Nitrates Dilemma !

[Afkomjorgen]

I have several questions about some nitrate issues in my tank.

48 gallon tank, 14 gallon sump
Reef w/ softies & anemones
2 clownfish (2-3”), YWG, BI-color Blenny, Orchid Dottyback, cleaner shrimp
CUC: 10 or so hermits, a heap of micro brittle stars, 2 scutus/elephant snails, 10+ vibex narcissis, a handful each of Cerinths, Nerite and Astrea snails. Plus our very trusty Turbo.


salinity 1.028 ppm ( working this down, but it always leans a little high )
PH 8.2. Nitrite 0. Amm 0 Cal 400-450
Nitrate - 80-140 in the red
KH - 138ppm ( I think? )
Test kit : API

High nitrates over the last 3-4 months. Water changes make a small difference but it returns back to the high red within a week or two.

Confusingly everything looks splendid in the tank. Only noticeable change is some skeleton showing on the oldest Frogspawn but still has full extension. We might have lost some invertebrates but it’s difficult to say. Other note: one of the hammers has been putting out long polyps ( not stingers )

All the corals are growing and the anemones have doubled in size. Fish appear healthy.


potential causes?

-Skimmer stopped working for several weeks. Got it working again about 2 months ago but it hasn’t been working quite the same.
- We’ve been using tap water ( I know ) for our tank for the last 3 years. Our LFS uses local tap and has no issues. Per local salt water install/maintenance person the tap water in my neighborhood has more nitrate issues around this time of the year. Our water comes from reservoirs that over the summer empty and become more sediment-y (?). When I test the tap it has 5-10 nitrates.

- we were feeding daily or every other day. Usually 1 block of spirulina brine shrimp or coral gumbo, occasionally both but 1/2 blocks. We’ve reduced to 3x a week.

-Tank additions : we added the yellow watchman goby, blenny and dottyback all around Feb 2022. We added the Rainbow bubble tip Jan 2022. Sebae anemone added May 2022.
-Fragging. We fragged our Kenya tree about a month ago. In retrospect we should have waited for water conditions to be better. The frags completely melted overnight adding to the nitrate issue.
-Within the last 2 weeks we now have some algae issues that have developed. We almost never have had algae blooms or issues in the tank before. Green hairy algae on the rocks that the CUC doesn’t appear to be cleaning.
-we tried to add chaeto to the refugium but it’s all melted so I’m not sure what’s wrong there. 12 hours plant light on pink. Added 24 hour white light but now there’s improper algae growth too… Gracilaria and calupera in the DT and Refugium is doing grand.

In the last couple of months we’ve done 6 or so 15 gal water changes. Changed feeding schedule & started being better about turning off flow for feeding. Started using RODI water from LFS for top offs and water changes. Added 3 cups of chaeto to refugium.

I would really appreciate some opinions and ideas on what steps to take next.

Would it be beneficial to strain out additional liquid and nitrates from their frozen food before feeding?

• I was recommended a rv filter to clean up our tap water. Has anyone had any experience with this?
  
  
• Would it be beneficial to strain out additional liquid and nitrates from their frozen food before feeding?
  
  
• I may just need help with refugium/sump/skimmer in general. Not sure why it’s not picking up as many proteins (foam) and why the water doesn’t spin as much anymore in the chamber. Why is all the chaeto dying? I think I’m using too much light/wrong light?
  
  
• I may just need help with refugium/sump/skimmer in general. Not sure why it’s not picking up as many proteins (foam) and why the water doesn’t spin as much anymore in the chamber. Why is all the chaeto dying? I think I’m using too much light/wrong light
  
  
• Rodi water - I know you’re gonna bring it up so please let me know if this is an avenue I need to take but it’s not really in my budget at this time.
  
  
• Test kit - type/expired?

thank you

Dead head on Frogspawn is about 2 years old

 

[Miami Reef]

When I test the tap it has 5-10 nitrates.

Do you test pure tap water with a saltwater nitrate test kit? If so, that may be the reason why you are having that “false negative” reading. Try mixing the tap water in saltwater and trying to test again.

I do think the issue is the tap.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I agree the issue is the tap water, no need to starve the fish.

You have a very nice tank, rodi unit is not that expensive (especially if you started buying water from the LFS recently)

 

[sixty_reefer]

What phosphates do you ha have?

 

[Uncle99]

Phosphate is added to most up to date city water systems.
If your on city, you have phosphates in that water.
Phosphate is used by Cities to mitigate corrosion to delivery pipes.

 

[Afkomjorgen]

Do you test pure tap water with a saltwater nitrate test kit? If so, that may be the reason why you are having that “false negative” reading. Try mixing the tap water in saltwater and trying to test again.

I do think the issue is the tap.

I did test water straight from the tap. I suppose I’ll try it with salt next.

I agree the issue is the tap water, no need to starve the fish.

You have a very nice tank, rodi unit is not that expensive (especially if you started buying water from the LFS recently)

What phosphates do you ha have?

Phosphate is added to most up to date city water systems.
If your on city, you have phosphates in that water.
Phosphate is used by Cities to mitigate corrosion to delivery pipes.

I am on city water. I don’t have a phosphate test.

I will take a look again at rodi unit costs. I’ve got a rectangle stock tank in my garage that I mix the salt water in. Maybe I can set it up in that.

 

[Uncle99]

Just by the look of your green algae, (looks healthy) I’d guess your phosphate is way high, however, it may be able to mop up much of that organic, so test inaccurately shows, very low or zero.

City tap water everywhere in North America will always lead, down the road with chemistry issues as the cities treatment is for human consumption and contains quite a few things that reefs ain’t going to like. At first, it’s great, what a savings, but over time, those Trace things your not taking out build up and cause all sorts of problems for mainly corals and inverts.

RODI….best money ever spent…IMM.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I did test water straight from the tap. I suppose I’ll try it with salt next.







I am on city water. I don’t have a phosphate test.

I will take a look again at rodi unit costs. I’ve got a rectangle stock tank in my garage that I mix the salt water in. Maybe I can set it up in that.

I used to buy those giant water bottles of distilled water (the kind that go into a home water dispenser), I did it that way for a full year. If rodi a problem, then distilled is a much better option than tap.

phosphates is one of the most important parameters for the coral health, and also the main fuel for algae, you should definately invest in a phosphate test kit, not API, and start learning to control phospahates

 

[Dan_P]

I have several questions about some nitrate issues in my tank.

48 gallon tank, 14 gallon sump
Reef w/ softies & anemones
2 clownfish (2-3”), YWG, BI-color Blenny, Orchid Dottyback, cleaner shrimp
CUC: 10 or so hermits, a heap of micro brittle stars, 2 scutus/elephant snails, 10+ vibex narcissis, a handful each of Cerinths, Nerite and Astrea snails. Plus our very trusty Turbo.


salinity 1.028 ppm ( working this down, but it always leans a little high )
PH 8.2. Nitrite 0. Amm 0 Cal 400-450
Nitrate - 80-140 in the red
KH - 138ppm ( I think? )
Test kit : API

High nitrates over the last 3-4 months. Water changes make a small difference but it returns back to the high red within a week or two.

Confusingly everything looks splendid in the tank. Only noticeable change is some skeleton showing on the oldest Frogspawn but still has full extension. We might have lost some invertebrates but it’s difficult to say. Other note: one of the hammers has been putting out long polyps ( not stingers )

All the corals are growing and the anemones have doubled in size. Fish appear healthy.


potential causes?

-Skimmer stopped working for several weeks. Got it working again about 2 months ago but it hasn’t been working quite the same.
- We’ve been using tap water ( I know ) for our tank for the last 3 years. Our LFS uses local tap and has no issues. Per local salt water install/maintenance person the tap water in my neighborhood has more nitrate issues around this time of the year. Our water comes from reservoirs that over the summer empty and become more sediment-y (?). When I test the tap it has 5-10 nitrates.

- we were feeding daily or every other day. Usually 1 block of spirulina brine shrimp or coral gumbo, occasionally both but 1/2 blocks. We’ve reduced to 3x a week.

-Tank additions : we added the yellow watchman goby, blenny and dottyback all around Feb 2022. We added the Rainbow bubble tip Jan 2022. Sebae anemone added May 2022.
-Fragging. We fragged our Kenya tree about a month ago. In retrospect we should have waited for water conditions to be better. The frags completely melted overnight adding to the nitrate issue.
-Within the last 2 weeks we now have some algae issues that have developed. We almost never have had algae blooms or issues in the tank before. Green hairy algae on the rocks that the CUC doesn’t appear to be cleaning.
-we tried to add chaeto to the refugium but it’s all melted so I’m not sure what’s wrong there. 12 hours plant light on pink. Added 24 hour white light but now there’s improper algae growth too… Gracilaria and calupera in the DT and Refugium is doing grand.

In the last couple of months we’ve done 6 or so 15 gal water changes. Changed feeding schedule & started being better about turning off flow for feeding. Started using RODI water from LFS for top offs and water changes. Added 3 cups of chaeto to refugium.

I would really appreciate some opinions and ideas on what steps to take next.

Would it be beneficial to strain out additional liquid and nitrates from their frozen food before feeding?

• I was recommended a rv filter to clean up our tap water. Has anyone had any experience with this?
  
  
• Would it be beneficial to strain out additional liquid and nitrates from their frozen food before feeding?
  
  
• I may just need help with refugium/sump/skimmer in general. Not sure why it’s not picking up as many proteins (foam) and why the water doesn’t spin as much anymore in the chamber. Why is all the chaeto dying? I think I’m using too much light/wrong light?
  
  
• I may just need help with refugium/sump/skimmer in general. Not sure why it’s not picking up as many proteins (foam) and why the water doesn’t spin as much anymore in the chamber. Why is all the chaeto dying? I think I’m using too much light/wrong light
  
  
• Rodi water - I know you’re gonna bring it up so please let me know if this is an avenue I need to take but it’s not really in my budget at this time.
  
  
• Test kit - type/expired?

thank you

Dead head on Frogspawn is about 2 years old

Did you test for the presence of nitrite? It interferes with the nitrate test.

 

[DE FISH]

The issue is coming from using tap water also some lfs rodi is terrible one place I asked for a sample to test and the tds was higher than my tap water best to make your own rodi water

 

[Afkomjorgen]

Just by the look of your green algae, (looks healthy) I’d guess your phosphate is way high, however, it may be able to mop up much of that organic, so test inaccurately shows, very low or zero.

City tap water everywhere in North America will always lead, down the road with chemistry issues as the cities treatment is for human consumption and contains quite a few things that reefs ain’t going to like. At first, it’s great, what a savings, but over time, those Trace things your not taking out build up and cause all sorts of problems for mainly corals and inverts.

RODI….best money ever spent…IMM.

Will you further explain your first sentence? Do you mean inorganic phosphate vs organic phosphate? Does the test only show one? ( phos test )

phosphates is one of the most important parameters for the coral health, and also the main fuel for algae, you should definately invest in a phosphate test kit, not API, and start learning to control phospahates

Best test brand in your opinion?

Did you test for the presence of nitrite? It interferes with the nitrate test.

when I tested for nitrite it was either very low or 0

The issue is coming from using tap water also some lfs rodi is terrible one place I asked for a sample to test and the tds was higher than my tap water best to make your own rodi water

Thank you, I don’t have anything to test TDS but that is unsettling!

I appreciate everyone’s advice. I am doing research on the side and learning more about phosphates.

Im going to take a look at setting up a Rodi system, I think, since that seems to be the general consensus of the issue. In the mean time I’ll either use the LFS rodi or distilled to prevent any potential further build up ( from my own tap water anyways ).

Lastly I am still suspicious of why the skimmer is still not working 100%, if anyone has any further advice to offer.

I see is that the airline does not appear to control the skimmer anymore. I replaced the airline and cleaned the whole set up and it still doesn’t seem to affect air flow/turbulence in the chamber. Could this be an issue with the skimmer or an issue with water level?
It’s the kind that sits inside the sump over one of the glass baffles.

 

[DE FISH]

Will you further explain your first sentence? Do you mean inorganic phosphate vs organic phosphate? Does the test only show one? ( phos test )

Best test brand in your opinion?


when I tested for nitrite it was either very low or 0


Thank you, I don’t have anything to test TDS but that is unsettling!

I appreciate everyone’s advice. I am doing research on the side and learning more about phosphates.

Im going to take a look at setting up a Rodi system, I think, since that seems to be the general consensus of the issue. In the mean time I’ll either use the LFS rodi or distilled to prevent any potential further build up ( from my own tap water anyways ).

Lastly I am still suspicious of why the skimmer is still not working 100%, if anyone has any further advice to offer.

I see is that the airline does not appear to control the skimmer anymore. I replaced the airline and cleaned the whole set up and it still doesn’t seem to affect air flow/turbulence in the chamber. Could this be an issue with the skimmer or an issue with water level?
It’s the kind that sits inside the sump over one of the glass baffles.

You can get a tds meter really cheap under £10 you will need one to monitor the tds of your rodi water when you got your unit set up.

what brand and model is your skimmer ?

 

[Afkomjorgen]

Aquatop Xyclone Protein Skimmer with Pump
It came with my tank, Aquatop Recife 48 gal

AQUATOP Xyclone Protein Skimmer, PS-370

Check out the deal on AQUATOP Xyclone Protein Skimmer, PS-370 at Aquatop

www.aquatop.com

 

[DE FISH]

Aquatop Xyclone Protein Skimmer with Pump
It came with my tank, Aquatop Recife 48 gal

AQUATOP Xyclone Protein Skimmer, PS-370

Check out the deal on AQUATOP Xyclone Protein Skimmer, PS-370 at Aquatop

www.aquatop.com

I’ve never had experience with that skimmer or similar maybe someone can chime in or perhaps make a separate thread for the skimmer issue

 

[Uncle99]

Will you further explain your first sentence? Do you mean inorganic phosphate vs organic phosphate? Does the test only show one? ( phos test )

Best test brand in your opinion?

Sure.
The macro algae in your pic is very healthy, meaning, it for sure is taking in phosphate from your water. Without a source of phosphate, you deprive algae from one of its main food sources, and it will go kinda beige translucent and die.

Corals are very sensitive (among other things) to both the amount and flux of phosphate. Too little, you get things like Dino’s and cyanos. Too much and corals can brown, dull, not fully expand and growth is slowed. It can also invite a receding of the flesh in some.

The only test for phosphate I use is the Hanna UL Phosphorus Checker in PPB. This test has worked very very well for me. My system runs 23ppb, or 0.07ppm. The target area is 0.03-.1ppm unless the tank is very mature then, wow, I’ve seen stunning tanks at .3ppm.

I’ve tried many other test, but I have difficulty reading phosphate as so little of it in the water.

So you need to monitor that parameter carefully.

Keep in mind if you do need to lower phosphate, your in DT macro algae not going to be as happy.