Nitrates are BAD...no no no they are GOOD!! Wait, What?!?!

[pickupman66]

My tank is very low maintenance. I test monthly (hopefully). I strive for under 20PPM nitrate but I do not want zero. If I am low, it is more food so I have more fish poop resulting in more coral food. Nitrates and phosphates are consumed by our corals thus we need to have some to offer. However too much is a bad thing.

 

[shollis2814]

When my nitrates drop to zero, that is usually because of an algae outbreak that sucks it up as fast as it's produced. I like to shoot for 5-15 because I have zoas. I also have a few SPS. I'm still learning what works best for my system.

 

[kswan]

I tend to have 0 nitrate and measurable phosphate. I'm currently trying to get my nitrate up because the last time I got it above zero my green hair algae went away. Green algae is back so let's see if it works again.

 

[dantimdad]

When my nitrates drop to zero, that is usually because of an algae outbreak that sucks it up as fast as it's produced. I like to shoot for 5-15 because I have zoas. I also have a few SPS. I'm still learning what works best for my system.

This right here!

He is learning what works best for HIS system!

This is what everyone should do.

 

[JDowns]

I honestly never measure nitrate after the initial cycle. Never had a reason to.

If I see more algae on the glass, I either reduce feeding or up my skimming. If I see corals losing color and I think it's not enough nutrients, feeding goes up and the skimmer cup comes off a few hours a day.

To me, it's all about how your tank looks, not numbers. But, then again, I am old school and apparently the younger crowd knows better than I.

I would agree with this. Only reason I measure Nitrate once a week is to learn based on coral reaction since I'm new to the hobby. If my N gets low the first place I see it is in the Goni's, Trachy's, Lobo's, Scoly's, and bounce shrooms. If N gets too low then they start to get deflated, if N is too high then I start to get green on the glass and brown sand. Those guys are puffy and happy at that point, but just a bit lower not to get green on the glass and they are still happy.

For acro's , too much N and things start to green up. Increasing light or decreasing N and colors come back.

I'm typically concerned more with P at this point. I've run into more problems bottoming out Phosphates than anything else in this hobby. Plenty of dead sticks due to that, which is why I'm comfortable with P anywhere above 0.05, and GFO is not allowed anywhere near my tanks. Second to that is dropping in to large a chuck of Rods food at one time. The huge influx of organics is a sure bet for red slime in my tank.

 

[vlangel]

Where one chooses to keep their nitrates probably should be determined by what they keep.

My tank is a mixed reef with macro algaes. My first love is the fish, so I like to have as many as my aquarium can safely keep. I believe I have 12 blennies, gobies and cardinal fish in a 56 gallon column. Also atm my tank is skimmerless. I depend on macro algaes and WCs for export. If my nitrates get too low my ornamental algaes will suffer, too high and the inverts will die. Currently they are 25ppm and I would prefer them to be at 20ppm. I only have a couple sps but would like to try a green slimer and a pink bird's nest and am hoping they will be ok with nitrates in the 20-25ppm range.

Another factor is I have a sandbed, part of the tank is a shallow sandbed and part is a deep sandbed. It is both function and aesthetics. The DSB allows for denitrification to help lower nitrates. Since I like well fed fish that is helpful, but I primarily built a tiered reef because it appeals to me and looks very natural.

Macro algaes and seagrasses do best when the ratio of Carbon, Nitrogen, and Phosphorus is about 550-30-1. (I learned this in the macro algae/seagrass topic on RC.). Even though carbon is the most important and can easily be added by dosing CO2 with a tank and regulator, I haven't tried that yet. However I am attempting to stay in the 30-1 ratio of N and P. I don't want to strip the phosphates out completely with a gfo or cyanobacteria may take advantage of the lack of phosphates. So I allow them to exist in a controlled manner but the means my nitrates need to be at least 20ppm to be close to the ideal ratio. So there you have it, the reason I let my nitrates run in the 20-25ppm range. O and btw, my tank is not over run with nuisance algae so this works for me.

 

[Epic Aquaculture]

One of the advantages of being an "old school" reefer, is that prior to ICP testing, and Hanna Checkers, etc. you had to learn the nuances of your tank visually. I find it best to look at my tank regularly to see if everything "looks right". If something seems off, I will investigate, but I try to avoid chasing numbers as much as possible. That's not to say that I don't test regularly. I absolutely do because the numbers do have value, and can help you head off a problem too, but the truth is that if your tank finds it's groove at 0 PPM Nitrate on a home test kit, then role with it. If it rocks out at 50 PPM nitrate, then stick with that. It's rare that anyone really gets to 0 nitrate, and obviously if you do you will have problems, but like I said it's more important to find your tanks happy place than to try and hit a number weather your tank responds well or not.

 

[ca1ore]

If your tank looks good and you don't have a pest algae problem then whatever level you have is fine. I personally try to keep nitrates under 20 and phosphates under 0.05.

 

[dantimdad]

If your tank looks good and you don't have a pest algae problem then whatever level you have is fine. I personally try to keep nitrates under 20 and phosphates under 0.05.

And you have a huge population of fish. Would you say your N and P are stable at this point?

 

[shred5]

So I'll keep this short because I want you to drive this conversation and I have a lot to earn myself. I once took a class at the "Old School of Reefing" that said the correct answer is that all and any Nitrates are bad. But now the "NEW School of Reefing" and especially sps keeping says some is good. How much and why is what i would like to discuss. So my question is the following:

Do you believe Nitrates are actually a good thing and if so how much and why?

Image via @Ryan Rioux

And I have been around along time and not too many people said zero because it used to be hard to get to other than latter on when the bacteria/carbon system started like zeovit came into play.
Slightly higher nitrates have never been a issue. Phosphate is the one that needed to be lower.

It all depends on how you keep a reef though. Zero can still be good for those that want to have full control over their reef and add the nutrients and food levels they want to add.

Problem is so many took stuff to the extreme and stop feeding their corals trying to get to zero. Zero is not bad if your corals are getting food and they get their nutrients from food.
Corals can get nitrogen source from the food you feed or bacteria if they feed on that. Every living thing needs nitrogen to survive. We started starving our corals. If you want zero you need to add stuff back in. One reason things like amino acids became popular.
The problem is very few know how to keep a tank at zero and the problem is so many people got confused on methodology.
Mainly because there are so many on the forums that read something and parrot what they read without really understanding the methodology or what it applies to.

Basically I do not think it has changed people just do not understand all the different methodologies on how to keep a reef. Sometimes people start combining different methods without understanding them.
I think somewhere along the line we forgot our corals do better with food. On a reef nutrients are in short supply but food is not. My corals are getting lite in color so time to add some nitrogen or better yet feed your coral.

I think the other reason we hear zero is so many are trying to starve off algae.
Nothing wrong with a little algae and it is natural in a reef but people panic over a little algae.

There is more than one way to keep a reef.

 

[Paullawr]

So I'll keep this short because I want you to drive this conversation and I have a lot to earn myself. I once took a class at the "Old School of Reefing" that said the correct answer is that all and any Nitrates are bad. But now the "NEW School of Reefing" and especially sps keeping says some is good. How much and why is what i would like to discuss. So my question is the following:

Do you believe Nitrates are actually a good thing and if so how much and why?

Image via @Ryan Rioux

Like my doctor tells me, everything is goos in moderation.

 

[tmcca]

Some corals need phosphates and nitrates to live; they consume it. That is why you should add soft corals first before fish to absorb excessive nutrients after cycle. If you over skim; too much gfo; chaeto not good and have no nutrients your corals will suffer. I keep my tank 5ppm-10ppm Nitrates; Po4 0.2-0.5

My tank used to have 0ppm Nitrates and lower than 0.2 of Po4 and my corals didn't look great. Now they look better since I took my chaeto out and took my Gfo off just saying. Now if your po4 is above 0.5 than I would look into running something to lower it or if your Nitrates over 10ppm

So your targets should be:
Nitrates 2ppm-10ppm
Po4 0.2-0.5
Calcium 400-450
Alk 8-12dkh

If you run Chaeto or GFO to lower your Nitrates/Phosphates always test...
If your Phosphates lower than 0.5 running gfo may do more harm than good

When you tank is new you're going to have high nutrients Nitrates/Phosphates after a year these things come more into balance. Reason? corals absorb these nutrients out of the water.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

So I'll keep this short because I want you to drive this conversation and I have a lot to earn myself. I once took a class at the "Old School of Reefing" that said the correct answer is that all and any Nitrates are bad. But now the "NEW School of Reefing" and especially sps keeping says some is good. How much and why is what i would like to discuss. So my question is the following:

Do you believe Nitrates are actually a good thing and if so how much and why?

Image via @Ryan Rioux

When looking for info on dendronephthya corals. Came across papers showing water perimeters in areas these corals live and nitrates were 20+ ppm. This is in the ocean. So nitrates upto 25 ppm for some corals is good. I'm at 7.5-10ppm

 

[ca1ore]

And you have a huge population of fish. Would you say your N and P are stable at this point?

Yes, but probably a tad too high. Nitrates OK at 20 but phosphates too high at 0.19. Am working on getting them down - brought a bigger ATS on line and working on a larger skimmer.

 

[Brew12]

Nitrate readings are neither good nor bad, high or low. They are part of a nutrient balance game. If you have low nitrates because it is fueling problematic algae then that is bad. If you have high nitrates but your coral are healthy and colorful then everything is good. If you have low nitrates because you don't add enough nutrition to your tank, that is bad. If you have high nitrate because of decaying waste in your tank that isn't being consumed, that is bad.
Ideally, we will be importing and exporting nutrients at the same rate. What we read in the water is the lag between them being produced and consumed. Since everyone has different factors that impact the import and export, a reading that works in one system may crash another system.

 

[dantimdad]

I found this response to someone having an algae issue just two years ago


"Hair algae is best battled via water chemistry (which overall is pretty peaceful). However, even under good water chemistry, hair algae can be a bugger once is gets its foot in the door, or in the water. Have you checked both your nitrates and phosphates. Hair algae uses both as fertilizer. Nitrates should remain 5 ppm or less at all times and phosphate should be undetectable. My guess is that you're running some level of phosphate, as hair algae is an indicator of phosphate presence. If you're not already, I would suggest running a GFO (granular ferric oxide) reactor on the tank. There's a host of GFO available on the market and they all perform about the same. I personally use Bulk Reef Supplies' store mix as it's economical and sold in big batches. If you find that phosphates are present, I would combine GFO use with Brightwell Aquatics Phosphate-E liquid. There are a lot of liquid phosphate removers out there, but I've found this product is highly effective. You add it to a protein skimmer intake and it does cause some cloudiness. Also, be prepared for increased skim-mate."

So just a couple years ago folks were still at an all out war against N and P.



My how quickly things change.

 

[Jason mack]

I'm going shock you, so hold on to your test tubes!

180 gallons total water volume, 125 gallon DT.

I'm running, successfully I should say, N03 at 30ppm to 50ppm. WHAT? Can't be right, right? No, it's correct!

Yes, for nearly a year. I have unsuccessfully tried carbon dosing, HUGE water changes, bio pellets.....etc with no avail. ( Yes, all done absolutely correctly, to be honest, little reductions where had, but none reducing to 5-10)

With that said, I do and have ran a refugium with chaetomorpha for months successfully, pulling a gallon or so out a month. Nice green and healthy.

I do run my DKH high at 10.5 and calcium around 500. Mag around 1400. Kalkwasser in my ATO reservoir top off. Tons of flow and PAR at 300 at the tops off my aquascape.

The other value that will "SHOCK" you is P04. It's at 0.12! WHAT? it's correct!

No pest algaes, DT is free and clear of them.

All my SPS are growing, healthy and colorful. LPS is nuts in growth and color. I have to frag soon!

Water changes are 10 gallons a week with regular Instant Ocean. No dosing anything except alkalinity once in a blue moon and kalkwasser.

Skimmer and occasionally a filter sock.

So, yes you can have a healthy, thriving, colorful reef with insanely high nutrients, but it needs export and needs to be done in a mature reef (12+ months old) over time.

I'm in the same boat as you ...no3 50..p04 0.08-0.12...has been for more than 6 months , like you ive tried everything to no avail ..

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

Personally, I think 0 ppm NO3 can cause negative effects on our corals. I try to keep mine <2 ppm in order to limit algae growth but have some present for nutrient uptake for the corals.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Probably worth mention my phosphate level :whistling [emoji10]

In all honesty the phosphate relationship with algae could well be a fantasy in a mature thank.

 

[RussiReef]

I find a sweet spot between 5-10 ppm of nitrates for my SPS dominant tank