Philips CoralCare LED - Let the Testing Begin!

[wkd4b11]

Disappointed to hear that there is a separate controller/wifi dongle :(

I think this is actually good news for people who use multiple lights.
Theoretically it should be easier to connect and communicate with 1 unit rather than multiple since the lights are physically all plugged into the wifi controller.

 

[alimac122]

@Dana Riddle

I know youre compiling all of the data now.
But did you happen to do PAR testing with the frosted glass on AND off?
Also do the lights have lens filters on them themselves?
Can we as DIYer do any physical moving of the certain nm LEDS?

 

[AbjectMaelstroM]

@Dana Riddle

I know youre compiling all of the data now.
But did you happen to do PAR testing with the frosted glass on AND off?
Also do the lights have lens filters on them themselves?
Can we as DIYer do any physical moving of the certain nm LEDS?

I'm not sure about the other stuff, but as far as moving of LEDs, they seem to be Phillips Luxeon C package (except for UV which is a U1) so I suppose you could desolder individual LEDs and replace them.

That being said, being physically able to do so vs it being worthwhile venture is another. You would need a reflow oven or a hot plate that would fit the entirety of the array/pick whatever they're mounted to; on top of voiding any and all warranty.

Ill be honest, If you're buying these only to crack them open and start replacing LEDs, I could think of a couple more fixtures you could buy for much less than $800-900, or build your own fixture.

 

[alimac122]

I'm not sure about the other stuff, but as far as moving of LEDs, they seem to be Phillips Luxeon C package (except for UV which is a U1) so I suppose you could desolder individual LEDs and replace them.

That being said, being physically able to do so vs it being worthwhile venture is another. You would need a reflow oven or a hot plate that would fit the entirety of the array/pick whatever they're mounted to; on top of voiding any and all warranty.

Ill be honest, If you're buying these only to crack them open and start replacing LEDs, I could think of a couple more fixtures you could buy for much less than $800-900, or build your own fixture.

I was looking at a thread yesterday that has a Viparspectrum DIY with adding in more blue nm range. I obviously would agree with your statement that cracking into a $800-900 light is silly. I just also think that a light at that price range should not contain SO MUCH green... especially advertising that it is specifically designed for optimum coral health.

 

[oreo54]

that a light at that price range should not contain SO MUCH green... especially advertising that it is specifically designed for optimum coral health.

Why?
Blue and green are the deepest penetrating light spectrums in the ocean..

Besides even if healthy, doesn't help to see them w/out full color to a degree.
Besides life is a compromise..
Last gen but don't think goals have changed.

 

[AbjectMaelstroM]

I was looking at a thread yesterday that has a Viparspectrum DIY with adding in more blue nm range. I obviously would agree with your statement that cracking into a $800-900 light is silly. I just also think that a light at that price range should not contain SO MUCH green... especially advertising that it is specifically designed for optimum coral health.

Looking at full blast spectrum of these lights, I wouldn't exactly call this "SO MUCH Green)":

Not really sure what you're basing your statement on.

 

[Dana Riddle]

@Dana Riddle

I know youre compiling all of the data now.
But did you happen to do PAR testing with the frosted glass on AND off?
Also do the lights have lens filters on them themselves?
Can we as DIYer do any physical moving of the certain nm LEDS?

No, the luminaire is not mine (it is on loan) hence I do not have liberties with it. Removing the glass would almost certainly negate the IP65 rating as well. I regret that I can't answer your other questions.

 

[alimac122]

Why?
Blue and green are the deepest penetrating light spectrums in the ocean..

Besides even if healthy, doesn't help to see them w/out full color to a degree.
Besides life is a compromise..
Last gen but don't think goals have changed.

Violet to blue are most penetrating.
Green-yellow-red although beneficial for corals tend to be most beneficial to algal growth.

With the research and knowledge that I as a 'youngster' have {studying aquatic ecosystems in college and being a marine biologist} for maintaining a beautiful reef tank and ensuring minimal algal growth you want more violet to blue (370-520) almost zero green-yellow (the most favorable for algae) and some red in the 620 ish range.

However, I am only about 10 years deep into this field, and not consecutively. So some reefers on here that have had tanks 20+ years could have way better logic and opinion than me.

 

[alton]

Dana you better hurry, some are getting restless? I would like to see how they compare to the Phoenix 14K and Radium Metal Halide Lamp?

 

[Dana Riddle]

Dana you better hurry, some are getting restless? I would like to see how they compare to the Phoenix 14K and Radium Metal Halide Lamp?

I am erring on the side of caution here. There is a lot of information on the internet about the European CoralCare versions. I have requested that Philips review my analyses just to make sure it is accurate. This is not an invitation for them to request changes to things that are factually correct but instead to make sure I didn't make mistakes. It is always my intent to present accurate information and developers in Europe are in the process of responding. So far, the responses are minor in nature (such as spectral peaks don't match in writing to that in a chart - my fault).

 

[oreo54]

Violet to blue are most penetrating.
Green-yellow-red although beneficial for corals tend to be most beneficial to algal growth.

With the research and knowledge that I as a 'youngster' have {studying aquatic ecosystems in college and being a marine biologist} for maintaining a beautiful reef tank and ensuring minimal algal growth you want more violet to blue (370-520) almost zero green-yellow (the most favorable for algae) and some red in the 620 ish range.

However, I am only about 10 years deep into this field, and not consecutively. So some reefers on here that have had tanks 20+ years could have way better logic and opinion than me.

One of the most successful bulbs out there..
lots of green.. ;)

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ra-for-photosynthetic-pigments_fig5_311561454
Red algae excepted..(phycoerythrin)

Ulva and Monostroma (green algae) show action spectra which correspond very closely to their absorption spectra. ... In red algae containing chiefly phycoerythrin, the action spectrum closely resembles that of the water-extracted pigment, with peaks corresponding to its absorption maxima (495, 540, and 565 mµ).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2147193/

 

[alimac122]

One of the most successful bulbs out there..
lots of green.. ;)

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...ra-for-photosynthetic-pigments_fig5_311561454
Red algae excepted..(phycoerythrin)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2147193/

"Although the chlorophylls (and carotenoids) are present in quantities comparable to the green algae, their function is apparently not that of a primary light absorber; this role is taken over by the phycobilins. "

SEEEEEEEE.

Thank you for expanding my knowledge :)

From reading the article my wavelengths were off by a few nm, but still getting the general spike of violet/blue, low green/yellow and secondary red spike

 

[BullyBee]

I think the reason with the fascination on price is because what good is it if no one could afford it.

I would imagine this light is big with the sps crowd.

 

[oreo54]

SEEEEEEEE.

Thank you for expanding my knowledge :)

You might like this:
Pretty decent synopses though 2014 so "old"..
Covers a lot of bases..

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4141621/

In fw or sw never found anything definitive that one can "control algae with spectrum".
Doesn't mean it isn't possible, but not where I'd put my odds ..
Maybe red algae since their pigments are quite different and decreasing green spectrum puts them at a slight disadvantage..

A bit more asst. organisms.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure...tic-organisms-in-color-and-the_fig3_263207114

(a) Prochlorococcus, which lives at a depth of 120 m in the subtropical Pacific Ocean absorbs the available blue light using divinyl-chlorophyll a and b. (b) Synechococcus living at 12 m depth in the Baltic Sea absorbs the available green light using phycoerythrin. (c) Green cyanobacteria living at 75 cm depth in Lake Groote Moost in The Netherlands absorb the available red light using phycocyanin (peak at 635 nm) and Chl a (peak at 680 nm).

Need to specify depth..;)
https://arthropoda.wordpress.com/2010/04/01/mantis-shrimp-glow-in-the-dark/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982217302816

 

[oreo54]

Simple answer..

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...r-oceanic-waters-compared-with_fig1_331642361

 

[alimac122]

Simple answer..

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...r-oceanic-waters-compared-with_fig1_331642361

Okay killer. You’re gonna have me up all night reading now!

 

[Butcher333]

Freshwater planted tanks don’t use primarily blue light to prevent algae, and the evidence of growth and health in a reef using 6500k bulbs exists. I don’t have a degree in the biology of coral but am knowledgeable to a degree about plants and spectrum and “no” not those plants. The trend seems to be for people who gain some knowledge or look at some graphs, to think they know better than nature. I don’t think you can outsmart it with something unnatural.
With spectrum the chemistry of a plant can be manipulated, which is botany. The plant interprets the spectrum and to a degree can tolerate a horrible spectrum, but at some point a plant can be seen to struggle.
it’s like when someone says that plants are green because they reflect green light and don’t use green light. This is not true and in fact green light penetrates deeper into a canopy which plants have evolved to use.
They think they outsmarted nature by providing light without UV and were wrong again. The plant may utilize this part of the spectrum for flavonoids and other compounds like basil does. The protective shield the plant produces serves as more than just protection from the UV. Because it has evolved to best utilize what nature has provided for billions of years. So now physiological problems can occur outside of photosynthesis. Another example would be to say that red light causes photoinhibition in a type of coral therefore red light is bad. If the coral uses red light to interpret intensity and has evolved to know from that, that the rest of the spectrum is known. You could be reducing the corals ability to efficiently utilize the light, or even damage the coral because it was not able to inhibit the light entering it because it’s signal that a strong light source was present was missing.
as far as algae goes, it is present in every tank and if somehow magically was missing from mine, I’d toss a chunk in. It becomes an issue when something is off. It’s food.
I’m waiting to see the results from Dana about the new Coral Care. Just because I like lights and been wanting one of these.

 

[Timmtom49]

Can you stupid this down for me is the light worth it or not lol

 

[Kyl]

I’m waiting to see the results from Dana about the new Coral Care. Just because I like lights and been wanting one of these.

Same club. I want to see how this ends up, as none of the "downsides" being cited (aesthetic, weight) are of any concern to my application. My concern boils down to is the NA/110/120 unit much changed from the EU units, what is the NA mark-up going to end up as and can this replicate T5's with sufficient shimmer. Heavy actinic users aren't going to be the target of this release, and as any T5 user knows, you can always add something like reefbrites to juice things up.

I have seen pretty much most of the push during the last few weeks go completely silent recently, I am hoping this doesn't turn out to be one step forward, two steps back.

 

[User1]

I have requested that Philips review my analyses just to make sure it is accurate. This is not an invitation for them to request changes to things that are factually correct but instead to make sure I didn't make mistakes.

You sir, just won the internet. I personally do not know you but what I have read from your posts I always knew you are a stand up lad who tries their best to be unbiased. This here is what sets you apart from the rest. It would go a long ways if those in social media as hobbyists took note of your ethics and practice. Heck, even those in other fields.

Just wanted to say that. It really stood out to me the reply. Hope all is well and have a great weekend.