phosphate questions

[Dan_P]

I have not...The only information I have ever seen is the article by Rich Ross & Dr Chris Maupin where they provided 3 individual samples of Certified Sea Water and had them tested and they did an accuracy and precision analysis on the results...Being as how this certified sample was most likely sterile it does not account for any Bio-activity that a tank water would have...none the less it is a data point.

Here is the link

Skeptical Reefkeeping 12: Triton Lab ICP-OES Testing of a Certified Artificial Saltwater Standard

From ReefsMagazine By Rich Ross and Dr. Chris Maupin At MACNA 25 in Denver, the potential for the new ICP-OES aquarium water testing by Triton Lab in Germany made many saltwater hobbyists swoon. Th…

packedhead.net

Thanks Rick! Funny the business never thought it a good idea of presenting this type of information themselves.

While one triplicate test is somewhat comforting, it provides no information about how likely a sample will be correctly measured in the future. I suspect these vendors could learn a thing about quality from you.

 

[Lasse]

@Lasse and @Rick Mathew, have either of you seen any validation reports on Triton’s analytical methods that verifies that they can produce accurate and precise measurements? Or are we trusting them?

There was validation reports on their website and also detection limits before. I could not find them for the moment @Julian@Triton maybe can help out with this. Yes - I trust the results I get from them but with all tests that is a snapshot of the real truth you need to take the result from each individual test with some pinch of salt. IMO - It is only when you have a series of values over time that you have compared with your visual observations of your aquarium that the true strength of the test method emerges. One example - in October - November last year my corals was clearly downhill. All my experience was screaming - some kind of nutritional deficiency. But my Hanna tell me 0.07 - 0.12. The Triton show 0.018 ppm. None of the other parameters was higher (or lower) compared with how it looks like when it was a healthy aquarium. I stop with GFO and dose PO4. The things turn upwards again and the next test show 0.12 on my Hanna and 0.036 on Triton. Now I read between 0.15 and 0.2 on Hanna. When I´m home again - I will send in a new test to Triton

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Dan_P]

There was validation reports on their website and also detection limits before. I could not find them for the moment @Julian@Triton maybe can help out with this. Yes - I trust the results I get from them but with all tests that is a snapshot of the real truth you need to take the result from each individual test with some pinch of salt. IMO - It is only when you have a series of values over time that you have compared with your visual observations of your aquarium that the true strength of the test method emerges. One example - in October - November last year my corals was clearly downhill. All my experience was screaming - some kind of nutritional deficiency. But my Hanna tell me 0.07 - 0.12. The Triton show 0.018 ppm. None of the other parameters was higher (or lower) compared with how it looks like when it was a healthy aquarium. I stop with GFO and dose PO4. The things turn upwards again and the next test show 0.12 on my Hanna and 0.036 on Triton. Now I read between 0.15 and 0.2 on Hanna. When I´m home again - I will send in a new test to Triton

Sincerely Lasse

Thanks @Lasse

 

[Rick Mathew]

Thanks Rick! Funny the business never thought it a good idea of presenting this type of information themselves.

While one triplicate test is somewhat comforting, it provides no information about how likely a sample will be correctly measured in the future. I suspect these vendors could learn a thing about quality from you.

Actually Rich mentioned this very point in the article I believe. The Certified sample is quite expensive so he may have only had enough to do the first set of tests.... 100mL cost $217... 500 mL cost $480...But you are correct the test would need to be repeated as least 2 more times separated by some length of time to get a real feel for the accuracy and precision of the tests...I a presentation at one of the shows I asked one of the vendors this very question "Do you have a precision statement for each of the elements tested"...The answer I got was they re-calibrate after every 6-7 tests with the Certified Sea water but that does not answer the question...So I took it they do not have such a precision statement....could be wrong but my guess is they do not...I am continuing to explore this question as I can.

 

[Copingwithpods]

As some one who just recently started a reef tank and just lately started worrying about NO3 + PO4, reading through this again (the first time I wasn't sure anyone was speaking English) I feel like a 3 year old who snuck into a quantum entanglement argument between Steven Hawking and Albert Einstein. All this flew so far over my head it is currently looking down on the international space station. The only conclusion I can surmise is I know nothing, I didn't even know what I didn't know, I will never get it right and I might as well take my tank down now buy a goldfish, get a dog, get married, have kids and pretend this whole reefing thing was a bad dream. Thank you all for the insight, you can find me in the sellers forum.

Goodnight (it's 1:34 pm)

 

[Lasse]

As some one who just recently started a reef tank and just lately started worrying about NO3 + PO4

Exactly - start worrying about NO3 and PO4. This last discussion is just about that - can we relay on our hobby test in order to manage a system if concentrations around 0.04 is a demand for a good reef? What I try to say is that trying to accomplish a 0.04 ppm value - based on the tools we as hobbyist have - can be more dangerous than let it be around 0.1 ppm. IMO - use of tools that let our eye compare colours or even use of the Hanna Checkers is like doing needlework with a 10 mm drill bit for me.

Sincerely Lasse