Please help with Ich

[Mikemilly245]

Please forgive me for dirty tank, it’s just for QT!!

So some background, in this tank are currently
1x Flame angel
1x mandarin dragonet **
1x engineer goby
1x decorator crab
1x conch
About 2 weeks ago I had a dottyback get ich and die in this tank. Mandarin and engineer goby never showed severe signs of illness since then. Just added the flame angel and inverts Saturday night and this morning I noticed Ich on flame angel.

How do i go about treating this tank? On hand I have
Metroplex
Kanaplex
Ruby reef rally pro

Worried about using copper because of the Mandarin, is that a non issue ? Wouldn’t mind ordering and using copper if it wouldn’t kill the mandarin. I’ve done that in the past and already have Hanna checkers for copper

But at the same time I also wouldn’t mind a less aggressive treatment if possible. I could do hyposalinity but worried about stressing smaller fish out since I’ve heard smaller species don’t tolerate hypo well. Any suggestions ? Have a spare 10 gallon for use too #fishmedic#fishmedic

 

[Lavey29]

Mandarins are pretty immune to ich because of their mucus coat but they don't tolerate copper well either. Hypo or copper are the most common methods for treatment.

 

[BryanM]

#fishmedics

 

[Mikemilly245]

Mandarins are pretty immune to ich because of their mucus coat but they don't tolerate copper well either. Hypo or copper are the most common methods for treatment.

That’s what I thought too, but it sure looks like he’s got it. Part of me wants to just throw the mandarin, crab and conch in the DT so I can treat everything else with copper but that’s probably not the best idea. Although when the dottyback had ick I moved snails from qt to DT and never saw spots.

 

[Mikemilly245]

Is there anything I can do with conch + decorator crab to make me feel a little better about just adding them in the display ? I know there’s mixed opinions on whether inverts can carry ich but I also don’t want to do a full on qt for one snail and crab (also seems like starving them without an established tank) Can I do some sort of dip or TTM method on inverts and add those into display, then run hypo on all sick fish in the biocube ??

 

[Lavey29]

Is there anything I can do with conch + decorator crab to make me feel a little better about just adding them in the display ? I know there’s mixed opinions on whether inverts can carry ich but I also don’t want to do a full on qt for one snail and crab (also seems like starving them without an established tank) Can I do some sort of dip or TTM method on inverts and add those into display, then run hypo on all sick fish in the biocube ??

Not sure but very unlikely the inverts will bring it over. I'm a believer that ich is in every tank and as long as we create a good non stress environment and keep fish well fed healthy then their immune systems keep ich in check. Stressed events like being placed in a new small QT tank can cause the immune system to weaken and the fish gets ich. So I lean more toward ich management then treatment to.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Please forgive me for dirty tank, it’s just for QT!!

So some background, in this tank are currently
1x Flame angel
1x mandarin dragonet **
1x engineer goby
1x decorator crab
1x conch
About 2 weeks ago I had a dottyback get ich and die in this tank. Mandarin and engineer goby never showed severe signs of illness since then. Just added the flame angel and inverts Saturday night and this morning I noticed Ich on flame angel.

How do i go about treating this tank? On hand I have
Metroplex
Kanaplex
Ruby reef rally pro

Worried about using copper because of the Mandarin, is that a non issue ? Wouldn’t mind ordering and using copper if it wouldn’t kill the mandarin. I’ve done that in the past and already have Hanna checkers for copper

But at the same time I also wouldn’t mind a less aggressive treatment if possible. I could do hyposalinity but worried about stressing smaller fish out since I’ve heard smaller species don’t tolerate hypo well. Any suggestions ? Have a spare 10 gallon for use too #fishmedic#fishmedic

If you are 100% certain of your diagnosis, then your two best options are Coppersafe or hyposalinity with no invertebrates present. In this case, there is too much rock and sand in the tank to run Coppersafe, so you would have to go with hyposalinity. Here is a post on that:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2024 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

You cannot move the invertebrates into another tank with fish, as they can carry ich over.

 

[Mikemilly245]

If you are 100% certain of your diagnosis, then your two best options are Coppersafe or hyposalinity with no invertebrates present. In this case, there is too much rock and sand in the tank to run Coppersafe, so you would have to go with hyposalinity. Here is a post on that:

Hyposalinity

Hyposalinity Jay Hemdal 2024 This term refers to a long-term bath treatment for marine fishes in which the salt content of the water is lowered and held below the point that certain parasites can survive. The salt level reached, and the time of the treatment are the two variables...

www.reef2reef.com

You cannot move the invertebrates into another tank with fish, as they can carry ich over.

I wouldn’t say 100%, what do you think?? Spots on other fins too just hard to capture.

So my only option with inverts is a seperate qt than the fish with no meds just let it sit fallow? I’m sort of familiar with hypo, did it earlier this year with all my other fish in DT.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I wouldn’t say 100%, what do you think?? Spots on other fins too just hard to capture.

So my only option with inverts is a seperate qt than the fish with no meds just let it sit fallow? I’m sort of familiar with hypo, did it earlier this year with all my other fish in DT.

If the body and other fins have the same dots, then that is about as close to a 100% ich diagnosis as you can get.

Yes, the inverts need to be held isolated from all other fish - in this case, with an active, fairly heavy infection, I’d hold them for 60 days, otherwise 45 days works.

 

[Mikemilly245]

If the body and other fins have the same dots, then that is about as close to a 100% ich diagnosis as you can get.

Yes, the inverts need to be held isolated from all other fish - in this case, with an active, fairly heavy infection, I’d hold them for 60 days, otherwise 45 days works.

Yikes he’s looking pretty rough. As I’m typing this I’m doing my second water change of three to get to 1.009. Aim to be at target salinity by lunch tomorrow

Flame angel is seeming sluggish, hanging out near bottom. Tried feeding and he would peck at it but didn’t look like he was consuming much. Too late or is there hope?? Strangely enough engineer goby and mandarin both seem “fine”… why is that??

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yikes he’s looking pretty rough. As I’m typing this I’m doing my second water change of three to get to 1.009. Aim to be at target salinity by lunch tomorrow

Flame angel is seeming sluggish, hanging out near bottom. Tried feeding and he would peck at it but didn’t look like he was consuming much. Too late or is there hope?? Strangely enough engineer goby and mandarin both seem “fine”… why is that??

Ich infections hit different fish at different rates, I'm not sure why, probably due to the level of immunity being different between species and even between individuals of the same species if their past exposure has differed.

With ich though, a point is reached where fish immunity becomes overwhelmed and pretty much all fish will develop symptoms.

 

[snizbackskatin]

I’d throw the inverts back into the display tank, you’ll need to keep it fallow for 76 days. Use your other spare tank and go for the tank transfer method. Best way without having to use chemicals.

 

[Mikemilly245]

Ich infections hit different fish at different rates, I'm not sure why, probably due to the level of immunity being different between species and even between individuals of the same species if their past exposure has differed.

With ich though, a point is reached where fish immunity becomes overwhelmed and pretty much all fish will develop symptoms.

That’s fair, didn’t know that about engineer gobies

Flame angel is on its side. But will swim around occasionally. Salinity is at 1.013 - 1.014. Should I go ahead and drop it to 1.009 even though I started yesterday ? Don’t wanna let this guy die

 

[Uncle99]

Yikes he’s looking pretty rough. As I’m typing this I’m doing my second water change of three to get to 1.009. Aim to be at target salinity by lunch tomorrow

Flame angel is seeming sluggish, hanging out near bottom. Tried feeding and he would peck at it but didn’t look like he was consuming much. Too late or is there hope?? Strangely enough engineer goby and mandarin both seem “fine”… why is that??

You can go down to 1.009 within the hour.
That salinity will start to screw with the parasites processing of water, and they blow themselves up, no need to wait.

It’s going up in salinity that’s needs real slow say 0.002 max per day.

 

[Uncle99]

That’s fair, didn’t know that about engineer gobies

Flame angel is on its side. But will swim around occasionally. Salinity is at 1.013 - 1.014. Should I go ahead and drop it to 1.009 even though I started yesterday ? Don’t wanna let this guy die

Yes, there’s no issue with a full drop right away, but keep temp stable.

Go slow when increasing salinity.

 

[Mikemilly245]

Yes, there’s no issue with a full drop right away, but keep temp stable.

Go slow when increasing salinity.

Cool I’m gonna start dropping right now. Good to know. Don’t think I have very much time anyways with this guy

 

[Uncle99]

Cool I’m gonna start dropping right now. Good to know. Don’t think I have very much time anyways with this guy

Hypo salinity causes death to ick.
The lower salinity is less stressful on fish.
There’s a point where it doesn’t matter what you do.
But I wish you both, good luck.

When I do hypo, it’s 1.009 within the hour and I clearly notice no spots about 4-5 days.

If he gets that far, another 14 days of hypo, then in the last 7 days bring them back up to 1.026, 0.001 per day.

I have only done hypo in QT.

That’s about 30 days in treatment.

 

[Mikemilly245]

Hypo salinity causes death to ick.
The lower salinity is less stressful on fish.
There’s a point where it doesn’t matter what you do.
But I wish you both, good luck.

When I do hypo, it’s 1.009 within the hour and I clearly notice no spots about 4-5 days.

If he gets that far, another 14 days of hypo, then in the last 7 days bring them back up to 1.026, 0.001 per day.

I have only done hypo in QT.

That’s about 30 days in treatment.

Just for clarification, you mean achieving 1.009 salinity within the first hour you even notice Ich is present ? That’s a huge time saver I wish I woulda known that. Might mean life or death in my situation lol

 

[Uncle99]

Just for clarification, you mean achieving 1.009 salinity within the first hour you even notice Ich is present ? That’s a huge time saver I wish I woulda known that. Might mean life or death in my situation lol

Yup, speed is everything.

I start with 1.026, then through a water exchange maybe four times, down to 1.009
Temp must stay on point in any direction.

It’s just the increases as each time you increase salinity, the fish must adapt to the new demands of its processing. If salinity rises to fast, fish become stressed out and may look lethargic or pant like a dog in a corner.


The opposite may be true for lower salinity.
Fish I’ve placed into hypo seem to look more lively and breathing easier immediately.

It’s kinda like a long term fresh water dip.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That’s fair, didn’t know that about engineer gobies

Flame angel is on its side. But will swim around occasionally. Salinity is at 1.013 - 1.014. Should I go ahead and drop it to 1.009 even though I started yesterday ? Don’t wanna let this guy die

You can take it to 1.009 pretty easily from this point, but you need to ensure your measuring device is very accurate, as many fish cannot tolerate 1.008 if you mistakenly go a bit too low.