Old Ways vs New Ways of Reefing

Goubli

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I will give you my opinion on your question first before my overall experience of 20 plus years. Why not take a medium size piece of the dead rock (assuming it's clean and also assuming it's not like dead pukani with it's large phosphate leaching) and put it into the sump of the existing live rock tank. After a few weeks or so then transfer that to the dark garbage can to seed the dry rock? That's what I would do.

I remember the days when my dad set up the under gravel filter and we did the damsel, dead coral and even tried the purple tip anemones. My dad didn't have a science background and just tried to do his best in a time where information could really only be gathered by books (we had none) and the LFS who were way less helpful than they are now.

In high school I remember us having a 55 gallon that we just had fish that we kept and a large snowflake eel which we loved as kids. This was when the wet/dry bioballs and sumps were the latest rage. We never had a skimmer and fish miraculously lived! LOL.

In college I had no money or time to try for a tank. Near the end of college I was accepted to medical school and decided that since I was gonna be stuck at my apartment I would try and start my first reef. I bought a used Oceanic 110 and I ordered my first live rock from TBS and it was amazing. We had some tanks in the department I was working in and we put the rock in the tank to keep it wet until I moved. We found a mantis shrimp hitchhiker which was cool bc my friend kept it and I got it out before setting up the tank.

The tank set up relatively quickly (Berlin method) and did very well. 4 months after setup we had a storm that took out power for 3 days and the tank crashed and I was super sad (as all tank crashes are) and debated quitting. But to my surprise after a few months of the restart (with no new rock) a lot of life survived the power outage and 60 degree water from the winter time crash. I am talking zooanthids, mollusks, some sponges etc. It really taught me a valuable lesson about the ability for life to find a way to live. The tank was just softies/LPS w VHO lighting and fish. I made all the rookie mistakes with gsp and xenia and mushrooms. The whole tank was overgrown but I loved it.

I kept the same tank through a move to another apartment and then even across state lines (vowed to never do that again despite not losing a single coral or fish). When I moved to AZ I wanted to wait to get a more permanent living situation before setting up again. But 8 years out of the hobby later things dramatically changed with all the dry rock craze and no more access to the good live rock. Now controllers were the rage, LEDs, GFO vs algae reactors etc. I got another used tank this time Red Sea 650 Max S to experiment with and try SPS this time.

After all the research I went with dry pukani. Man. What a pain despite it being beautiful rock. Took forever to leach out the phosphate in the garage, and still went through ugly phase. Much worse phase than what I ever had with the real live rock. The most valuable thing I take away from this experience with rock is that it's much easier to start a new tank with already seasoned rock. I don't have the patience to deal with the weird phases of dry rock. I never had cyano on other tanks.

This has been long winded so apologies!

TL/DR:

Dry rock is a slower, uglier process but does allow for cool aquascapes. If you can, try and seed it prior to display tank.

Some of the new tech is really cool and convenient, but it also has potential to massively inconvenience you or cause disasters. They are not set it and forget it.

You can have an amazing tank with minimal equipment. If you are a person that wants/needs quick results or a full reef earlier then stay away from SPS and stick to softies (not that there is anything wrong with that btw). Any downturn in SPS (and it will happen at some point) takes longer to correct than softies which is annoying.

The longer you are around the hobby the more in depth you plan each new tank. It's such a wonderfully satisfying journey filled with all the emotions of life.
 
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I will give you my opinion on your question first before my overall experience of 20 plus years. Why not take a medium size piece of the dead rock (assuming it's clean and also assuming it's not like dead pukani with it's large phosphate leaching) and put it into the sump of the existing live rock tank. After a few weeks or so then transfer that to the dark garbage can to seed the dry rock? That's what I would do.
Not a bad idea. What I’d like to do is establish a method that could work for a brand new build and ideally with the biodiversity of ocean rock. BUT if this works like I hope, it could offer an option to replace the ocean rock with LFS or fellow hobbyist established live rock. I’m hoping to seed dry rock and avoid uglies. I strongly believe we lack biodiversity in our tanks and no amount of bottled bacteria can match that.

Thank you for the “long winded” story and history. I love hearing about other experiences!
 

Rusty_L_Shackleford

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I consider myself an old school reefer. When I got into the hobby the only rock available was Fiji rock that came wrapped in wet newspaper and stunk bad. Curing was putting into a vat for a month with skimming and water changes and letting what was gonna die off, die off and stuff stabilize before you put it in a tank. We DIYed a lot more because there just wasn't the gear available there is now and what was available coat a fortune.

The formula for a successful reef hasn't changed. You need good light, good food, good water and good flow. The tools for accomplishing that have come amazingly far. 10 years ago I got out of the hobby after over 10 years in and moved to Hawaii to study marine bio and aquaculture. I moved back to the mainland a year and a half ago and set up a tank and holy moly has gear gotten plentiful and cheap. There's so much stuff out there, you can get good used gear for a song. The hobby is so much easier and accessible than back in the day.
 

ca1ore

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I see no particular advantage to using live rock (or sand) in the medium to long term. Any flora/fauna diversity you get with live is unlikely to persist beyond the short term, unless you are constantly replenishing. Worms, stars, coralline algae will soon find their way in as HH on corals. A couple of seed rocks from an established system will get the biofilter going.

Ironically the ‘old’ process of curing fresh rock killed off much of the life anyhow.
 

Gregg @ ADP

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Ironically the ‘old’ process of curing fresh rock killed off much of the life anyhow.
That’s why I never cured it.

You could always tell a new tank that I had just set up by the cloudy water, the smell, and the little pieces of newspaper swirling around.

But those tanks with uncured Fiji rock cycled almost instantly. The ugly stage back then was a huge briopsis breakout, which once things were settled down, could be pretty easily harvested out (along with all those extra Ps and Ns), and CUCs would take care of the rest.

It was always amazing how much stuff would live. I had never considered buying any Pocillopora, because some would always come in with the rock.
 
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I don’t cure fresh ocean rock either. It’s been added right to a tank, lights on.

IMG_4295.jpeg
 

Gregg @ ADP

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I don’t cure fresh ocean rock either. It’s been added right to a tank, lights on.

IMG_4295.jpeg
Oh, for sure.

I was referring to the old Fiji live rock. I would order it from my distributor, and it came in 50lb boxes and was wrapped in wet newspaper. That’s where curing live rock came from, because that stuff was dirty and nasty.

Of course, I never cured it even though it was dirty and nasty. To me, it’s all just matter, most of which I want to have as part of the ecosystem. So with a new tank, I would dump it in, give it a few days to process through the ammonia, and then it was cycling.
 
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Oh, for sure.

I was referring to the old Fiji live rock. I would order it from my distributor, and it came in 50lb boxes and was wrapped in wet newspaper. That’s where curing live rock came from, because that stuff was dirty and nasty.

Of course, I never cured it even though it was dirty and nasty. To me, it’s all just matter, most of which I want to have as part of the ecosystem. So with a new tank, I would dump it in, give it a few days to process through the ammonia, and then it was cycling.
That’s old Fiji stuff was out of the water for a while! Still great rock.
 

Sump Crab

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I miss the old rock ways. I got Fiji rock on my first tank and one day I look over and an entire 3lb piece sort of moved - gosh dang clam or something was a part of the rock - every day it would move a little opening. Tank crashed in a move from apt to house. Never recovered. Started over but wasn’t same. Those critters and hitchhikers were amazing to watch. I didn’t buy lots of corals, I just sort of cultivated the weird stuff on my rock lol. No Dino’s no cyano, T5 on with timer, no schedules to be a genius for with apps.

This new start I got some cultured rock and LFS rock and it’s meh- cycle was okay but having all bad ugly stuff I never really dealt with back in the day.

The hitchhiker's we used to get from Fiji, Tonga, etc. rocks were incredible! That era of liverock availability is what brought me into the hobby. Having a fish tank full of cool and interesting critters from the bottom of a coral reef was incredible. The rock shapes were also unique which added to the cool factor. I, like you, didn't even need many corals because the life on the rock was so incredible. A FOWLR tank could look just as natural and incredible as a lot of reef tanks. FOWLRs with dry rock just look comical to me now...
 
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The hitchhiker's we used to get from Fiji, Tonga, etc. rocks were incredible! That era of liverock availability is what brought me into the hobby. Having a fish tank full of cool and interesting critters from the bottom of a coral reef was incredible. The rock shapes were also unique which added to the cool factor. I, like you, didn't even need many corals because the life on the rock was so incredible. A FOWLR tank could look just as natural and incredible as a lot of reef tanks. FOWLRs with dry rock just look comical to me now...
The hitchhikers were some of my favorite parts of the ocean rock. Some cool stuff on there!
 

Paul B

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Wow really? Like what?
I live near a beach so I often go there and collect amphipods, sea weed, water, mud, rocks or any other creatures I find interesting. This stuff goes right in. I have been doing this for decades and never had any problems. I don't have to quarantine and never medicate.

I feel the natural bacteria is the most important thing missing in this hobby and the reason we have disease forums.

 

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I too miss the "old days" of rock from Fiji, Tonga, Marshalls, etc. That stuff was fantastic even with the shipping times and the wet newspaper. My tanks never had any of the issues that I see with the newer tanks. I recently just put up a 60 cube after a long hiatus and started with a bit of dry old "live" rock that I had laying around and a new order of Australian live rock from Jason @PristineMarineAquariums. I must say that the Australian rock although expensive just might be my favorite rock yet. It's super lightweight and VERY porous unlike the iron weight Tonga of times past. It shipped well and arrived fresh smelling and right into my tank. Water is crystal clear this morning and everything is doing fantastic. If I had a bigger tank I'd be buying more in a heartbeat. IMO, nothing beats the diversity of true live rock, yes you can add bottled bac, but that's only a handful of strains compared to what is actually in live rock.
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Goubli

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Yeah the lack of biodiversity-particularly the microfauna and bacteria is the biggest missing piece of the "new era" of reef keeping. I used to love seeing all the amphipods scramble around at night on the rock and in the sand bed.

The issue I have now with what I see from TBS rock is that they are just round pieces of rock that can't really build a scape with interest. I would personally get a few pieces of their rock to essentially seed the dead rock if I was building a newer tank. I would let that stuff sit in a tank/vat in garage with some low level lights as if a tank for like 8 mos to a year and then consider moving that into a display.

I would like to just get some sand from a scuba diving friend to toss into my tank. I would have no worries about what it would bring in. I have found you just aren't going to be able to avoid "pests" no matter how much you try and minimize risk.

Funny story about ability for things to live from circa 2001. I had a friend who went to Florida from Louisiana and was at the beach. He brought back a "live" sand dollar he found in a cup of sand and water. I told him thanks, but figured it was likely dead after the temp changes and no oxygen etc over the long drive. I told him it probably would not make it but let's see. I just took it out and tossed it into the tank with ZERO attempt to temp correct or balance salinity differences.

Lo and behold that thing lived in my tank for years. I was shocked to say the least. It was pretty awesome to have an actual living sand dollar in the tank. I still have its skeleton after it died some years down the road.
 

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