Please help with puffer fish :(

[BaileyB]

So I’ve had my porcupine puffer in QT for 25 days now being treated with copper safe. I have also treated prazipro and maracyn two over the last couple of weeks. Any one able to identify what this is on his skin? He’s been eating pretty well and responding to food good. He goes nuts for krill. Doesn’t like clams so much but nibbles on some raw shrimp when I put some in. This is my 3rd porcupine and all have had issues towards the end of their QT. Please help me identify what’s going on with him and how to help him out. I would rather attack this now than later. thank you guys for the help I really appreciate it!
(other fish in the tank fox face, hippo tang, file fish, copper safe at 1.60).

 

[redfishbluefish]

@Jay Hemdal can most likely help.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So I’ve had my porcupine puffer in QT for 25 days now being treated with copper safe. I have also treated prazipro and maracyn two over the last couple of weeks. Any one able to identify what this is on his skin? He’s been eating pretty well and responding to food good. He goes nuts for krill. Doesn’t like clams so much but nibbles on some raw shrimp when I put some in. This is my 3rd porcupine and all have had issues towards the end of their QT. Please help me identify what’s going on with him and how to help him out. I would rather attack this now than later. thank you guys for the help I really appreciate it!
(other fish in the tank fox face, hippo tang, file fish, copper safe at 1.60).

Coppersafe should be at 2 ppm. It is so mild that if you drop below that, it won’t really work.
That said, this is unlikely to be a parasite that copper will control.
Did this lesion show up suddenly, or did it grow in size over time?
Jay

 

[Crashjack]

Copper is not really recommended with puffers. I believe some folks have had some success with Cupramine (non-chelated).

 

[Crashjack]

Copper is not really recommended with puffers. I believe some folks have had some success with Cupramine (non-chelated).

I will defer to @Jay Hemdal as he is the expert.

 

[BaileyB]

Coppersafe should be at 2 ppm. It is so mild that if you drop below that, it won’t really work.
That said, this is unlikely to be a parasite that copper will control.
Did this lesion show up suddenly, or did it grow in size over time?
Jay

This just showed up over night, I’ve been watching this guy like a hawk the past month and this suddenly showed up. Any sort of medication I can treat with? Bacterial or fungal infection you thinking?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Trouble is, it could be bacterial or fungal. External fungal infections are very rare in marine fish, so the typical option is to treat with antibiotics. Most external bacterial infections are secondary to some injury though, primary infections that just show up on healthy skin is also pretty rare. Porcupines are also prone to odd parasites not often seen in other fish - including copepods. Can you see any sign that this lesion could be feeding damage from a parasite living on the skin there?
Jay

 

[BaileyB]

Trouble is, it could be bacterial or fungal. External fungal infections are very rare in marine fish, so the typical option is to treat with antibiotics. Most external bacterial infections are secondary to some injury though, primary infections that just show up on healthy skin is also pretty rare. Porcupines are also prone to odd parasites not often seen in other fish - including copepods. Can you see any sign that this lesion could be feeding damage from a parasite living on the skin there?
Jay

I don’t appear to see any sort of parasite/worm or anything on the lesion, just looks as if his skin is opening up. What would your course of action be if this was your puffer Jay? Would Melafix be a viable option? I guess it’s hard to pick a course of action if we don’t know 100% what it is. Just in a pickle of what I should do

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don’t appear to see any sort of parasite/worm or anything on the lesion, just looks as if his skin is opening up. What would your course of action be if this was your puffer Jay? Would Melafix be a viable option? I guess it’s hard to pick a course of action if we don’t know 100% what it is. Just in a pickle of what I should do

I would avoid Melafix, it is a botanical tonic, not a true medication. You could try another broad spectrum, gram negative antibiotic - Neoplex or Furan-2 perhaps. Did you dose the Maracyn 2 for the full label directions? How long ago did you do that?

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I will defer to @Jay Hemdal as he is the expert.

Well, I learn new things every day (grin). I do know that coppersafe is fine for puffers at 2 ppm.

Jay

 

[BaileyB]

I would avoid Melafix, it is a botanical tonic, not a true medication. You could try another broad spectrum, gram negative antibiotic - Neoplex or Furan-2 perhaps. Did you dose the Maracyn 2 for the full label directions? How long ago did you do that?

Jay

I used maracyn 2 about 2 weeks ago, and followed the suggested dosage on the box. I might give furan 2 a try. I’m ok to use the furan 2 in my QT with my other fish correct? And will furan 2 kill beneficial bacteria similar to maracyn 2? What about general cure? Sorry for all the questions Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I used maracyn 2 about 2 weeks ago, and followed the suggested dosage on the box. I might give furan 2 a try. I’m ok to use the furan 2 in my QT with my other fish correct? And will furan 2 kill beneficial bacteria similar to maracyn 2? What about general cure? Sorry for all the questions Jay

No worries about the questions - I'm just working through this with you, so we both have questions!

I don't think that Furan-2 has a huge negative effect against nitrifying bacteria, but any time you dose with antibiotics, it is prudent to monitor the ammonia levels to ensure they haven't been unduly disrupted.
General Cure should not have any negative effect on the beneficial bacteria, but it is primarily an anti-parasitic medication, and only has benefit against some anaerobic bacteria. Most fish bacteria pathogens are aerobic.
As I mentioned, this *could* be fungal, and if so, no antibiotic will help. I have seen some benefit from formalin baths in those cases.

Jay

 

[NaturalGothic]

It appears to be bacterial. Personally, I’d take some of the tank water in a mid size bucket and add in about 2mL of API melafix and (even though I don’t think it’s a fungus) add in 2mL of API Pimafix. I’d give him a bath in that mix for around 5-10 minutes with an airstone.
I do this with my fish so I don’t have to medicate the tank (Melafix can lower PH) and so I don’t have to use heavy duty antibiotics. Also, it’s less stressful on the fish because it’s a natural but effective remedy.

P.S.-
Yes, you can use the freshwater version of Melafix; it’s the same ingredients just not as concentrated.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It appears to be bacterial. Personally, I’d take some of the tank water in a mid size bucket and add in about 2mL of API melafix and (even though I don’t think it’s a fungus) add in 2mL of API Pimafix. I’d give him a bath in that mix for around 5-10 minutes with an airstone.
I do this with my fish so I don’t have to medicate the tank (Melafix can lower PH) and so I don’t have to use heavy duty antibiotics. Also, it’s less stressful on the fish because it’s a natural but effective remedy.

P.S.-
Yes, you can use the freshwater version of Melafix; it’s the same ingredients just not as concentrated.

Both of those products are botanical tonics and not well suited to treat acute bacterial and fungal infections. There is little literature that supports their efficacy in aquariums. There is one paper that concludes: "Although the oils were bacteriostatic and fungistatic, they were not microbiocidal against the strains tested." This means they limit, but do not eliminate, these bacterial and fungal issues. Melaleuca has been proven to be bacteriostatic against Aeromonas bacteria, but it was concluded not "to show curative efficacy".

Jay