OP
OP
Coral Keeper
Reef Keeper
Is there a product out there that will neutralize/bind to ammonia so that it is not toxic to the fish? Kind of like the de-chlorinator for chlorine?
PLEASE HELP ASAP!! VELVET INFECTED FISH
- Thread starter Coral Keeper
- Start date
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Copper plus prime is a dangerous route.
The chemical processes will kill your fish. Not sure if they are still running the deal but seneye was offering a 10% discount for their monitors to couple with the bacteria study on here.
If able to bump up your holding tank capacity for rodi should help keep water changes on a schedule based on actual ammonia production. Copper will interfere with the reading according to seneye, but if the interference is constant*. Should give actionable readings.
*conjecture
The chemical processes will kill your fish. Not sure if they are still running the deal but seneye was offering a 10% discount for their monitors to couple with the bacteria study on here.
If able to bump up your holding tank capacity for rodi should help keep water changes on a schedule based on actual ammonia production. Copper will interfere with the reading according to seneye, but if the interference is constant*. Should give actionable readings.
*conjecture
HotRocks
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Just predose the QT to 1.0ppm.
Place them into it as long as temp and salinity match the DT.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ratios-for-dosing-copper-power.385871/
Can't use prime with copper. It will become toxic. So just watch your badge and have a WC mixed and preheated. The only trick is when doing a WC the copper needs to be predosed.
Place them into it as long as temp and salinity match the DT.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ratios-for-dosing-copper-power.385871/
Can't use prime with copper. It will become toxic. So just watch your badge and have a WC mixed and preheated. The only trick is when doing a WC the copper needs to be predosed.
miyags
Valuable Member
They do make a binder, but you can't use it with copper treatment.For some reason it turns the copper toxic.You will be able to use Prime after copper treatment is finished and copper is removed. Copper can be removed with activated charcoal/poly filters and water changes.Prime will help while your waiting on the DT fallow period.
I know that everyone has their favorite bacteria in a bottle but I have used probidio on numerous occasions with amazing results.
sponge filters on Amazon..even if you don't connect them to an air pump provide lots of surface area for the bacteria.
Good luck, I hope everyone makes it! On the plus side, when this is all over you will have everything you need to QT new fish.
stay strong!
sponge filters on Amazon..even if you don't connect them to an air pump provide lots of surface area for the bacteria.
Good luck, I hope everyone makes it! On the plus side, when this is all over you will have everything you need to QT new fish.
stay strong!
OP
OP
Coral Keeper
Reef Keeper
Hey everyone, sorry for the delayed update. I was able to get everything up and running yesterday in the evening. So, I decided to go with one 55 gallon QT because two QT would be too difficult for me to manage and would spread my resources far too thin when I could just focus on one tank and pool all of my equipment and resources into one aquarium and manage it even better. Here is a list of equipment that I purchased yesterday for the QT.
Equipment/Supplies:
1 x 55 gallon glass aquarium
2 x 32 gallon Brute Barrels
1 x box of Instant Ocean saltmix(200 gal)
1 x Maxijet
4 x Fluval 500g Biomax
3 x 8 FL. OZ. Nite-Out II Nitrifying Bacteria
1 x 8.5 FL. OZ. Seachem Stability
2 x Bacto-Surge Sponge Filter Kit rated at 125 gallons each
2 x Million Air Pump 400
1 x Large course sponge filter block (more surface area for bacteria to grow on)
2 x Thermometers
2 x Ammonia Alert Badge (two just in case to compare)
1 x pH Alert Badge
1 x API Copper Test Kit (none of my local fish stores had the Hanna Copper tester, they should get it this weekend hopefully)
1 x Ammonia Test Kit
1 x Nitrite Test Kit
1 x Nitrate Test Kit
1 x 125 watt Eheim Jager Heater
20 x various sized PVC pipes and fittings ranging from 3/4" - 2" for the fish to hide in
2 x 5 gallon Homedepot buckets
1 x 10 inch fish net
1 x 12 inch fish net
25 feet of air hose tubing and other various tube connectors
a few different airstones just in case
2 x fully cured and live Marinepure Ceramic Biomedia 2 inch cubes
5 lb of fully cured liverock from Your Reef
(then added another 5 lb live rock from my DT)
Medications:
Copper Power
Acriflavine-MS (for the 75-90 minute bath)
Furan-2
MetroPlex
KanaPlex
Focus
Prazipro
List of fish in QT:
Female Spotbreast Angelfish (Genicanthus melanospilos)
Flame Angelfish
Yellow Tang
L Powder Blue Tang
XXL Male Dusky Wrasse (Halichoeres annularis)
Female Leopard Wrasse (Macropharyngodon meleagris)
Male Blue Star Leopard Wrasse (Macropharyngodon bipartitus)
Mandarine Fish
Neon Goby
5 x Carberryi Anthias (Nemanthias carberryi)
4 x Clownfish
2 x Firefish, Purple (Nemateleotris decora)
So, yesterday, after visiting 5 reef shops I was able to finally get all of my supplies since each store didn't have everything I was looking for or enough of what I needed.. I'm so blessed to have a wife that is passionate about reef keeping as I am, if it wasnt for her, I don't think I would be able to set everything up in time. So, my wife and I set up the 55 gallon emergency QT using 55 gallons of saltwater from my DT, added 10 lb of live rock, 4lb from Jhon at Your Reef and 6lb from my DT that didn't have any corals on it and 2 x fully cured and live Marinepure Ceramic Biomedia 2 inch cubes. I then proceeded to add all the PVC pipes, sponges and bubble sponge filters, heater, powerhead, etc, etc. The one thing that I did was soak a box of Fluval 500g Biomax in 8 FL. OZ. Nite-Out II Nitrifying Bacteria and another box of Fluval 500g Biomax in 8.5 FL. OZ. Seachem Stability for a few hours so that the media became live instantly and was able to penetrate deep into the media shielding it from the copper so it doesn't get zapped. I then got my filter sock from my DT, washed the freaking crap out of it in the DT tank (DT tank was filthy filthy after) because i didn't want all the crap/poop to go into the QT and add ammonia, just the bacteria embedded in the filter sock. I then cut the sides and corners to make one large sheet of live filter sock.
After everything was setup, we tore down our 120 gallon reef tank to catch all of those lil suckers which was a huge PITA!! Once everyone was caught, we divided half the fish in one bucket and the other half into the other bucket with air stones in each bucket to make sure all of the fish were getting enough oxygen. The fish were then given a 5 minute freshwater dip in RO/DI water where they were then placed in a saltwater Acriflavine-MS bath with air stones running for 90 minutes. All of the fish looked like they were doing very well in the Acriflavine-MS bath, did not notice any unusual behavior, there were all out and about swimming normally.. Once the 90 minute bath was up, they were then placed in the QT and I let them chill/de-stress for about an hour n half or so. Then over the course of an hour, I slowly raised the copper level to 1.00ppm (5.4 mL of copper power every 10 minutes for one hour). I dosed the last dose of copper at midnight yesterday to achieve the 1.00ppm.
The following day (Today 10/04/2018) I woke up to the first loss, a female Carberryi Anthia. She wasn't doing so well to begin with, a few days ago in the DT she got beatup by someone and was not in good condition when i started to FW dip her/giving the bath/copper treatment, so I think everything alltogether tipped her over the edge.. My wife having a few days off, She dosed the copper by 0.5mL every 30 minutes starting at 7am while I was at work. So over the course of 16 hours, 11pm pacific time will be the last dose that will raise the copper level of the QT to 1.50ppm. I feel like this is a very good method so am planning on continuing this method (unless you guys think otherwise?) so that the copper is raised VERY VERY slowly for the sensitive fish/so the bacteria dont die in large masses all at once due to large doses all at once.
So far everyone else is going well, do other deaths, fish are not freaking out, they actually look hungry and swim up to the tank for food and are picking on the live rock.. i havent fed them or plan on feeding them for a few days to try to reduce the ammonia from building up since there are so many fish and the QT isnt established.
Equipment/Supplies:
1 x 55 gallon glass aquarium
2 x 32 gallon Brute Barrels
1 x box of Instant Ocean saltmix(200 gal)
1 x Maxijet
4 x Fluval 500g Biomax
3 x 8 FL. OZ. Nite-Out II Nitrifying Bacteria
1 x 8.5 FL. OZ. Seachem Stability
2 x Bacto-Surge Sponge Filter Kit rated at 125 gallons each
2 x Million Air Pump 400
1 x Large course sponge filter block (more surface area for bacteria to grow on)
2 x Thermometers
2 x Ammonia Alert Badge (two just in case to compare)
1 x pH Alert Badge
1 x API Copper Test Kit (none of my local fish stores had the Hanna Copper tester, they should get it this weekend hopefully)
1 x Ammonia Test Kit
1 x Nitrite Test Kit
1 x Nitrate Test Kit
1 x 125 watt Eheim Jager Heater
20 x various sized PVC pipes and fittings ranging from 3/4" - 2" for the fish to hide in
2 x 5 gallon Homedepot buckets
1 x 10 inch fish net
1 x 12 inch fish net
25 feet of air hose tubing and other various tube connectors
a few different airstones just in case
2 x fully cured and live Marinepure Ceramic Biomedia 2 inch cubes
5 lb of fully cured liverock from Your Reef
(then added another 5 lb live rock from my DT)
Medications:
Copper Power
Acriflavine-MS (for the 75-90 minute bath)
Furan-2
MetroPlex
KanaPlex
Focus
Prazipro
List of fish in QT:
Female Spotbreast Angelfish (Genicanthus melanospilos)
Flame Angelfish
Yellow Tang
L Powder Blue Tang
XXL Male Dusky Wrasse (Halichoeres annularis)
Female Leopard Wrasse (Macropharyngodon meleagris)
Male Blue Star Leopard Wrasse (Macropharyngodon bipartitus)
Mandarine Fish
Neon Goby
5 x Carberryi Anthias (Nemanthias carberryi)
4 x Clownfish
2 x Firefish, Purple (Nemateleotris decora)
So, yesterday, after visiting 5 reef shops I was able to finally get all of my supplies since each store didn't have everything I was looking for or enough of what I needed.. I'm so blessed to have a wife that is passionate about reef keeping as I am, if it wasnt for her, I don't think I would be able to set everything up in time. So, my wife and I set up the 55 gallon emergency QT using 55 gallons of saltwater from my DT, added 10 lb of live rock, 4lb from Jhon at Your Reef and 6lb from my DT that didn't have any corals on it and 2 x fully cured and live Marinepure Ceramic Biomedia 2 inch cubes. I then proceeded to add all the PVC pipes, sponges and bubble sponge filters, heater, powerhead, etc, etc. The one thing that I did was soak a box of Fluval 500g Biomax in 8 FL. OZ. Nite-Out II Nitrifying Bacteria and another box of Fluval 500g Biomax in 8.5 FL. OZ. Seachem Stability for a few hours so that the media became live instantly and was able to penetrate deep into the media shielding it from the copper so it doesn't get zapped. I then got my filter sock from my DT, washed the freaking crap out of it in the DT tank (DT tank was filthy filthy after) because i didn't want all the crap/poop to go into the QT and add ammonia, just the bacteria embedded in the filter sock. I then cut the sides and corners to make one large sheet of live filter sock.
After everything was setup, we tore down our 120 gallon reef tank to catch all of those lil suckers which was a huge PITA!! Once everyone was caught, we divided half the fish in one bucket and the other half into the other bucket with air stones in each bucket to make sure all of the fish were getting enough oxygen. The fish were then given a 5 minute freshwater dip in RO/DI water where they were then placed in a saltwater Acriflavine-MS bath with air stones running for 90 minutes. All of the fish looked like they were doing very well in the Acriflavine-MS bath, did not notice any unusual behavior, there were all out and about swimming normally.. Once the 90 minute bath was up, they were then placed in the QT and I let them chill/de-stress for about an hour n half or so. Then over the course of an hour, I slowly raised the copper level to 1.00ppm (5.4 mL of copper power every 10 minutes for one hour). I dosed the last dose of copper at midnight yesterday to achieve the 1.00ppm.
The following day (Today 10/04/2018) I woke up to the first loss, a female Carberryi Anthia. She wasn't doing so well to begin with, a few days ago in the DT she got beatup by someone and was not in good condition when i started to FW dip her/giving the bath/copper treatment, so I think everything alltogether tipped her over the edge.. My wife having a few days off, She dosed the copper by 0.5mL every 30 minutes starting at 7am while I was at work. So over the course of 16 hours, 11pm pacific time will be the last dose that will raise the copper level of the QT to 1.50ppm. I feel like this is a very good method so am planning on continuing this method (unless you guys think otherwise?) so that the copper is raised VERY VERY slowly for the sensitive fish/so the bacteria dont die in large masses all at once due to large doses all at once.
So far everyone else is going well, do other deaths, fish are not freaking out, they actually look hungry and swim up to the tank for food and are picking on the live rock.. i havent fed them or plan on feeding them for a few days to try to reduce the ammonia from building up since there are so many fish and the QT isnt established.
Last edited:
HotRocks
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Sorry to hear of the lost anthias 
Sounds like you are on track.
Kudos to you for doing this. It will all be worth it. Nice to read this opposed to a complete wipe out thread. I know it's a ton of work.
I don't think the pH badge works in SW fyi.
Watch those ammonia badges! As long as you have water mixed and heated in your brutes you will be good. Just remember to predose it with copper prior to a WC.
Keep up the good work!
Sounds like you are on track.
Kudos to you for doing this. It will all be worth it. Nice to read this opposed to a complete wipe out thread. I know it's a ton of work.
I don't think the pH badge works in SW fyi.
Watch those ammonia badges! As long as you have water mixed and heated in your brutes you will be good. Just remember to predose it with copper prior to a WC.
Keep up the good work!
OP
OP
Coral Keeper
Reef Keeper
Thank you!
Yeah i know, but the LFS only had them as a combo pack ammonia and pH badge.. thought id throw it in for the heck of it.
So i just tested Ammonia and Nitrite uding API test kits and my Ammonia is at about 0.35-0.45 mg/L and Nitrite 0 mg/L. At what point/level of ammonia should i start doing water changes? Also, what are the best methods at keeping pH up in a QT?
@HotRocks
Yeah i know, but the LFS only had them as a combo pack ammonia and pH badge.. thought id throw it in for the heck of it.
So i just tested Ammonia and Nitrite uding API test kits and my Ammonia is at about 0.35-0.45 mg/L and Nitrite 0 mg/L. At what point/level of ammonia should i start doing water changes? Also, what are the best methods at keeping pH up in a QT?
@HotRocks
OP
OP
Coral Keeper
Reef Keeper
However, my Seachem Ammonia Badge is showing that it is between 0.02ppm - 0.05ppm, but definitly not at 0.05ppm or higher...
Last edited:
OP
OP
Coral Keeper
Reef Keeper
I also forgot to mention that i dont have a light on the QT and just use ambient/ceiling light or a flashlight if i have to look close and I'm keeping the QT at a lower tempurture of 75-76F to slow down the growth/reproduction of the velvet and once the copper is at treating levels i plan to ramp up the tempurature to speed up the life cycle of the velvet to kill it quicker? Thoughts?
my thoughts are get that live rock out of the QT!
it will absorb the copper and once it does that, it cant be used again as it will eventually leach out copper into the tank..
I suppose you could acid bath it though but regardless, it will absorb your treatment copper and make it hard to keep a consistent level of copper.
good luck
it will absorb the copper and once it does that, it cant be used again as it will eventually leach out copper into the tank..
I suppose you could acid bath it though but regardless, it will absorb your treatment copper and make it hard to keep a consistent level of copper.
good luck
OP
OP
Coral Keeper
Reef Keeper
Looks like some of the fish are starting to get some bacterial infection signs such as frayed fins and some redness.. What do i do at this point? Should I give daily 90 minute acriflavine baths and also dose the tank with Melafix?? Please help!
OP
OP
Coral Keeper
Reef Keeper
We have our next casualty.. the Mandarin goby passed away after the copper hit 1.50+ ppm
HotRocks
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The API kit won't read accurately with copper in the tank. It skews the reading. So you have to rely on your badges. You also have to read the badges with light shining behind them. So without a tank light the badge can look slightly green. Use a flashlight to shine light into the tank water directly above the badge.
To be 100% honest. I don't test pH in QT very often. I do have a Hanna pH probe. I also have test strips. Don't rely on the badge reading for pH.
HotRocks
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76 degrees is a perfect temp for QT. All mine run at 76. I'd be less worried about the parasite life cycle. I like cooler temps in QT because you get greater oxygen exchange at lower temps. This is important especially when combining meds.
HotRocks
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Looks like some of the fish are starting to get some bacterial infection signs such as frayed fins and some redness.. What do i do at this point? Should I give daily 90 minute acriflavine baths and also dose the tank with Melafix?? Please help!
Can you post pics? If bacterial issues are starting. Adding Kanaplex and Furan-2 are going to be the direction I would go.
HotRocks
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We have our next casualty.. the Mandarin goby passed away after the copper hit 1.50+ ppm
Sorry to hear that. Honestly they usually won't tolerate copper. I should have mentioned that earlier.
OP
OP
Coral Keeper
Reef Keeper
What's the lowest temperature you'd go with while also being safe for the fish? Won't lower temperatures slow down bacterial infections?
I'll try to post some pictures today, some of the fishes tails look to be kind of eaten away, streamers on some fish are just gone..
Do you have any special instructions on exactly how, when, how often to dose those medications for bacterial infection with conjunction of copper?
Yeah, I know.. I read they don't do well with copper.. but there wasn't much else I could have done.. :/
I'll try to post some pictures today, some of the fishes tails look to be kind of eaten away, streamers on some fish are just gone..
Do you have any special instructions on exactly how, when, how often to dose those medications for bacterial infection with conjunction of copper?
Yeah, I know.. I read they don't do well with copper.. but there wasn't much else I could have done.. :/
OP
OP
Coral Keeper
Reef Keeper
Some of the fish look pretty bad due to the velvet.. They are just covered in it when there weren't last night... should I give them a freshwater dip + Acriflavine bath using copper QT water? Or just let the copper do its thing now that im ramping the rest of the dose up this morning to 1.75ppm?
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