Options for Combating a Dino Outbreak

[CHSUB]

Same for me. My acro and SPS are growing like crazy with great color and PE and my nitrates are around 50 and phosphates around 0.15.

Different for me…my tanks are always zero nitrates on Salifert going back to the 90’s as it very easy to keep nitrates low with maintenance and a moderate fish load. In all those tank I’ve never had a dinoflagellate problem. Recently I purchased a microscopic and found a few dinos as
expected.


Referring to corals and hobby tested zero nitrate:

 

[JonasRoman]

I tried Blackout. And I have a UV that I am running. After the blackout, the sand was clean. And then they came back. The sand does still mostly clear at night so I assume they are in the water column. But that didn't work.

Specify the UV, age of UV, wattage, circulation/h of UV pump, tank size and that your UV-pump was in display tank (as a temporary)
All these must be done correct.

 

[docscorals]

Same for me. My acro and SPS are growing like crazy with great color and PE and my nitrates are around 50 and phosphates around 0.15.

Different for me…my tanks are always zero nitrates on Salifert going back to the 90’s as it very easy to keep nitrates low with maintenance and a moderate fish load. In all those tank I’ve never had a dinoflagellate problem. Recently I purchased a microscopic and found a few dinos as
expected.


Referring to corals and hobby tested zero nitrate:

Awesome. And they look great. Mine never had great color or PE until my numbers started creeping up. I have found that trying to keep my nitrates between 25-50 and phosphates between 0.10-0.15 seems to be perfect for my tanks. Although I really don’t react much unless my nitrates get below 10 or over 50 and my phosphates are below 0.05 or over 0.25.

There are so many factors and every rank is different. That’s why they say chase consistency, not numbers .

 

[Patrick Cox]

Specify the UV, age of UV, wattage, circulation/h of UV pump, tank size and that your UV-pump was in display tank (as a temporary)
All these must be done correct.

I have a microscope but I am unable to take a picture. from the slide it looks like Prorocentrum to me. Like small pointed eggs. (like the small pointed dots in the picture above.)

UV is 25 watt Aqua Ultraviolet...

Bulb is about a year old.
Tank is 140-150 gallon total water volume
pump is in the sump
I did have it dialed up and now it is dialed down.


https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/25-w...D=9973&indexName=brs_prod_m2_default_products

 

[JWsticks]

I appreciate all of the replies and discussion on this topic. As someone said above, there are obviously different ways to be successful in this hobby. I have been in the saltwater hobby for 15 years and I still feel like a newbie. Or maybe I know just enough to be dangerous. LOL. It likely makes sense for me to choose the approach where I can get some in person support from someone who knows a lot more than I do.

@Randy Holmes-Farley ,
I asked AI about the Polyp Labs Media I just removed from my system and here is what it had to say...

"That Polyplab Genesis Rock Power Rack is an enormous amount of biological surface area. BRS says each of the four Genesis Rocks provides over 1,000 m² / 11,000 ft² of surface area, and the rack is specifically designed to move water through that media.

For your roughly 140–150-gallon system, that's substantial additional biological capacity. BRS even states that each block can support around 350 gallons, although I'd treat that as a manufacturer sizing claim rather than a literal filtration requirement. "

It sounds like I may have been over processing dissolved nutrients. And maybe that condition brought on the Dinos. It will be interesting to see how that changes over the next few days. I will report back on this point.

Thanks!

I've just recovered from a minor dino outbreak. I reintroduced bleached Marco rock and my PO4 crashed to 0. I also run a well lit refugium to export PO4 by dosing NO3 weekly which made it worse. Noticed the snots a week after rocks were in the tank and quickly dosed PO4. A week of dosing PO4 and dinos were gone. Probably fast for my case due to being barebottom and high flow. Also, I kept the refugium and skimmer running normally. NO3 and PO4 can always be dosed to desired levels.

Are you also carbon dosing with the biomedia? How are you driving PO4 lower? Are you dosing anything else to lower PO4 specifically?

For your case, I would dose PO4 to 0.10 and check the following day how much PO4 was consumed. Then dose PO4 to maintain 0.10 on a daily basis. Check daily and eventually your tank will stop consuming and will see a large excess build up and dino should've receded. Keep a log and you will see a trend develop.

 

[Patrick Cox]

I've just recovered from a minor dino outbreak. I reintroduced bleached Marco rock and my PO4 crashed to 0. I also run a well lit refugium to export PO4 by dosing NO3 weekly which made it worse. Noticed the snots a week after rocks were in the tank and quickly dosed PO4. A week of dosing PO4 and dinos were gone. Probably fast for my case due to being barebottom and high flow. Also, I kept the refugium and skimmer running normally. NO3 and PO4 can always be dosed to desired levels.

Are you also carbon dosing with the biomedia? How are you driving PO4 lower? Are you dosing anything else to lower PO4 specifically?

For your case, I would dose PO4 to 0.10 and check the following day how much PO4 was consumed. Then dose PO4 to maintain 0.10 on a daily basis. Check daily and eventually your tank will stop consuming and will see a large excess build up and dino should've receded. Keep a log and you will see a trend develop.

Thanks for sharing your experience. My current guess is that the Polyp Lab Genesis Rock Rack that I installed has been consuming all of my nutrients. My tank is ~145 gallon total water volume and this kit is advertised to "support systems up to 1400 gallons" of water volume. I removed that this morning so we will see what happens over the next few days! LOL. Thanks.

 

[CHSUB]

A week of dosing PO4 and dinos were gone

So the po4 dosing killed the dinos?

 

[mcarroll]

I am not sure how this happened but I have been battling a Dino outbreak for several months. I am currently trying Silicate dosing and even though I see a lot of Diatoms in the sand, rock and glass, the microscope still shows a lot of Dinos in the samples I have taken from the sand...

I don't have any corals right now. I have lost the few that I had. Also, the tank is about 3 years old.

So, I was thinking about this step...

Removing most of my sand and replacing it with some Live sand from Tampa bay Saltwater. Any thoughts on if that would likely help me get rid of the Dino outbreak?

Thanks.

Tank is 5'x2'x22". ~150G total water volume. I have a good skimmer, roller mat, Algae scrubber and UV. My guess is I ran the UV too much and that created an environment for the Dinos to grow. it also started when I added a few pieces of Dry rock to my established aquarium.

This is not a typical toxic dino bloom, but reading about them might give you some ideas and at least some perspective....the first post is all you NEED to read, but reading some of the cases in the other thread posts might also be interesting (there's 12,000+ of them tho....no need to read them all!!):
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/

You might also consider posting there and/or having your thread moved to that subforum:

Nuisance Algae (including bacteria)​

Thanks Randy. What would be the order of priority for removing the Bio Media vs the Algae Scrubber? I am assuming I don't want to remove all but maybe. Thanks.

If things are suffering due to the ultra-competition for nutrients, then I'd decommission all of the extras you added. There should be no downside. (The downside would be allowing things to continue as-is.)

Thanks for the replies. I am a little confused / unsure about something...

I local guy I know who maintains tanks and has for 30+ years stopped by and looked the tank over and he said my tank is too dirty and it needs a deep cleaning. He did a 25 gallon water change and cleaned the sand bed pretty heavily. He said there is way too much fish and food waste built up in the sand bed and in the rocks. He also said I need better flow through the rocks and the tanks. He thinks this is the cause of my issues. It is true that I have not been cleaning my sand bed. I don't really do a lot of water changes but for a while I did do ~ 10% auto water change per week. Tank is ~ 3 years old.

So, can it be true that my water tests show very low nutrients but the tank is still dirty and needs to be cleaned better?

I would consider this guy to be "old school".

Thanks!

I think he's probably correct on all counts. For certain on the cleaning up the tank part.

Using a small powerhead to blast the rocks and sand is one way. Siphon cleaning the sand is another.

If you have been broadcast feeding, stop.

When you feed the fish make sure you only put as much in the tank as they can consume in a given time.....don't put so much that it can drift down to the sand or into the rocks without being eaten. Do everything you reasonably can to NOT waste food in the tank.

It's hardly ever true that a tank has "enough" flow.....an improvement is almost always possible.

How does that explain tanks that have 3" of detritus in the sump and grow SPS like crazy? The older the tank the higher the nutrients usually. The older the tank the less algae there is.

This can be true, but it is definitely not necessarily true....plenty of tanks with a lot of detritus that have problems. And old tanks have their problems as well...."Old Tank Syndrom" is the catch-all term for many of them.

Not sure your question, however it is established science what causes dinoflagellates blooms and “Red Tides”.

More of an ongoing concern than established if you ask Google Scholar.

The only generic term to characterize the causes is "disturbance". Disturbances cause HAB's. (Harmful Algae Blooms)

What kind of disturbance matters depends on which dino (or other algae; cyano and others are also capable) we're talking about. There's still VERY active research in this area tho....not that much feels really settled to me.

I have a microscope but I am unable to take a picture.

You can lay your phone-camera's lens on the eyepiece and get good photos. This even worked on the toy scope I started out with. Takes a little finesse, but it's doable.

UV is 25 watt Aqua Ultraviolet...

Make sure flow is correct for their rating vs parasites. (Double check on their website.)
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...-b1ec-465e-b087-6fbe63031952.pdf?v=1741196543

Looks like you should measure about 400 GPH coming out of the UV......check it with an actual measurement of water flow if possible. E.g. catch return flow in a cup or bucket and time how long it takes to fill it up. Do the math to arrive at gallons per hour.

Bulb is about a year old.

This is more or less expired. Carefully check that the quartz tube is more or less clean while you're changing the bulb.