NP Bacto Balance

[Tombones]

My 125 gallon reef aquarium is over 6 years and full of mostly SPS corals. I just want to make some comments about NP Bacto Balance. I have been using a lanthanum chloride product to lower my phosphates when they get high, over .17 or so but it would take several test and many days to get the lower reading I want. I think the rocks and sand were leaching PO4 and it would take a long time to get rid of it. Researching on line I found NP Bacto Balance and felt it would do a better job for my tank. I used the Lanthanum C. to lower PO4 below .10 and then started a daily dose of Bacto Balance. I thought I would start slow by using .25 ml /100 liters. After a period of four days my PO4 was .04 ppm . I continued dosing each day and after 5-6 days tested again. I have been dosing for a month now and my readings are stable enough I feel comfortable enough to test one time a month. So far I am very happy with Bacto Balance. According to on line videos Bacto Balance is serving as a carbon dosing product that uses bacteria that corals eat. If so I find this product even more beneficial. I bought a 1000ml bottle and if the dose stays the same it will last 1000 days. I think that is a good deal. I well update if anything changes.

 

[Quietman]

Good write up. I've gone through the LaCl3 as well (works great - I didn't have PO4 bound up in rock to any extent) and have used carbon dosing (NoPox) and found it can work very well...sometimes too well. Had to be careful not to drive nutrients down to zero. Nothing can out compete bacteria on nutrient uptake speed.

 

[ZoWhat]

@Tombones

I'm about to try it with my 220g'ish system. I can't keep PO4 under 0.3 unless I dose 30ml of 80proof Vodka every night.

I was thinking about dosing NP Bacto at 25ml each morning, Then possibly 25ml of vodka at night....

Quit the vodka???

or would the vodka at night strengthen the Bacto even more?

.

 

[Brymac1]

@Tombones

I'm about to try it with my 220g'ish system. I can't keep PO4 under 0.3 unless I dose 30ml of 80proof Vodka every night.

I was thinking about dosing NP Bacto at 25ml each morning, Then possibly 25ml of vodka at night....

Quit the vodka???

or would the vodka at night strengthen the Bacto even more?

.

Tropic Marin bacto balance is designed to keep nitrate/phosphate stable. They have another product called Elimi-NP which is a stronger carbon additive which lowers nitrates and phosphates. They suggest using Elimi-NP to lower, then Bactobalance to maintain.

 

[ZoWhat]

Tropic Marin bacto balance is designed to keep nitrate/phosphate stable. They have another product called Elimi-NP which is a stronger carbon additive which lowers nitrates and phosphates. They suggest using Elimi-NP to lower, then Bactobalance to maintain.

Yes. My po4 was 0.1ish until i skipped 4 days of vodka last week. jumped to 0.33

My no3 has been stable at 1.0

Trying Bacto bc I believe my dominated zoa 180g aren't feeding that well on the low no3/po4 I got going on.

Hoping to spur growth of multiple heads on zoas feeding them proper no3/po4 via Bacto...

We'll see.

 

[Big E]

My 125 gallon reef aquarium is over 6 years and full of mostly SPS corals. I just want to make some comments about NP Bacto Balance. I have been using a lanthanum chloride product to lower my phosphates when they get high, over .17 or so but it would take several test and many days to get the lower reading I want. I think the rocks and sand were leaching PO4 and it would take a long time to get rid of it. Researching on line I found NP Bacto Balance and felt it would do a better job for my tank. I used the Lanthanum C. to lower PO4 below .10 and then started a daily dose of Bacto Balance. I thought I would start slow by using .25 ml /100 liters. After a period of four days my PO4 was .04 ppm . I continued dosing each day and after 5-6 days tested again. I have been dosing for a month now and my readings are stable enough I feel comfortable enough to test one time a month. So far I am very happy with Bacto Balance. According to on line videos Bacto Balance is serving as a carbon dosing product that uses bacteria that corals eat. If so I find this product even more beneficial. I bought a 1000ml bottle and if the dose stays the same it will last 1000 days. I think that is a good deal. I well update if anything changes.

One month of dosing is nothing and means little, but keep this review updated over the next year or two.

Bacto balance is professed to maintain a balance but it didn't do that for me. I had to always intervene with GFO. I used it for two years and it did keep N03 stable but just as many carbon only products, eventually the P04 rises. I honestly don't know how a product can work like this without adding a Po4 eating bacteria to compliment it.

I've tracked a UK reefer that has used Bactobalance for 5-6 years and he had the same issue of having to introduce GFO.

I do agree that the product goes a long way and is very cost effective. I was dosing about .2 ml on a 60g acro dominant system. I would also add that the tank is BB with live rock and skimmer as the only export tools so there are no other variables to throw off effectiveness or results.

 

[ZoWhat]

One month of dosing is nothing and means little, but keep this review updated over the next year or two.

Bacto balance is professed to maintain a balance but it didn't do that for me. I had to always intervene with GFO. I used it for two years and it did keep N03 stable but just as many carbon only products, eventually the P04 rises. I honestly don't know how a product can work like this without adding a Po4 eating bacteria to compliment it.

I've tracked a UK reefer that has used Bactobalance for 5-6 years and he had the same issue of having to introduce GFO.

I do agree that the product goes a long way and is very cost effective. I was dosing about .2 ml on a 60g acro dominant system. I would also add that the tank is BB with live rock and skimmer as the only export tools so there are no other variables to throw off effectiveness or results.

You mention po4 #s and left out any description on the effect on corals.

I try try try not to chase #s bc my Capstone Test is my EYES... and if I see corals respond positively or negatively

If my corals are rockin' at 0.5 po4...why push it down to 0.1 or below?

 

[Tombones]

I was dosing about .2 ml on a 60g acro dominant system. I would also add that the tank is BB with live rock and skimmer as the only export tools so there are no other variables to throw off effectiveness or results.

Big E,
I assume you might mean 2 ml/day. In that case that does present a dilemma not exceeding the daily limit.


I honestly don't know how a product can work like this without adding a Po4 eating bacteria to compliment it.

Viewing the videos about Bacto B I thought it was a bacteria based product. Brymac1 in #4 reply reports the stronger product Elimi-NP should be used to lower the PO4 to under .1 and then use Bacto B to lower it to a desired level. If I understand correctly you are using GFO to bring PO4 down below .1 ppm and then the Bacto B is not lowering it down further?
Initially I had the same problem when using Phosphate X, I think because the PO4 would lower and then go back up the next day because I had more PO4 to remove. After the PO4 stayed down to about .1ppm the Bacto B did its job bringing it down further.

I do grow Cheato in my sump but it hasn't grown well for the last 3 years. It just stays the same size. That might be the difference in our tanks. Not sure though.
I checked my Nitrates last week and they fell to 5ppm from 10ppm and my PO4 was at 0. I skipped dosing Bacto B for 1 day and used half the amount there after. I checked again this morning and I was happy to see .03 ppm. Im good with anywhere between .03 and .07ppm .

 

[AquamanE]

Following…..Ive been dosing Balance for approx 6 months and it does maintain my pho4 lower than 0.1 consistently, more along 0.04-0.06. Using Hanna Phosphorous UL. My problem has become corals losing color. So have had to slow down the dosing. I’m at 0.8ml/day with a DOS pump. 250gallon, mainly SPS. I feed heavy. Considering adding +NP to see if that helps.

BTW- NO3 will not get higher than 2 with Nyos test kit.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My 125 gallon reef aquarium is over 6 years and full of mostly SPS corals. I just want to make some comments about NP Bacto Balance. I have been using a lanthanum chloride product to lower my phosphates when they get high, over .17 or so but it would take several test and many days to get the lower reading I want. I think the rocks and sand were leaching PO4 and it would take a long time to get rid of it. Researching on line I found NP Bacto Balance and felt it would do a better job for my tank. I used the Lanthanum C. to lower PO4 below .10 and then started a daily dose of Bacto Balance. I thought I would start slow by using .25 ml /100 liters. After a period of four days my PO4 was .04 ppm . I continued dosing each day and after 5-6 days tested again. I have been dosing for a month now and my readings are stable enough I feel comfortable enough to test one time a month. So far I am very happy with Bacto Balance. According to on line videos Bacto Balance is serving as a carbon dosing product that uses bacteria that corals eat. If so I find this product even more beneficial. I bought a 1000ml bottle and if the dose stays the same it will last 1000 days. I think that is a good deal. I well update if anything changes.

I'm curious as to exactly what problem you are trying to solve with the bactobalance?

All carbon dosing schemes will (should?) provide bacteria for corals and other filter feeders (sponges, etc.). That was the primary reasons I used vinegar.

 

[ZoWhat]

Well. Since my tragic event with LaCl3 in losing a lot of my Tangs a month ago ... ive forced myself to do a deep dive.

[Backstory: I have been seeing expensive zoas shrink to pinheads and discovered the one range I was severely out of was po4 at 1-1.5ppm due to lack of carbon dosing and feasting the tank with tetraselmis phyto. Lighting, flow, calc/alk/mag, no3 all acceptable for my zoas. Po4 was way out of control fir some reason. thus the head first slide into LaCl3 dosing. Urgh. into the Tang tragedy]

Brightwell's phos-e seems like a 'safer' alternative to wicked SeaKlear pool cleaner products...

But I still keep coming back using straight up 80proof Vodka. it seems to do the trick lowering no3/po4 into acceptable ranges.

Problem will vodka is it explodes good bacteria to eat Phosphate BUT also has some unwanted unwanted growth on bad bacteria. Potentially settling up dinner fir nuisance algae to feast on. Potentially causing irritation on my zoas having bad bacteria getting populated by vodka dosing. Who knows...

So my research has led me to Tropic Marin NP Bacto-Balance.

Spoke with Lou today from TM USA and he spent some time with me on the phone.

His bacto-balance product does NOT have any live bacteria in it but German backed science to only feed what the good bacteria wants to eat in his product to populate your tank...thus stabilizing no3/po4 at a level where corals want to eat the small bits if no3/po4 they want without the presence of bad bacteria.

Seems like pretty "selective science". I will see for myself as the bacto-balance regiment requires me to stop vodka dosing and rely on their bacto-balance product A L O N E

 

[Tombones]

I'm curious as to exactly what problem you are trying to solve with the bactobalance?

All carbon dosing schemes will (should?) provide bacteria for corals and other filter feeders (sponges, etc.). That was the primary reasons I used vinegar.

For me carbon dosing sometimes worked and sometimes not. I almost never had any problems with Nitrates but PO4 would always rise and I started using lanthanum chloride and it did lower PO4 but I did worry about lanthanum c. building up over time and the effect on tangs. Although L.C. products are not expensive they do almost cost as much as a 1000ml of Bacto B. With L.C. I had to check PO4 too often and I wanted something that would require less testing. Now that I have zeroed in on how much to add I feel that I can test less often and will last a far longer period of time.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

For me carbon dosing sometimes worked and sometimes not. I almost never had any problems with Nitrates but PO4 would always rise and I started using lanthanum chloride and it did lower PO4 but I did worry about lanthanum c. building up over time and the effect on tangs. Although L.C. products are not expensive they do almost cost as much as a 1000ml of Bacto B. With L.C. I had to check PO4 too often and I wanted something that would require less testing. Now that I have zeroed in on how much to add I feel that I can test less often and will last a far longer period of time.

Carbon dosing is not, in general, a great way to lower phosphate, as you found. I don't think the cost comparison is valid, but let's see what happens to N and P over time with the bactobalance.

 

[Big E]

You mention po4 #s and left out any description on the effect on corals.

I try try try not to chase #s bc my Capstone Test is my EYES... and if I see corals respond positively or negatively

If my corals are rockin' at 0.5 po4...why push it down to 0.1 or below?

I was dosing about .2 ml on a 60g acro dominant system. I would also add that the tank is BB with live rock and skimmer as the only export tools so there are no other variables to throw off effectiveness or results.

Big E,
I assume you might mean 2 ml/day. In that case that does present a dilemma not exceeding the daily limit.


I honestly don't know how a product can work like this without adding a Po4 eating bacteria to compliment it.

Viewing the videos about Bacto B I thought it was a bacteria based product. Brymac1 in #4 reply reports the stronger product Elimi-NP should be used to lower the PO4 to under .1 and then use Bacto B to lower it to a desired level. If I understand correctly you are using GFO to bring PO4 down below .1 ppm and then the Bacto B is not lowering it down further?
Initially I had the same problem when using Phosphate X, I think because the PO4 would lower and then go back up the next day because I had more PO4 to remove. After the PO4 stayed down to about .1ppm the Bacto B did its job bringing it down further.

I do grow Cheato in my sump but it hasn't grown well for the last 3 years. It just stays the same size. That might be the difference in our tanks. Not sure though.
I checked my Nitrates last week and they fell to 5ppm from 10ppm and my PO4 was at 0. I skipped dosing Bacto B for 1 day and used half the amount there after. I checked again this morning and I was happy to see .03 ppm. Im good with anywhere between .03 and .07ppm .

I went back and tracked my records----

I never dosed more than .8ml. I started out at .5ml and never got above .8ml dose in my 15 months of use. I didn't want to lower N03 below 4.0 and also if I went higher with doses it was causing cyano. I mainly kept in the .5mls dosing range. I dosed down to .2mls when I had cyano or if my nitrates would drop to far down.

The day I started bacto balance on 12/18-17 my levels were P04-.05----N03- 10.0

12-18-17 --.05 10.0

1-4-18-- .03 5.0

1-31-18-- .02 5.0

Starting at 3-31-18 I started to get Po4 drifting above .10ppm. Nitrates stayed in the 5.0 range

From then on P04 kept drifting up to the .15-.19 range. At these levels my acros always slow down in growth and also alk consumption would go down.

For next year had I to intervene every few months due to rising P04. I would use GFO to lower back down. I did not want to raise Bactobal doses as I wanted to keep N03 levels at 5.0

I never used Elimi NP. I had no knowledge of what that product did at the time and again I did not want my Nitrates low.

When I dosed bacto balance to .8mls is when my N03 would almost bottom out to .2-.5ppm

4-11-19---stopped Bacto balance.

If you want to get more in depth I suggest you read this thread--

My 65G Shallow Reef Tank - Page 11 - Reef Central Online Community

Page 11- My 65G Shallow Reef Tank SPS Keepers

reefcentral.com

He has more success and longer experiences than me. I would consider him an authority using these products. He also goes by "trout" on the Ultimate Reef forum.

Those threads give a more day to day experience.

On R2R here----

Build Thread - My 65G Shallow Reef Tank

Hi all, This thread is about my 65-Gallon shallow reef tank, which I set up nearly 9 years ago. It has been an interesting journey. I have experimented numerous methods over the years to keep the animals living in it healthy and gained a lot knowledge and experience along the way. I began reef...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ZoWhat]

During your po4 rise you should have called Lou at TM USA. He's the main TM contact in our country.... very knowledgeable (20+ yrs with TM) and very personable on the phone

Contact

Office Hours Monday to Friday 9:00 AM EST to 5 PM EST Lou & Leslie Eku s Office Phone: 413-367-0101 Email: [email protected]

www.tropicmarin-usa.com

 

[Big E]

I prefer to talk to actual reefers using the product on their tanks.

 

[MJV15]

My 125 gallon reef aquarium is over 6 years and full of mostly SPS corals. I just want to make some comments about NP Bacto Balance. I have been using a lanthanum chloride product to lower my phosphates when they get high, over .17 or so but it would take several test and many days to get the lower reading I want. I think the rocks and sand were leaching PO4 and it would take a long time to get rid of it. Researching on line I found NP Bacto Balance and felt it would do a better job for my tank. I used the Lanthanum C. to lower PO4 below .10 and then started a daily dose of Bacto Balance. I thought I would start slow by using .25 ml /100 liters. After a period of four days my PO4 was .04 ppm . I continued dosing each day and after 5-6 days tested again. I have been dosing for a month now and my readings are stable enough I feel comfortable enough to test one time a month. So far I am very happy with Bacto Balance. According to on line videos Bacto Balance is serving as a carbon dosing product that uses bacteria that corals eat. If so I find this product even more beneficial. I bought a 1000ml bottle and if the dose stays the same it will last 1000 days. I think that is a good deal. I well update if anything changes.

How’s it impacting your nitrate levels?

 

[Tombones]

How’s it impacting your nitrate levels?

At first PO4 went down very close to zero and so I started dosing .05ml rather than 1ml. but now I had to go back to 1ml and PO4 is steady between 7-9ppm. No3 went down to 5ppm from 10ppm and has stayed there the entire time. I have been using a sock because my return creates bubbles and makes my cheato float and some of it dries out on top.