NOAA Proposal info and clarification!!!

[RalphsReef]

I just left my two cents worth, as follows:

"I respectfully request that this action to list certain corals as threatened or endangered be abandoned. The reef aquarium hobby consists of many dedicated people from around the world. Most of them have the best intentions for the wild reefs found around the globe. Most will only purchase corals that have been aquacultured, rather than a buying piece that has been taken from the wild. Furthermore, the outlawing of any coral that might already be in propagation within captivity indirectly furthers any pre-existing damage to the wild reefs. I would wager that there is enough coral being grown in captivity that a depleted wild coral reef could be repopulated with relative ease. Taking corals away from people will not save the reefs, it will finish them off. Another thought to ponder is the effects this will have on those whose livelihoods are based upon the hobby. The impact would be widespread, and definitely will not do anything positive for our already ailing economy."

 

[mpedersen]

Additional commentary from Dustin Dorton, as posted on the CORAL Magazine Facebook Page, regarding the issue of "threatened" corals and the downplaying of this issue"

"1. Aquarists shouldn’t get their hopes up that Threatened status will not have an impact on aquacultured corals. NOAA would have to publish a 4d rule to allow the trade in aquacultured corals if they determined it was in the interest of the continued survival of the species. NOAA also has the option to use a 4d rule to enhance the protections offered under the ESA. They did this with A. palmata and A. cerivcornis when they were listed as Threatened, essentially offering them all of the protections of an Endangered species. We have received conflicting information from NOAA about the 4d rule process. Initially we were told that each species must be evaluated independently after the final decision was made to list. We were subsequently told that NOAA had the authority to issue a blanket 4d rule for all of the corals in the listing. The timeline for the 4d rule is also unclear.

2. A number of people have argued that the listing is crazy or somehow unenforceable because of the difficulty in identifying corals. This is a very dangerous point and NOAA has a solution for it. When it was brought up during a meeting with NOAA we were told they had the authority to list any species as threatened or endangered if they are similar in appearance to an ESA listed species. This can be done to avoid confusion and protect the species of concern. Worst case scenario here is that these 66 corals get listed and ALL similar looking corals (we could be talking about ALL species of Acropora, Montipora, Anacropora, Euphyllia, Pocillopora, Seriatopora, Acanthastrea, Porites, Pavona, Caulastrea and many others) get listed along with them."

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

Thank you mpedersen for adding that nail to the coffin of those who would downplay this policy as "not a big deal, don't freak out". That is precisely what I forsee happening should this take effect.

 

[steveb]

Looks like we have our answers now....

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/permits/corals.htm

What about nurseries, grow-out facilities, aquariums, zoos, and corals in captivity?

Maintenance and asexual propagation of endangered corals in a nursery would not require a permit. Additional activities such as experiments, transfer, or outplanting of captive animals will require a permit. Import or export may be authorized under a permit only for research or enhancement purposes.

ESA permits cannot be issued to import, export, or take listed species for the purpose of public display. Public display may occur if it is incidental to a permitted scientific research or enhancement activity or if the specimens were legally held in captivity at the time of listing. Selling, receiving, transporting, or shipping listed species in interstate or foreign commerce is prohibited, even if the specimens were legally held in captivity at the time of listing. For corals currently being maintained, demonstrating that the animals were in captivity before the final listing decision is your responsibility. Please contact us at 301-427-8401 for information on this process.

 

[Dsdaley77]

Looks like we have our answers now....

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/pr/permits/corals.htm

How on earth do you figure???? In bold red letters right above what you quoted it reads this......

"Note: The following information applies only to coral species proposed for listing as ENDANGERED."

Not to mention the fact that on the same page it states the final rule and regulations relating to the new classifications won't be released til after Nov. 30th.

Please explain what you meant.

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[steveb]

ummm yeah I can read....

Yes it pertains to "endangered"

In particular
Pacific

Acropora lokani
Euphyllia paradivisa

So what are we supposed to do if we have them and gee would like to frag a branch off or head off of a large colony that was in our care prior to the ban?

 

[Dsdaley77]

ummm yeah I can read....

Yes it pertains to "endangered"

In particular
Pacific

Acropora lokani
Euphyllia paradivisa

So what are we supposed to do if we have them and gee would like to frag a branch off or head off of a large colony that was in our care prior to the ban?

It would seem to me that once the ruling takes effect and you own the specimen prior to said ruling you must not alter the coral unless it's health is in immediate jeopardy.
Then we get a grey area. (From what I can tell) can you sell it, no. Nothing that can be considered "commerce". You could possibly give it away/donate it and this would be a long shot as you would just have to prove that you were doing what was best for the coral in question.

If I leave the coral it could die (tank crash, equipt. malfunction, coral warfare, etc.). So the best option was to "__________" fill in the blank

Look fact is it does put some specimens we like on the super no no list but it's not like the sky is falling. Don't rush to judgements until they (NOAA) release additional info.....

"At this time, a Section 10(a)(1)(A) permit would not be required for research or enhancement activities on threatened species upon listing. After the final listing, NOAA Fisheries will determine whether any ESA take prohibitions would be extended to threatened coral species through a separate rulemaking process. Please be aware that you may need other permits from federal, state, or local agencies for these species.




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[mainereefer]

I live in maine the biggest reason I went saltwater from fresh was because of our laws. we have a list of fw fish we CAN have! heck owning a coi fish in maine can cost you $10,000 and 3 years in jail!
I see the same thing happening with saltwater!
you can apply for a permit but because the state dosnt have anyone to enforce the laws they wont give you a permit

with fish you can see what it is, with coral they need the skeleton
so my question is are they going to kill my coral to determine exactly what species it is?

 

[Scoly]

Thanks for the update guys!

 

[rlpardue]

I'm not sure why this thread is even still active.

NOAA's webpage says that their final ruling can be expected at any time after November X. They say that that list of 66 corals will not be allowed in commerce or even tradable, assuming the ruling does indeed place those corals on the list.

It's getting really hard not to start flaming...

 

[Dsdaley77]

They say that that list of 66 corals will not be allowed in commerce or even tradable, assuming the ruling does indeed place those corals on the list.

Could you elaborate, I must have missed that part. (better yet, quotes or screen shots work well)


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