Opening a Local Fish Store Questions/Comments/Concerns

[420reefing]

I think the fact the previous store decided not to re-open is a telling indicator. The economics of opening any brick and mortar store is tough right now and pet stores are some of the hardest. It is hard to compete with basement coral growers/hobbyist on price and the fish side is a mess like others have mentioned.

I have spent an ungodly amount of money on the hobby like many others, but I generally avoid LFS like the plague. What would make me start going into a LFS and be a good customer?

(1) Fishless coral systems. I cringe when I walk into a LFS and see an obviously diseased fish swimming along the coral. I want to buy local coral to avoid shipping cost and stress...but come on. Too many LFS comingle their fish and coral operations. I MIGHT trust your coral, but I definitely don't trust your fish.

(2) QT fish. If you can't tell from my first suggestion I don't buy fish from the LFS anymore. Might as well go to the red light district to pick out your significant other. I am willing to pay a hefty premium for healthy fish. Many are. Problem is that new hobbyist aren't...its an acquired cost tolerance once you figure out the true cost of buying unhealthy fish.

I don't care about dry goods. I know they are good margin for the shop but I can get them much cheaper online. It is what it is.

Admittedly, most LFS I am aware of survive off new hobbyist not someone like me. But new hobbyist are fickle customers...its a catch 22 of sorts.

Completely understand what you mean about the previous store not reopening. IMO this was a result of a horrible local reputation for having poor husbandry. Fish often looked sickly and coral tanks were full of pest and aptasia. On top of that the staff was extremely unknowledgeable. Outside of food and an emergency heater or small pump I refused to shop there.

 

[Jedi Shrimp]

I’m in Switzerland, maybe my view doesn’t apply for you.
What I love in my lfs is the contact with the owner and other clients and the possibility to watch amazing corals. I see it like a visit to a friendly place where I can stay for a while watching things and take a coffee. And of course buy things, even if it’s cheaper online, to support a place I love to go.

 

[Spare time]

For QT maybe I offer like a QT package that’s everything you need to instantly set one up.

Maybe give them a little pamphlet guide with it. That is something you would need to play around with.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Having had an LFS 12 years, some of the challenges:
Cost of rent/sq footage
Common area maintenance costs
Payroll and workman's comp expenses
Electrical usage
Advertising and signage expense
Loss of livestock
Minimal order numbers
Summer is slow season as people are traveling, attending fairs, festivals and family functions
A lot of the stock is dated and can be expired with shelf life
Competition

Lastly- you will work 80 hours and maybe after expenses end up with what you made in 40 hours at times

 

[BadMagnificentFirefish]

Not an owner, but I worked full time at a dedicated saltwater LFS for a year. I primarily serviced maintenance accounts, driving around with a van full of saltwater and RODI.

The owner told me that maintenance accounts were his bread and butter, and that’s what kept the doors open.

I would like to offer some input on employee retention. At the store I was at, the owner offered generous employee discounts. 30% off dry goods, 50% off livestock, and free salt/RODI (within reason). While this was great at getting young people with a passion for the hobby, it was not a great way to retain people long term. It didn’t pay great in terms of dollars, certainly not enough to live on.
I joined the store because I had a passion for the hobby and I wanted to learn. It was great for that! I got out because I got to the top of a very short ladder, dollar-wise. There were some other people who worked full time too, some really great knowledgeable people who could sell the big ticket items like tanks and lights. At least one ended up at a car dealership pursuing more lucrative opportunities.
All that to say, if you do get ahold of some good people, consider what they’re worth, and try to keep them around.

 

[Dr. D]

As a hobbyist, I take my hat off to you. I wish you were in my area.

As an advisor to scores of businesses and would-be businesses, I must caution you. The LFS industry is a dying industry. To try and buck that trend is likely a Quixotic endeavor. Without a significant online presence, the best you can hope for may be breaking even. The reality will likely be harsher.

If you can afford this as an expensive hobby or late-life dream fulfillment, I salute you. If not, I still salute you, but worry about you.

 

[BasementBox]

I have done some for sure. Also kind of gaging it on the amount of frags that I sell locally.

I think it’s awesome. But also you need to set up an online footprint almost immediately or you’ll just be another lfs stuck in the corner of a dead minimall. While my favorite lfs store has a weak webpage. Their social media engagement is flawless. They’re called absolutely fish in New Jersey. They sell corals and fresh water as well. When I plan to go it’s thrilling. They have a huge selection of popular fish and their more expensive and rare species they showcase with weekly highlights.

Not only that. But what makes me come back is knowledgeable staff. Not just the owner. Each employee has a specialization department and stick to it. There is an atmosphere that’s welcoming, and ‘wonderous’ as they have 3-4 reef tanks that are just out there on display, SHOWING their knowledge. If I as a customer can see that the shop knows how to keep a true reef tank going in the shop, just display (fish for sale in it) how much more likely would you feel relaxed seeing this dude growing acro of the year?

 

[Dr. D]

Having had an LFS 12 years, some of the challenges:
Cost of rent/sq footage
Common area maintenance costs
Payroll and workman's comp expenses
Electrical usage
Advertising and signage expense
Loss of livestock
Minimal order numbers
Summer is slow season as people are traveling, attending fairs, festivals and family functions
A lot of the stock is dated and can be expired with shelf life
Competition

Lastly- you will work 80 hours and maybe after expenses end up with what you made in 40 hours at times

^^ THIS

 

[Justfebreezeit]

Clean, Pest free coral. Clean looking fish and systems

 

[Reef-Mart]

Where are you located? Would love to throw some business your way.

Down in Edwardsburg, right on the state line. Let me know if you need a hand if/when you decide to go for it!

 

[Reef-Mart]

It's was always a weird feeling when someone would come with a problem they couldn't solve and would argue with any advice that was given.

Yea I don’t get it, but we were all new once!

 

[Aquadude1]

Yea I don’t get it, but we were all new once!

Very true

 

[DrV4n]

I like to support my LFS by buying consumables even though they cost more: test kits, reagents, food, packaged phytoplankton and copepods resold from another supplier, etc. If they had a rigorous QT process I trusted for their fish I would also pay a lot more for that service because I’m buying from online vendors that do that, but idk if there are enough local reefers who would do the same. Same with corals and inverts if they were in a fishless system long enough to outrun fish disease lifecycles, that was far enough from other systems. But I think I am at the top end of QT paranoia.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

So here is my crazy who cents. Maintainance accounts for sure!

How about making your own aquariums, stands, and filters for sale? Not tough and you will get all the custom sales that pays more than buying stuff sold online. You will never beat PetCo or PetSmart or the online retailers at their game so do not sell or stock the same stuff. I recommend acrylic for the tanks and filters. The cost of insurance for this is much lower than glass. Again just a crazy thought. You can get a really capable CNC machine to cut your parts for less than $20,000.00.

You will never win the chemotherapy game of treating fish with prophylactic shot gun approaches. You must understand that the oceans and lakes do not have chemotherapy in nature. Why is that? There are other ways, but I will bring down the wrath of all the expert naysayers. Many have already weighed in. Biosecurity is almost impossible for the average hobbiest let alone store. I designed and built many successful stores for my customers during my years in the industry. You should study fish farming for some of your answers. If you go the treatment option at least get a good microscope and learn how to diagnose fish disease before treatment. Letting chemicals and antibiotics into the wild is a big potential problem for all our futures. I have said too much about that!

 

[fish_collector]

The fastest way to lose $250k? Open a LFS! It is a brutal business to be in. The upfront cost of setting up a nice store is a quarter mil, sure you can do it for less but like everything, you get what you pay for and your customers will immediately know if you operate on a shoestring budget. You can't compete with the online retailers, the ease of buying online and having it delivered 2 days later is priceless, no one can argue with that. Very few will spend more to buy from you just to support you, it's every man for himself out there. Have you ever priced the shipping costs for a box of fish from Quality Marine? They don't ship them for free. And once you take delivery of the fish you own them, dead or alive. Those fish will sometimes want to eat while you are taking care of them, be prepared to buy frozen food by the case. You'd better do some arithmetic for your store systems and determine electrical usage and the associated costs. Have you checked out what a storefront lease in a desirable area costs? It's probably more than you think it is, especially a triple net lease where the tenants share taxes and maintenance costs. Are you prepared to cover the lease for 6 months before you can even open the front door to customers? Have you thought about what permits you will need? Have you thought about what Visa and other credit providers charge for a typical transaction? You WILL have to hire some help, a one man show won't work. You'll have to pay someone at least $20/hr to get reliable help. So with all that said, you gotta sell A LOT of fish, coral, rodi, salt water, etc to cover your nut BEFORE you will even see a cent from it. You may see up to 20% of your livestock die off before it sells, that's just the name of the game. And somewhere in between all of this you will have to sleep a little bit.

Running a LFS is often seen as a glamorous business with all of the cool fish and corals, but underneath it all it's got to be one of the most frustrating things you'll ever do. I've been a professional in my line of work for going on 38 years, I hate it but I make a lot of money. I've researched opening up a LFS and the numbers just don't add up, I just can't walk away from the paycheck I bring home. I know everyone has their own thing in life and not everyone opens up a business for the sole purpose to bring in the cash, but a new LFS is one of the worst businesses to open from scratch, it's highly likely you'll fail within 5 years and what you invested isn't worth a quarter on the dollar when you liquidate.

I'm glad I could brighten your day!;)

 

[OrionN]

I think the bread and butter of the LFS are the fishes, and animals that cannot, or not easily propagate at home aquarium. Even with high end SPS, the local market will not be available for long excepts in very large markets. In markets that require none to ~5 stores, the demands for these corals will be meet by reefers.
If you are able to sell reasonably price healthy fish, you likely will do well.
I would really love to have my LFS keep and sell a few expensive anemones. I do understand why they don't keep and sell Magnifica or Gigantea, but I think a LFS with reasonable show tank can easily keep and sell healthy Haddoni, Crispa, Malu, Doorensis, even if they keep a tied in holding tank specific for these species.

 

[420reefing]

I’m in Switzerland, maybe my view doesn’t apply for you.
What I love in my lfs is the contact with the owner and other clients and the possibility to watch amazing corals. I see it like a visit to a friendly place where I can stay for a while watching things and take a coffee. And of course buy things, even if it’s cheaper online, to support a place I love to go.

I hope to have regulars that come in to (as we say in the states) just shoot the ****.

 

[Pntbll687]

Find a reliable source for pulsing Xenia, green star polyp, and zoas

The LFS survive off of new hobbyists and you’ll need coral that they will be successful with

 

[OrionN]

Find a reliable source for pulsing Xenia, green star polyp, and zoas

The LFS survive off of new hobbyists and you’ll need coral that they will be successful with

I am not sure about this advice. These are so easy, that the market will be saturated in no time, unless you have a huge market like New Youk, LA or Houston.

 

[Harpo]

So where are you considering locating this store? I'm in Royal oak and there is a wide variety of LFS to choose from. Ultimately I shop at two that have a nice selection of coral. A few years back a new LFS went in about a mile down the street from an existing LFS. They didn't last long. How will you set your self apart from your competition? My LFS sells phytoplankton.