john.m.cole3
cyclOps
Any recommendations for peroxide to water ratios?
Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread
- Thread starter brandon429
- Start date
- Tagged users None
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
- Messages
- 31,035
- Reaction score
- 23,937
- Location
- tejas
- What state or country do you live in
- Alaska
the more burn the better... and if it was my sand I do believe it would get a short vinegar soak too. My peroxide would be the 35% from nature store on 82nd and Quaker or just a few cheap brown bottles all dumped in the rinsed sand that was already cleaned. Left a few hrs.
Pre tested in a side dish for dissolution time... one can control the ability to burn just the top layer off the sand where supposedly the phosphate from prior use has an affinity for the arrangement of the calcium carbonate that makes up the bulk of substrate exterior
it's true that tank keepers who had live rock in a sustained eutrophic tank muriatic acid burn the rock... same here but on a micro level and with weaker acid. Most wouldn't take the time to prep old sand but what else would be as fun
Those rocks you made are really well bio planned I can attest really they've cooked ideally. Full of bac.
The tank can be setup and be known to be free of literally all obligate hitchhiker maladies for both fish and substrate the way you've guided the curing rock.
But the non obligate hitchhikers...those that get around without our help, the same routine runs the new rock when it's back under lighting and nutrient: frag trades even with good intent and pre scrape cleansing will bring in new battles, attack with metal
Or, find a grazer balance and by all means use any doser that works. These rocks won't be immune to invasion, they're just the best possible playing field in your favor. Guaranteed w holler soon after wk next day or two and quit being antisocial and come look at it lol
:)
the rocks will carry all initial bioloading the sand won't matter if it's burned new or cycled by itself.
Pre tested in a side dish for dissolution time... one can control the ability to burn just the top layer off the sand where supposedly the phosphate from prior use has an affinity for the arrangement of the calcium carbonate that makes up the bulk of substrate exterior
it's true that tank keepers who had live rock in a sustained eutrophic tank muriatic acid burn the rock... same here but on a micro level and with weaker acid. Most wouldn't take the time to prep old sand but what else would be as fun
Those rocks you made are really well bio planned I can attest really they've cooked ideally. Full of bac.
The tank can be setup and be known to be free of literally all obligate hitchhiker maladies for both fish and substrate the way you've guided the curing rock.
But the non obligate hitchhikers...those that get around without our help, the same routine runs the new rock when it's back under lighting and nutrient: frag trades even with good intent and pre scrape cleansing will bring in new battles, attack with metal
Or, find a grazer balance and by all means use any doser that works. These rocks won't be immune to invasion, they're just the best possible playing field in your favor. Guaranteed w holler soon after wk next day or two and quit being antisocial and come look at it lol
:)
the rocks will carry all initial bioloading the sand won't matter if it's burned new or cycled by itself.
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
Time to bust out the brown and green bottles, peroxide and Heineken respectively, lol.
Did you get any good drone footage of the snow? Talk to ya soon!
Did you get any good drone footage of the snow? Talk to ya soon!
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
Heck yeah 2017, bring it on. Bacteria still acts the same and they make no new years rsolutions, so we shopuld be good to continue using them for our own good. The reason I'm posting now is bc I am setting up a new frag system. I took some partially dried rock and threw it in a bucket w/ a lid, a heater, and 2 powerheads about 4 months ago. Ghost fed mysis and pellets about every 2 weeks. Then I removed some live rock from my sump and did the same in another bucket. I'm guessing I have about 40 ish lbs of cycled rock. I want to do an experiment and post my findings here. The new tank will be a 40b and it will be bare bottom for the initial set up. I have ammonium chloride and Salifert ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate test kits. This weekend I'll set it up and report back. Definitely pictures to be included. Is there anything else I should test or measure? This is going to be a fun cycle I'm thinking and am hoping to skip cycle like @brandon429 says we can. Stay tuned!
domination2580
Reef-a-nator
- Joined
- May 16, 2015
- Messages
- 5,462
- Reaction score
- 2,789
- Location
- Mitchell SD
- What state or country do you live in
- South Dakota
I just put used sand in my tank, I took rodi water through a pump and house on the bottom of the bucket that had the sand in it amd flushed all the gunk out, let the water flow over the bucket so either outside or in the tub...took about 10 5 gallon buckets to get it pretty well cleared
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
dangit I posted here again instead of the cycling thread. I need the live rock=dead shrimp thread. so sorry Brandon!
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
- Messages
- 31,035
- Reaction score
- 23,937
- Location
- tejas
- What state or country do you live in
- Alaska
This one is plenty good for bac reviews ha! You surely cycled that rock patiently and with good circulation good to go
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
- Messages
- 31,035
- Reaction score
- 23,937
- Location
- tejas
- What state or country do you live in
- Alaska
This is how a sandbed looks when made able to pass a drop test/ zero clouding...sand grains fall back down harmlessly
Corals and rock removed before cleaning are set back on the rinsed bed, skip cycle reassembly as we've shown in this thread.
Several gallons of clean salt water is flushed through the bed as a final rinse after the tap water, this is my ongoing annual maintenance
it resets each time as if it was new
before cleaning after mos of hands off:
then the harsh cleaning, leaving absolutely zero detritus to recycle *the final rinse was in saltwater I didn't put corals back in over tap water*
This is the same vase 24 hrs later all put back, highly delicate with no dilution to protect against ammonia, it's health shows this is a skip cycle technique for 11 yrs:
My sand bed is immune to all forms of invasion through this method. For all the countless dosers, verification testing/ID threads, reactions we read about to diatoms and cyanobacteria invasions-- this sure is a cheap and effective alternate. Eleven years invasion free due to forced compliance by keeping the system clean. I imported the same invaders on my frags as anyone... but I didn't let them takeover
The size of the tank affords unique access it's much harder to do this in large tanks
Corals and rock removed before cleaning are set back on the rinsed bed, skip cycle reassembly as we've shown in this thread.
Several gallons of clean salt water is flushed through the bed as a final rinse after the tap water, this is my ongoing annual maintenance
it resets each time as if it was new
before cleaning after mos of hands off:
then the harsh cleaning, leaving absolutely zero detritus to recycle *the final rinse was in saltwater I didn't put corals back in over tap water*
This is the same vase 24 hrs later all put back, highly delicate with no dilution to protect against ammonia, it's health shows this is a skip cycle technique for 11 yrs:
My sand bed is immune to all forms of invasion through this method. For all the countless dosers, verification testing/ID threads, reactions we read about to diatoms and cyanobacteria invasions-- this sure is a cheap and effective alternate. Eleven years invasion free due to forced compliance by keeping the system clean. I imported the same invaders on my frags as anyone... but I didn't let them takeover
The size of the tank affords unique access it's much harder to do this in large tanks
Last edited:
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
that's a solid clean bro. If I may play devil's advocate for a moment... what about all the good bacteria that live in the sand? don't you kill it all off when you do this?
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
- Messages
- 31,035
- Reaction score
- 23,937
- Location
- tejas
- What state or country do you live in
- Alaska
that's the resounding question 100% from everyone even comments on the vid...makes for fun rinse microbiology talks
the bac are incidental and not needed...live rock alone will run our systems and reduce our ammonia to nitrate so if I burn some bac out the system cannot tell. Sandbeds in reef tanks tend to contribute nitrate, not ever reduce it, so marine pure blocks and other anaerobic means *that dont store detritus* came about. That's not to say every sandbed is a liability... just every one you and I will ever setup and measure 5 mos later :) (meaning the vast majority of reefers will see that fact)
after this vid cap above I soaked the whole bed in diluted 35% peroxide for ten mins... extra burn! I want the slicks and organics gone- it'll run bone clean for another 8 mos after this cleaning.
the tap rinsing doesn't sterilize much better than regular water for this duration, physical flushing of the bac from surfaces is the greater loss but ability to pass a drop test is the goal. Leftover bac on the grain surface area rebound quickly as well
The peroxide burn is harsher lol. I practice keeping sand this clean when its in a display tank, up under all the downfalling waste and whole particles that they eventually sink up...for remote sandbeds, or sandbeds in refugia different factors are in play and people might not clean them as assertively.
the bac are incidental and not needed...live rock alone will run our systems and reduce our ammonia to nitrate so if I burn some bac out the system cannot tell. Sandbeds in reef tanks tend to contribute nitrate, not ever reduce it, so marine pure blocks and other anaerobic means *that dont store detritus* came about. That's not to say every sandbed is a liability... just every one you and I will ever setup and measure 5 mos later :) (meaning the vast majority of reefers will see that fact)
after this vid cap above I soaked the whole bed in diluted 35% peroxide for ten mins... extra burn! I want the slicks and organics gone- it'll run bone clean for another 8 mos after this cleaning.
the tap rinsing doesn't sterilize much better than regular water for this duration, physical flushing of the bac from surfaces is the greater loss but ability to pass a drop test is the goal. Leftover bac on the grain surface area rebound quickly as well
The peroxide burn is harsher lol. I practice keeping sand this clean when its in a display tank, up under all the downfalling waste and whole particles that they eventually sink up...for remote sandbeds, or sandbeds in refugia different factors are in play and people might not clean them as assertively.
Last edited:
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
awesome explanation. I'm going to share this to the fb page. you da man Mr. Brandon
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
- Messages
- 31,035
- Reaction score
- 23,937
- Location
- tejas
- What state or country do you live in
- Alaska
you use the same feeding tools I use too
those little pipettes w deliver single oyster eggs like little marbles rolling out into lps they're so handy. After these rip cleanings we are all documenting, the tanks have such an amazing reserve reset for the feeding you mention. you can feed and it doesn't cause brown growths on the glass for a long time, I neglect my tank pretty bad after them because I can./
the number of ongoing tank challenges that can be arrested with this type of cleaning is a huge amount...most tank keepers wont get past the fear of disturbance and loss so this type of tank access is actually the rarest mode of reefkeeping still to date. Those using the method are enjoying secret stability, not instability.
That giant vibrant thread going on in this forum---> most are reactive dosings done in the presence of a sandbed that fails the drop test
they're getting cyano because of being hands off
Any tank that is going to dose something as broadcast against a target should start that doser after the sandbed fuel source is assessed and as much target removed by hand detailing as possible
The doser will then have a much greater chance when it's fighting growback vs killing a large communal mass
Being hands off on a reef tank causes more problems than import, we can't hardly prevent the import as we add frags and fish, its the action plan that is missing. I will never need any water doser to be permanently algae free forever but that's also a lucky aspect of pico reefs in general. Large keepers get all the great fish
those little pipettes w deliver single oyster eggs like little marbles rolling out into lps they're so handy. After these rip cleanings we are all documenting, the tanks have such an amazing reserve reset for the feeding you mention. you can feed and it doesn't cause brown growths on the glass for a long time, I neglect my tank pretty bad after them because I can./
the number of ongoing tank challenges that can be arrested with this type of cleaning is a huge amount...most tank keepers wont get past the fear of disturbance and loss so this type of tank access is actually the rarest mode of reefkeeping still to date. Those using the method are enjoying secret stability, not instability.
That giant vibrant thread going on in this forum---> most are reactive dosings done in the presence of a sandbed that fails the drop test
they're getting cyano because of being hands off
Any tank that is going to dose something as broadcast against a target should start that doser after the sandbed fuel source is assessed and as much target removed by hand detailing as possible
The doser will then have a much greater chance when it's fighting growback vs killing a large communal mass
Being hands off on a reef tank causes more problems than import, we can't hardly prevent the import as we add frags and fish, its the action plan that is missing. I will never need any water doser to be permanently algae free forever but that's also a lucky aspect of pico reefs in general. Large keepers get all the great fish
Last edited:
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
- Messages
- 31,035
- Reaction score
- 23,937
- Location
- tejas
- What state or country do you live in
- Alaska
John
Hey man when you dosed vibrant for valonia did it cause cyano for you? Wondering if it made you have to clean for cyano again even after all that sandbed work
If it killed valonia then cyano won't matter anyway it's a walk in the park fix on bare bottom tanks. Valonia is evil plant
Hey man when you dosed vibrant for valonia did it cause cyano for you? Wondering if it made you have to clean for cyano again even after all that sandbed work
If it killed valonia then cyano won't matter anyway it's a walk in the park fix on bare bottom tanks. Valonia is evil plant
I use those pipettes for everything even non tank stuff lol. I noticed my sand gets screwed to hell when I feed reef roids and a 5-50 micron plankton slurry about every other day for about 2 ml weekly (experimenting). Its as if the sand sucks it up and starts to clump.
I have the same problem with Vibrant it's great and works but if my nitrates are higher than 5-10ppm red slime everywhere when the hair algae starts dying off
I have the same problem with Vibrant it's great and works but if my nitrates are higher than 5-10ppm red slime everywhere when the hair algae starts dying off
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
Yeah I'm having a pretty sweet cyano bloom, but like you said, that's nothing compared to valonia, bryopsis, or hair algae. I had all 3 of those and they are all gone. A h2o2 regimen put in place for 2 weeks will knock out all of this cyano. It's really interesting to think about how algaes have been converted into dissolved organics that are feeding the red slime. Fun experiments, but I agree with you that using vibrant after a rip cleaning as a preventative measure would be best practice.
OP
OP
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2014
- Messages
- 31,035
- Reaction score
- 23,937
- Location
- tejas
- What state or country do you live in
- Alaska
hey and that info is amazing because your tank was pretty free of the cyano before the val came right? what a strong link between Vibrant and cyano, strong as in every single poster that uses it apparently. your tank doesn't have nutrient stores, something is feeding that cyano directly how interesting
Similar threads
