Opinions on this vendor response?

[skinz78]

I don’t think he mentioned reefchasers (unless I missed it). I know another member did in response to a different question but didn’t think Skinz had posted the vendor

No I haven't mentioned any vendor names. This vendor I'm working with is not a R2R sponsor.

I don’t understand how your problem is that the vendor told you they are working on in insurance policy, that very few like Pacific East have, since Covid shipping has changed drastically in terms of delays and yes I think vendors should evolve to insured packages or at least have the options but before purchasing if you don’t like their policy or etc don’t order from them and the vender is breaking his policy to credit you and yet your still upset

So you don't expect the corals you spend your hard earned money on to be insured during shipping?

I guess I should read vendors shipping policies from here on out. I just assumed that if a vendor wants to make it shipping live goods in this industry they would insure shipping and have a solid arrive alive guarantee. I shouldn't have to request insurance IMHO.

 

[brightlifeaquaculture]

I edited my post for vendor name as mistake. The point of the insurance is to cover losses and delays etc. I understand as more delays are occurring to get insurance. Not only is he refunded, just like the insurance would, he let you know they plan on being the vendor you want by getting insurance

 

[Chrisv.]

No I haven't mentioned any vendor names. This vendor I'm working with is not a R2R sponsor.

So you don't expect the corals you spend your hard earned money on to be insured during shipping?

I guess I should read vendors shipping policies from here on out. I just assumed that if a vendor wants to make it shipping live goods in this industry they would insure shipping and have a solid arrive alive guarantee. I shouldn't have to request insurance IMHO.

On the bright side, we now know that Pacific East Aquaculture DOES insure, and they don't even charge for it.

 

[PeterLL]

I have to ask, do shipping companies there not pay out if they fail to deliver on time?
For the limited corals I’ve sent in the UK, it normally comes with a guarantee, where if they do not deliver in time and it’s a perishable item, they will reimburse shipping as well as the cost of contents (up to a limit) meaning all the burden is left on the shipping company.
Is FedEx/UPS/USPS etc. really just “sorry we delivered it a week late and everything died sucks for you tho” ?

 

[Brittanyjo]

I've recently placed a good sized order from a new vendor that I haven't used before and I was supposed to receive it last Wednesday but it still hasn't arrived.

The other day I asked him where do we go from here as the corals will most likely be DOA, this was his response minus the company name:

"I am sorry for UPS's delay and understand your frustration. Please still follow our previous steps (regarding photos, etc) as we outlined previously.

Unfortunately, shipping delays are something that is completely out of our control as outlined in our Shipping / DOA Policy:


" we are not accountable for damages during shipping due to FedEx/UPS personnel, weather, or acts of god unless FedEx/UPS approves the claim and issues a credit. In the event of a loss or damaged package, it is the buyers responsibility to pursue a claim with FedEx/UPS."

It is part of the risk of ordering online. In previous times (pre-covid) there was much less delays however its hit or miss. UPS still has a pretty good track record. While we previously shipped via Fedex, which was less expensive, the delays were outrageous. We are in the final steps of outlining an optional insurance policy that customers will have the option to select for situations like this. However, since we have not formally posted the insurance option, I will still replace/credit your order assuming there are losses, again we just ask that you properly document.

I apologize for the inconvenience on behalf of UPS"


This response is fairly undesirable to me and may make it hard for me to order from this vendor again in the future. IMHO a vendor should honor the corals will arrive in good condition no matter the circumstances and if there is issues they should handle the issue on their end and it shouldn't be the customer's issue to deal with.

Am I wrong?

Joker Coral replaced my order almost immediately when there was a FedEx delay. They were wonderful.
There are so many good companies. I am going to pay attention to DOA policies more closely in the future, thanks for sharing.

 

[skinz78]

On the bright side, we now know that Pacific East Aquaculture DOES insure, and they don't even charge for it.

I've had good experiences with Pacific East over the years, if I had a shipping issue they addressed it promptly and to my satisfaction!

 

[fish farmer]

I have to ask, do shipping companies there not pay out if they fail to deliver on time?
For the limited corals I’ve sent in the UK, it normally comes with a guarantee, where if they do not deliver in time and it’s a perishable item, they will reimburse shipping as well as the cost of contents (up to a limit) meaning all the burden is left on the shipping company.
Is FedEx/UPS/USPS etc. really just “sorry we delivered it a week late and everything died sucks for you tho” ?

Pretty much that is what happens now. I think all shipping companies have waived any money back guarantees currently.

I find it interesting though with Fed Ex, stated specifically in their policies about shipping live stuff like ornamental fish, they don't allow shipping business to consumer, just business to business. So if your favorite coral company is using Fed Ex to ship to your private home....the business is violating Fed Ex policy. Page 3 of the terms and conditions states this policy.

https://www.fedex.com/content/dam/fedex/us-united-states/services/SG_TermsCond_US_2022.pdf

 

[Uncle99]

I've recently placed a good sized order from a new vendor that I haven't used before and I was supposed to receive it last Wednesday but it still hasn't arrived.

The other day I asked him where do we go from here as the corals will most likely be DOA, this was his response minus the company name:

"I am sorry for UPS's delay and understand your frustration. Please still follow our previous steps (regarding photos, etc) as we outlined previously.

Unfortunately, shipping delays are something that is completely out of our control as outlined in our Shipping / DOA Policy:


" we are not accountable for damages during shipping due to FedEx/UPS personnel, weather, or acts of god unless FedEx/UPS approves the claim and issues a credit. In the event of a loss or damaged package, it is the buyers responsibility to pursue a claim with FedEx/UPS."

It is part of the risk of ordering online. In previous times (pre-covid) there was much less delays however its hit or miss. UPS still has a pretty good track record. While we previously shipped via Fedex, which was less expensive, the delays were outrageous. We are in the final steps of outlining an optional insurance policy that customers will have the option to select for situations like this. However, since we have not formally posted the insurance option, I will still replace/credit your order assuming there are losses, again we just ask that you properly document.

I apologize for the inconvenience on behalf of UPS"


This response is fairly undesirable to me and may make it hard for me to order from this vendor again in the future. IMHO a vendor should honor the corals will arrive in good condition no matter the circumstances and if there is issues they should handle the issue on their end and it shouldn't be the customer's issue to deal with.

Am I wrong?

Just 4 the record, and as an example Fragbox Corals will replace any coral which does not thrive in your tank for at least 7 daysGuaranteed!

Great vendors look after there customers.

 

[Chrisv.]

Honestly it's been a second since I've bought coral online. Are the shipping companies refunding the cost of shipping of packages are late?

 

[snorklr]

there's no such thing as a free lunch...any insurance will be based upon a formula of how many losses there are , and increasing the cost of the product to everyone to cover these losses...businesses do not magically operate while losing money to give you free stuff...the current state of shipping is so bad you better be prepared for substantial price increases if you expect the vendor to be responsible for shipping problems that are out of his control

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

there's no such thing as a free lunch...any insurance will be based upon a formula of how many losses there are , and increasing the cost of the product to everyone to cover these losses...businesses do not magically operate while losing money to give you free stuff...the current state of shipping is so bad you better be prepared for substantial price increases if you expect the vendor to be responsible for shipping problems that are out of his control

We ship average approx 20-30 orders per day. At this moment in time we see about 2-3 orders a week that get delayed beyond a few hours past scheduled delivery, normally it's none. Those that get delayed a day generally have a few losses, occasionally a total loss, but this is very rare. Every package we ship gets 2 levels of insurance. The first covers for delays due to carrier error. The second covers losses due to weather or mechanical failure of the carrier. Both insurance cost a few dollars per package and do cover the cost of shipping and livestock. We do not directly pass on that cost to the customer in the form of an added fee, although it does get factored into our cost of goods, just like boxes, bags, rubber bands, water, etc. all get added into our actual cost of the product. The difficult thing for a livestock company to calculate is it's accurate cost of goods and this is the make or break factor for most in this type of business. The cost of goods is not just the cost of the animal, that actually is usually the least costly part of the equation. Shipping insurance is just one of many items that add to the cost of goods and part of the calculation of the final price of an item. Just like folks don't want to pay for the box, they don't want to pay extra for the insurance. However, all these costs are part of the final item price.

A vendor can decide to take a hard line and not cover losses due to carrier failure, and we did that many years ago. Or, a vendor can make the buying experience as smooth and worry-free as possible. It's a calculated decision for every vendor just as is the nuts and bolts of calculating true cost of goods.

 

[kiran]

I wouldn't buy from a vendor who responded to me this way.

I buy from big names like TSA and WWC and even I know some of their livestock might not make it to me alive, but at least I don't have to be "lectured" by the vendor when starting the return process provided I have proof of DOA or if they perished within a day or something. I haven't had any issues with their customer support yet.

I don't want to deal with a vendor who can't stand behind their livestock and will just go to blaming the delivery carriers and try to pass off the blame if something goes wrong or doesn't make it alive.

Just me personally. If you think that's a fine response then by all means support them.

 

[skinz78]

For the record the package was shipped 1/4/22 next day air and I still don't know a delivery date. I'm starting to think ups has lost the package.

 

[kiran]

I'm going to add a little bit more and it might be a bit controversial.

If you sell online and you can't insure or back your livestock, then I personally believe you have no business doing online transactions that require shipping. If you really want to start selling then do it locally through a facebook group or something where they can come by to inspect and pick it up themselves.

Money isn't free, and buying from a vendor like this is like gambling to me.

 

[Chrisv.]

We ship average approx 20-30 orders per day. At this moment in time we see about 2-3 orders a week that get delayed beyond a few hours past scheduled delivery, normally it's none. Those that get delayed a day generally have a few losses, occasionally a total loss, but this is very rare. Every package we ship gets 2 levels of insurance. The first covers for delays due to carrier error. The second covers losses due to weather or mechanical failure of the carrier. Both insurance cost a few dollars per package and do cover the cost of shipping and livestock. We do not directly pass on that cost to the customer in the form of an added fee, although it does get factored into our cost of goods, just like boxes, bags, rubber bands, water, etc. all get added into our actual cost of the product. The difficult thing for a livestock company to calculate is it's accurate cost of goods and this is the make or break factor for most in this type of business. The cost of goods is not just the cost of the animal, that actually is usually the least costly part of the equation. Shipping insurance is just one of many items that add to the cost of goods and part of the calculation of the final price of an item. Just like folks don't want to pay for the box, they don't want to pay extra for the insurance. However, all these costs are part of the final item price.

A vendor can decide to take a hard line and not cover losses due to carrier failure, and we did that many years ago. Or, a vendor can make the buying experience as smooth and worry-free as possible. It's a calculated decision for every vendor just as is the nuts and bolts of calculating true cost of goods.

...and THIS is why I will be buying from PEA in the future.

Never mind the fact that I have never seen another company EVER share their mortality statistics online.

 

[flagg37]

We ship average approx 20-30 orders per day. At this moment in time we see about 2-3 orders a week that get delayed beyond a few hours past scheduled delivery, normally it's none. Those that get delayed a day generally have a few losses, occasionally a total loss, but this is very rare. Every package we ship gets 2 levels of insurance. The first covers for delays due to carrier error. The second covers losses due to weather or mechanical failure of the carrier. Both insurance cost a few dollars per package and do cover the cost of shipping and livestock. We do not directly pass on that cost to the customer in the form of an added fee, although it does get factored into our cost of goods, just like boxes, bags, rubber bands, water, etc. all get added into our actual cost of the product. The difficult thing for a livestock company to calculate is it's accurate cost of goods and this is the make or break factor for most in this type of business. The cost of goods is not just the cost of the animal, that actually is usually the least costly part of the equation. Shipping insurance is just one of many items that add to the cost of goods and part of the calculation of the final price of an item. Just like folks don't want to pay for the box, they don't want to pay extra for the insurance. However, all these costs are part of the final item price.

A vendor can decide to take a hard line and not cover losses due to carrier failure, and we did that many years ago. Or, a vendor can make the buying experience as smooth and worry-free as possible. It's a calculated decision for every vendor just as is the nuts and bolts of calculating true cost of goods.

I love this. It really shows a level of experience in doing business. I chose the same line of thinking with my business (not to toot my own horn). There are other Businesses out there that try to compete for the lowest price and don’t include “extras” but instead have the customer pay for it separately. My approach (like yours) is to make things as easy as posts for my customers but in doing this the price is naturally higher. I’ve found that it becomes less of a headache for everyone if I just take care of it. I’m not nickel and dimming them for the extras and they like that I take care of things so they don’t have to.

There is no right or wrong way of doing it though. The vendor the OP is talking about made his policies known. If he was doing something contrary to what his policy stated then there would be an issue.

Maybe it’s just me but I always check the policies of the vendor because they vary so widely.

 

[Paston1]

Personally I don’t like.

Granted import is how I do it. So pick up is at the airport. Chance of delay isn’t there.

if no insurance why pay the added cost of the dealer?

.02

 

[Paston1]

You mean, in a situation where the vendor clearly states their policy, they should instead pay half of the losses? I can understand if you wish that to be the policy to begin with but that’s not this situation.

Yes I think they should pay or replace. What they sold the frag for was their import cost for the colony. most don’t see these numbers. Just assume they are making 100% off you when selling something