]

Welcome to R2R, were we are more than willing to help you through your new journey with sound advice

• Run everything like you going to run it in the future, you system will adjust accordingly
• let the bloom take is course
• yes do a water change to export the ammonia and nitrates, and let the tank cycle for at least 30 day. Once you ammonia spike is finished drop in the clean crew and start the life cycle and the clean crew will start eating the algae and also start on establishing a bio load. wait another 2 weeks and then that will be the safe point to add fish
• Look at getting a RO/DI filter and a good filter will be in the $200 range. This may seem high, but it pays for it self in the long run. Depending on the type of tank you are going to run IO is a good starter salt

 

[jaws789832]

Are fish in it right now?

 

[dbl]

First of all, welcome to R2R. You’ve come to the right place for help, regardless that we’re on the interweb and apparently your LFS doesn’t like that!

Addressing things step-by-step, there is nothing wrong with saving money buying on line. There are things you’ll need the LFS for, for startup costs are what they are, so save the money.

Using a canister in a saltwater setup is not ideal. It can be done, but you’ll have to be religious with keeping the thing clean – as in at least weekly at a minimum. In my opinion, no need for a UV while the tank cycles. Others opinions may vary. I will post a link below that you should read through thoroughly that walks you through the saltwater keeping hobby. But here are some highlights that come to mind…

Never use tap water in a saltwater aquarium. You should invest in a RO/DI system. In the meantime, get your water from your LFS – they should sell both fresh and pre-mixes salt. Just buy the fresh and make your own saltwater. Link below on a great little RO/DI system.

If I read you correctly, you now have a couple of fish in your tank. If that’s the case, I would recommend returning those if at all possible. Your tank is not fully cycled judging by what I read. That can take anywhere between two weeks and two months, and it’s not something you want to rush through. I know it’s exciting to get life in the tank, for both you and the kids. But nothing good happens quickly in this hobby, and taking things step by step will provide far greater results down the road.

Your goal is zero ammonia and nitrites. Once that happens and your nitrates start to elevate, you can do a water change. There really isn’t anything you can do to prevent the diatom bloom. It’s part of cycling a new tank and they should go away on their own in due time.

So that’s enough rambling from me. Here is the link to the thread and a link to the RO/DI unit I referred to above. Just remember, slow and steady wins the race and will get you back to your dream and out of the nightmare.

http://reef2reef.com/threads/the-supreme-guide-to-setting-up-a-saltwater-reef-aquarium.138750/

http://spectrapure.com/Aquarium-RO-...ement-Filter Kit-TDS Meters-Chlorine-Test-Kit

 

[Oldreefer44]

Also suggest that like with everything else, the Internet can work for and against you. Suggest this site and also WETWEBMEDIA as good sources. Number one factor for success = Patience.

 

[henryhahn]

Thank you all for the advice!

• Run everything like you going to run it in the future, you system will adjust accordingly

So, run the UV unless I am doing a bacteria treatment?

• let the bloom take is course

By this, do you mean not to change the water, or just don't disturb the bloom?

• yes do a water change to export the ammonia and nitrates, and let the tank cycle for at least 30 day. Once you ammonia spike is finished drop in the clean crew and start the life cycle and the clean crew will start eating the algae and also start on establishing a bio load. wait another 2 weeks and then that will be the safe point to add fish

So, change 25% of the water, and then just let that run for 30 days?

• Look at getting a RO/DI filter and a good filter will be in the $200 range. This may seem high, but it pays for it self in the long run. Depending on the type of tank you are going to run IO is a good starter salt

I do already have a ro/di filter that I bought many years ago when my town had water problems. The water I added due to evaporation was ro/di and any future water will also be ro/di

Are fish in it right now?

Using a canister in a saltwater setup is not ideal. It can be done, but you’ll have to be religious with keeping the thing clean – as in at least weekly at a minimum. In my opinion, no need for a UV while the tank cycles. Others opinions may vary. I will post a link below that you should read through thoroughly that walks you through the saltwater keeping hobby. But here are some highlights that come to mind…

Cool, so although not ideal I can do it? I will read the links as soon as I put the kids to bed tonight.

Never use tap water in a saltwater aquarium. You should invest in a RO/DI system. In the meantime, get your water from your LFS – they should sell both fresh and pre-mixes salt. Just buy the fresh and make your own saltwater. Link below on a great little RO/DI system.

I do have a ro/di system. Do I still use the conditioner on the water?

If I read you correctly, you now have a couple of fish in your tank. If that’s the case, I would recommend returning those if at all possible. Your tank is not fully cycled judging by what I read. That can take anywhere between two weeks and two months, and it’s not something you want to rush through. I know it’s exciting to get life in the tank, for both you and the kids. But nothing good happens quickly in this hobby, and taking things step by step will provide far greater results down the road.

Unfortunately, the lfs will not take them back

 

[henryhahn]

Are fish in it right now?

Yes, a clown fish, a goby firefish dart, and a camel shrimp.

 

[henryhahn]

Welcome to R2R, were we are more than willing to help you through your new journey with sound advice

• Once you ammonia spike is finished drop in the clean crew and start the life cycle and the clean crew will start eating the algae and also start on establishing a bio load. wait another 2 weeks and then that will be the safe point to add fish

By a clean crew, do you mean shrimp and starfish?
Am I able to do shrimp if I intend to do any anemones or leather coral?

 

[KJ]

By a clean crew, do you mean shrimp and starfish?

Hermit crab and snails.

 

[jaws789832]

Then yes you want to do a series of water changes. This is probably going to prolong your cycle, but since you have fish already you need to try and keep the ammonia and nitrite levels down as low as you can. judging by your numbers your cycle is somewhere in the middle so it shouldn't take too long. Ammonia and nitrite are extremely toxic to fish, so keeping them under .5 (preferably 0) is real important. I would do a water change (50%) then test ammonia and nitrite every day and when you see it creep up do another water change. Go real easy on the feeding. Look up threads here on how to setup a quarantine tank. It will be about the same theory of what you are trying to do. Don't add any more critters until the ammonia and nitrite consistently read 0. this is when your cycle will be complete. Then you will want to add a cuc (clean up crew).Different types of snails and whatnot to eat algae and other nasty stuff that will grow on your rocks sand and glass.

 

[nwayne567]

Alright well you came to the right place,l to get some help, basically it's ideal to get a some testing equipment to test for nitrate,nitrite, and ammonia.

Their are many different ways to cycle a tank.
The way your local fish store or "lfs" told you to cycle the tank is kind of messed up to fish, but you didn't know, how a lot of people do it is to just buy live sand or some live rock that has already been established in a tank. And then wait untill all your readings are fine. Or the even throw in a dead shrimp from the market to start the cycling process. Like I said many different ways to start the cycle. But what they should have said is after a few weeks when your tank is done cycling then it's safe to throw in the clean up crew as in snail and hermits, and slowly add fish.

Remember when your adding fish do it slowly so you don't shock your system as in get one every other week and so on.

This whole hobby is about patience!!!

Is to answer some other questions. Idono why they would tell you to get a canister filter, I wouldn't personally run one for salt water but that's just me.

I wouldn't have bought uv sterilizer, but some people like them and that's alright.

Any other questions you have just let me know.

And one more small bit, the Internet is your friend... they probably said don't listen to the Internet because they want you to spend more money and just to listen to them blindly. Everything you will ever want to know is on the internet so with questions and research you can find anything you want

 

[Sabellafella]

Good Afternoon,
Having a saltwater aquarium has been an aspiration for many years. Recently, a friend gifted me a 50 gallon tank, and I decided to take the plunge. It has been less of a dream and more of a nightmare ever since.
First, I visited the local fish store to get expert advice. I made it clear that I was uninformed and that I would need a great deal of guidance on what to purchase. They vehemetly insisted I avoid the internet, but that was where their agreement stopped. The sales people bounced me between each other, contradicted one another, and seemed generally annoyed with any questions I had. After running up quite a bill, I had thought I was set, but I soon found out I was not.
Currently I am running:
Aquatop CF400UV 4-Stage Canister Filter with UV 9W
Marina Submersible Heater for Aquarium, 300-watt
Aqueon Fixture Optibright LED Light, 48-54"
Instant Ocean Sea Salt
When I got home, I priced these four items against amazon and found that the price difference was $130 less from amazon. I know there needs to be mark-up due to overhead at a LFS, but that was too substantial to overlook. I exchanged them for store credit knowing I will probably spend that on fish at some point, but this was not well-received.
I treated the tap water with a conditioner, mixed it with the salt to an appropriate salinity over 2 days, and religiously turned off the uv for four hours when I put the brightwell aquatics microbacter7 each day. I added something called fuel for the live rocks and the hope of someday having an anemone.
I then stopped by the local Petco and talked over some of the things that I initially spoke with the LFS for. The guy there was nice, but works limited hours and is the only saltwater person they have. He suggested I pick up a clown fish (my 3 boys really wanted it), a goby fire dart (which the lfs had also suggested to establish the tank), and a camel shrimp.
I went back to the lfs and picked up a test kit because I then realized there were a lot of things that I need to be testing.
The tank is about 3 weeks old. Here are my current levels:
PH: 7.8
Ammonia: 0.5
Nitrite: 1.0
Nitrate: 5.0
Here is where I need help. Recently, I took my troop (I am a scoutmaster) to summer camp. I added some more water (this time reverse osmosis water with conditioner) because of evaporation. When I left, I forgot to turn the uv back on after the bacteria treatment. When I returned (my wife fed fish while I was away) I have evidently developed a diatom bloom. Reading around, this is normal for a new tank that has not yet cycled. My numbers really have remained about the same throughout, and I have had very little variance. I am fearful that I am doing something wrong and preventing the tank from cycling
*Should I keep the uv light off? Is it preventing the cycle process?
*Should I do anything to prohibit this bloom?
*Do I do a water change next week like the lfs suggested, or do I have to wait for the tank to cycle before I do a water change?
*Anything else I should be aware of?

Thank you for your time with this extremely lengthy/newbish post!
Any other advice would be very welcome as well.

Lol welcome, well youve done your research and will soon get a better understanding of everything that goes on with your reef. To be honest, the bacteria is already starting to take hold of all the surfaces inside your tank, so i really dont think it would matter if you ran uv or not. Just keep the same routine your doing now. Yes do waterchanges, your ammonia and nitrite will drop down withen a week or 2 and you should be good to go. Yes diatoms will go away, theyre eating whats left(if your using pure water) of all the residual silicate lingering in your water. Theres nothing more important then testing and having a consistent routine, r2r has loads of information for help =)

 

[jsker]

Thank you all for the advice!


So, run the UV unless I am doing a bacteria treatment?

By this, do you mean not to change the water, or just don't disturb the bloom?

So, change 25% of the water, and then just let that run for 30 days?

I do already have a ro/di filter that I bought many years ago when my town had water problems. The water I added due to evaporation was ro/di and any future water will also be ro/di




Cool, so although not ideal I can do it? I will read the links as soon as I put the kids to bed tonight.

I do have a ro/di system. Do I still use the conditioner on the water?

Unfortunately, the lfs will not take them back

Run the UV
Do water changes of 10% what you are doing is letting all of the Bactria and nutrients cancel each other out
Do a weekly water change

 

[jsker]

By a clean crew, do you mean shrimp and starfish?
Am I able to do shrimp if I intend to do any anemones or leather coral?

snails, hermit crabs, turbo snails are good to start with.

 

[adestafi]

Welcome! You've definitely come to the right place- and yes, the Internet is your friend. R2R is a great place to do research, this means on equipment as well as what fish to stock, where to buy and how to avoid a lot of failure at the expense of your wallet. It can be an overwhelming hobby but those fish are your pets and their interactions and personalities make it worthwhile

 

[melypr1985]

Unfortunately, the lfs will not take them back

Hi and welcome to R2R! We are glad you came to us! I'm going to be a little blunt, but I want to make sure I'm clear in my advice. Please dont take it the wrong way at all! We've all been here and had to learn these things.

The LFS may not let you return them for a refund, but they would probably give you a little back in store credit. The fish will possibly die in that tank with ammonia and nitrites present in the water. If they don't then the toxic ammonia and nitrite can actually adversely effect their internal organs to the point of a shorter life span. I'm so sorry they started you off with not the greatest info. :(

Having the fish in there means you have to do water changes to dilute the amount of ammonia and nitrite. Each water change will set your cycle back and make it much slower. That's another good reason not to cycle with fish.

Let the diatoms run their course, they will go away in time and with the addition of hermits and snails.

You dont need conditioner with RO/DI water. It's perfectly pure water and very safe all by itself (assuming the filters are changed regularly).

Keep the questions coming! We love to answer questions around here :D

 

[tj w]

Excellent Mel, as always great advice. Sometimes it's a pain to sort out all the info you are getting especially when first starting. Your best bet is to read and research as much info as you can and take it one step at a time. It can be overwhelming, but remember we have all been there. R2R is a great resource, we are here to help. If you [HASHTAG]#ReefSquad[/HASHTAG]#they will do everything they can to help. They have helped countless people here and are a valuable resource. Hobbies are meant to be enjoyed. We are glad to have you and look forward to seeing your tank mature.

 

[cameronh]

Welcome to reef2reef! Your in the right place for the RIGHT answers on what you actually need and don't need. Sounds like everybody had good responses as I read through every post. I'll subscribe and keep an eye out. Good luck my friend! And again, welcome to R2R!