Please Help - Slowly receding and unhappy corals

[joefishtank]

That's pretty tough if possible I would start a fresh hospital tank or use a quarantine system you already have. I'd start with freshly mixed salt water so its as sterile as possible. Hydrogen peroxide dip all the affected coral. Scrub the skeleton with a hydrogen peroxide toothbrush. Then dip in CoralRx or Revive. If you don't have access to another tank I would just dip the skeleton next to the zoas and the hammer with algae growing on its skeleton as a test to see if they improve at all.

You have mystery tank death syndrome; maybe there's anaerobic bacteria under your sand poisoning it, maybe there's a strain of toxic dinoflagellates growing on the skeleton. That last one happened to a Goni frag I had, it started receding so I dabbed it with a hydrogen peroxide napkin and it bounced back.

 

[mikeytrw]

OK So I'm writing an update, because lots has happened.

My torches all died quickly and rapidly to BJD. Many other euphylia also slowly receded and died.

I have done another Triton ICP test which again, shows everything in the green except slightly high tin ( 6ug/l) , but according to different sources some don't even consider that amount unsafe, and that is lower than an ICP I did moths before all this kicked off.

I have installed a grounding rod to ensure that it's not current leakage.

I have done some large water changes (3x40%) and maintained a weekly 10%.

I have had some snails die, but my softies and my SPS have never looked healthier.

So I'm stuck. I really don't know what to do or where to go from here. I'm just watching my LPS slowly recede and die.

I would do a DNA biome test thing to test for pathogens or bacterial illness but it's not available in UK.

Do I do a reset or ride this out?

 

[Shirak]

Everything in the green doesn't tell us much. Last I heard your salinity was on the low side and your nutrient fluctuations from nonexistant/very low to low are most likely the culprit. You never answered any of the questions I posted back in early Dec. LPS need to eat ...slowly receding is a nutrition problem IMO. If your water parameters are where they should be (salinity, Ca, Alk, Mg etc) then you need to look at nutrients, light, water flow. All the water changes and 10% week (40%) month is a lot. You are bottoming out your nutrients and starving the LPS.

 

[mikeytrw]

Everything in the green doesn't tell us much. Last I heard your salinity was on the low side and your nutrient fluctuations from nonexistant/very low to low are most likely the culprit. You never answered any of the questions I posted back in early Dec. LPS need to eat ...slowly receding is a nutrition problem IMO. If your water parameters are where they should be (salinity, Ca, Alk, Mg etc) then you need to look at nutrients, light, water flow. All the water changes and 10% week (40%) month is a lot. You are bottoming out your nutrients and starving the LPS.

Hi, my nutrients have been in the 15ppm NO3, 0.12ppm PO4 range for the last 3 months. They occasionally go up or down a bit, but not by more than the testing accuracy of my test kits.

Salinity was a little low, but I slowly brough it up to 34.5ppt. I did this with some salt water in the ATO.

I say everything is in the green, because Triton lab show every parameter and where it sits in relation to a natural or ideal range.

Please tell me what else you would like to know.

 

[Shirak]

I understand the green thing on Triton but that's pretty broad. I prefer actual numbers. I try to keep my salinity 35-36ppt Ca 450ish Mg 1450 alk 8.5
What are you using to test salinity?
What are you using for light and intensity?

Feeding? My LPS do best when they can catch food 2 or 3 times a week. Especially if you feed lightly and with very fine/liquid foods and are not target feeding them and don't have a large fish population.

Have any photos of the tank and corals in question under white lights? Short video might help to see how the water is moving too.

 

[mikeytrw]

I understand the green thing on Triton but that's pretty broad. I prefer actual numbers. I try to keep my salinity 35-36ppt Ca 450ish Mg 1450 alk 8.5
What are you using to test salinity?
What are you using for light and intensity?

Feeding? My LPS do best when they can catch food 2 or 3 times a week. Especially if you feed lightly and with very fine/liquid foods and are not target feeding them and don't have a large fish population.

Have any photos of the tank and corals in question under white lights? Short video might help to see how the water is moving too.

Salinity is tested using a Hanna probe, I regularly calibrate with official Hanna fluid.

Let me just give you the test results.

Ca is 437 and Mg is 1305. 8.5 dkh

As for feeding, I've been using Red Sea AB+ every other day, dose as recommended on the bottle. I also feed the fish/tank a with variety of frozen foods - large mysis for fish and red plankton, lobster eggs which are appropriate for coral.

I can't take a video right now but I will when the lights are back on.

 

[Shirak]

What salt are you using? Salinity Ca and Mg while in the green.. are on the lower side of the green. Wonder if your salinity is still low. I tossed my Hanna salinity meter. Darn thing would never read correctly even immediately following calibration with the proper fluid. If it is though.. would that be enough to cause the problems you are seeing? Maybe?? I still think it's more likely a nutrition or light level issue.

 

[ElementReefer]

I think you should treat with a course of antibiotics ASAP.

I had two LPS do this last fall. I set up a little hospital tank with nothing but an internal filter and a cheap Amazon light, took the coral out of the main tank, dipped them in peroxide and iodine because at that point I had nothing to lose, and dosed antibiotics for a week in the hospital tank. API doxycycline and Erythromycin, because I didn’t have any Cipro.

I thought they were going to die, but they pulled through and then they thrived in that little tank. It was like magic. And let me tell you, the water parameters were not NEARLY as stable as in the main tank. It was a 2.5 gallon emergency hospital tank. It wasn’t even cycled. I watched those coral (a Duncan and a Hammer) start growing through waves of uglies, nutrient instability (within reason), salinity instability (within reason), other frags popping in and out.

They stayed in that little tank for three months. They only recently returned to the main tank. I am now thinking about treating the main tank with Ciprofloxacin (actually it’s veterinary cousin enrefloxacin, which I sourced from a vet.) I continue to have slowly receding tissue on other LPS and very little coral growth other than softies.

I actually have a thread about it right now on R2R. People here are very helpful, I’ve learned so much here. But 90% of the answers are focused on parameters, and mine are fine. You sound like a responsible reefer. Try Cipro.

 

[ElementReefer]

The hammer after antibiotics.

 

[mikeytrw]

I think you should treat with a course of antibiotics ASAP.

I had two LPS do this last fall. I set up a little hospital tank with nothing but an internal filter and a cheap Amazon light, took the coral out of the main tank, dipped them in peroxide and iodine because at that point I had nothing to lose, and dosed antibiotics for a week in the hospital tank. API doxycycline and Erythromycin, because I didn’t have any Cipro.

I thought they were going to die, but they pulled through and then they thrived in that little tank. It was like magic. And let me tell you, the water parameters were not NEARLY as stable as in the main tank. It was a 2.5 gallon emergency hospital tank. It wasn’t even cycled. I watched those coral (a Duncan and a Hammer) start growing through waves of uglies, nutrient instability (within reason), salinity instability (within reason), other frags popping in and out.

They stayed in that little tank for three months. They only recently returned to the main tank. I am now thinking about treating the main tank with Ciprofloxacin (actually it’s veterinary cousin enrefloxacin, which I sourced from a vet.) I continue to have slowly receding tissue on other LPS and very little coral growth other than softies.

I actually have a thread about it right now on R2R. People here are very helpful, I’ve learned so much here. But 90% of the answers are focused on parameters, and mine are fine. You sound like a responsible reefer. Try Cipro.

So, I forgot to mention, I did actually try a Cipro treatment 0.125mg/L x 3 over 6 days. I did notice an improvement but I was very cautious.

How much and how heavily did you treat? I have actually thought about doing another dose, but I'm super cautious about messing with something so powerful in the tank. I do have a QT tank, but no coral lighting for it.

 

[ElementReefer]

If you found this dosing regimen from Eli Meyer, you will find that he chose this dose because it’s low enough to not disrupt the good bacteria, so feel free to try it again.

If that fails, I would put a light on the quarantine tank and put any declining corals in there after a dip and see how they do, because you have nothing to lose.

There are two approaches to reefing: Focus on tank stability and let the corals that live thrive and call that success, or keep intervening and making changes and see what works, being as methodical as possible with different tanks offering different parameters, until you are confident that you are offering your preferred corals what they want. However, you’re not going to make 100% of everything happy 100% of the time.

 

[mikeytrw]

If you found this dosing regimen from Eli Meyer, you will find that he chose this dose because it’s low enough to not disrupt the good bacteria, so feel free to try it again.

If that fails, I would put a light on the quarantine tank and put any declining corals in there after a dip and see how they do, because you have nothing to lose.

There are two approaches to reefing: Focus on tank stability and let the corals that live thrive and call that success, or keep intervening and making changes and see what works, being as methodical as possible with different tanks offering different parameters, until you are confident that you are offering your preferred corals what they want. However, you’re not going to make 100% of everything happy 100% of the time.

Thanks, how many doses can I safely administer, given the short lived success last time I'm tempted to try a longer regimen, perhaps 6 doses over 12 days.

 

[ElementReefer]

I would be comfortable with that plan, in a human or veterinary patient that’s not uncommon, but I’m not a marine biologist so it’s really your call.