Please STOP CIPROFLOXACIN DIPS and other antibiotics

[livinlifeinBKK]

Plagues come from animals when a virus jumps species, and the new species has no immunity. This typically happens from birds to humans (H1N1 - aka the Spanish Flu) - and probably not from eating crows - just from environmental exposure. This can also happen from animal husbandry, for swine flu especially, but again, being vegan won't save you. It's usually the person in contact with the live animal, not the one who eats the cooked animal, who is most at risk.

Agree with pretty much everything but this... antibiotics don't kill viruses...

 

[FishTruck]

Agree with pretty much everything but this... antibiotics don't kill viruses...

The poster to whom I was responding mentioned that Plagues come from animals and that being vegan will solve that.
We are, therefore, in agreement that viral plagues have nothing to do with antibiotics or being vegan.

 

[Bridgerdean]

I had to give up on Amoxicillin and Cipro dips. I now only use Meropenem.
(This is a joke) over Rx’d ABX will end humanity some day, only aptasia will survive.

 

[Reef and Dive]

What does this have to do with the m overuse/unnecessary use of antibiotics?

Nothing. But this is totally related to bacterial resistance.

Antibiotics are a chemical weapon developed to work well once bacteria have not previously been exposed to it.

Let me give a more specific insight:

One of the most prevalent bateria that causes urinary tract infection is Escherichia coli. It lives usually in our gastrointestinal tract, but it also lives very well on waste waters.

Once we throw fresh antibiotics that are very important to treat this bacteria on the drain it naturally gets resistant to the medication after natural selection.

This resistant bacteria no longer dies with that medication and can even “transfer” this resistence information to other bacteria using plasmids.

Cipro is a very special and important antibiotic in medicine. Once bacteria is resistant to it we usually have to use a stronger one. In practical terms, the stronger choices usually require a much more complex treatment with intravenous in-hospital antibiotics. This person being treated inside the hospital creates the oportunity for the bacteria to become resistant to the most strong medicantions.

This sequence of events do not require large amounts of antibiotics to be thrown on waste waters, it only requires exposure.

Finally this creates a very dangerous situation as I explained…

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Nothing. But this is totally related to bacterial resistance.

Antibiotics are a chemical weapon developed to work well once bacteria have not previously been exposed to it.

Let me give a more specific insight:

One of the most prevalent bateria that causes urinary tract infection is Escherichia coli. It lives usually in our gastrointestinal tract, but it also lives very well on waste waters.

Once we throw fresh antibiotics that are very important to treat this bacteria on the drain it naturally gets resistant to the medication after natural selection.

This resistant bacteria no longer dies with that medication and can even “transfer” this resistence information to other bacteria using plasmids.

Cipro is a very special and important antibiotic in medicine. Once bacteria is resistant to it we usually have to use a stronger one. In practical terms, the stronger choices usually require a much more complex treatment with intravenous in-hospital antibiotics. This person being treated inside the hospital creates the oportunity for the bacteria to become resistant to the most strong medicantions.

This sequence of events do not require large amounts of antibiotics to be thrown on waste waters, it only requires exposure.

Finally this creates a very dangerous situation as I explained…

Yeah, i agree with literally everything you're saying... didn't get how animals simply peeing and pooping in streams contributes (unless the poster was referring to animals treated with antibiotics which he didn't make mention of)

 

[Reef and Dive]

I've used ciprofloxacin as a dip along with chemiclean and iodine. It's only as a last resort to save a very expensive coral. But I would never treat the entire system with antibiotics. I've never had any luck saving sps with it. If I see a coral struggling for a long period of time I will make a small antibiotic dip and place the coral in the solution for a few hours. I always wondered if the next time that coral looks unhealthy would it be resistant to antibiotics?

I imagine it could be possible, and it could be also a lot resistant to many other types of bacteria once it’s holobiont has been destroyed.

 

[Cell]

I'm thinking the added ciprofloxacin by reefers into our water supplies is a drop in the bucket compared to what is already there. We are a small hobby with even fewer of us using cipro.

 

[Reef and Dive]

Yeah, i agree with literally everything you're saying... didn't get how animals simply peeing and pooping in streams contributes (unless the poster was referring to animals treated with antibiotics which he didn't make mention of)

This is not a common antibiotic. This is one of the best medical weapons today.

 

[Reef and Dive]

I'm thinking the added ciprofloxacin by reefers into our water supplies is a drop in the bucket compared to what is already there. We are a small hobby with even fewer of us using cipro.

As I answered above it is not about volume, but about simple exposure.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Personally i don't agree with using antibiotics that are critical for treating humans for aquariums even if you try to deactivate the antibiotic afterwards since it's unlikely most people would go through the trouble or even if they did i doubt it would be fully effective

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I'm thinking the added ciprofloxacin by reefers into our water supplies is a drop in the bucket compared to what is already there. We are a small hobby with even fewer of us using cipro.

That's true it is a drop in the bucket but what if everyone started taking antibiotics for simple illnesses because they're only a drop in the bucket...those drops add up...

 

[Cell]

That's true it is a drop in the bucket but what if everyone started taking antibiotics for simple illnesses because they're only a drop in the bucket...those drops add up...

I'm not clear on the whole volume vs exposure argument being presented, but when our wastewater already has high levels present by runoff, pharm waste etc...the amount added by reefers doesn't really change anything.

If you are adding water to a bucket with a hose and I'm adding it with a squirt gun, you can tell me to stop, but if the hose is still running, me stopping it doesn't change anything meaningful.

 

[olonmv]

Yea, I’m more worried about waste away disease jumping from deer to humans than a I am a few SW hobbyists using AB. If you don’t know, look it up. Very scary disease. That virus can’t be killed.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

I'm not clear on the whole volume vs exposure argument being presented, but when our wastewater already has high levels present by runoff, pharm waste etc...the amount added by reefers doesn't really change anything.

If you are adding water to a bucket with a hose and I'm adding it with a squirt gun, you can tell me to stop, but if the hose is still running, me stopping it doesn't change anything meaningful.

I think the general idea is to do whatever you can to slow the process...maybe you can't do much but doing something is always more than nothing and just throwing up your hands saying "someone else caused a majority of the problem, not me", right?

 

[Cell]

I think the general idea is to do whatever you can to slow the process...maybe you can't do much but doing something is always more than nothing and just throwing up your hands saying "someone else caused a majority of the problem, not me", right?

I think in some cases this can be impactful overtime, but in others, it's just to make yourself feel better.

 

[Dbichler]

CWD would be the zombie apocalypse. Thankfully there hasn’t been any known jump and a lot of people have ate deer that have had it.

 

[olonmv]

CWD would be the zombie apocalypse. Thankfully there hasn’t been any known jump and a lot of people have ate deer that have had it.

Incurable disease and all you can do is waste away to death. Extreme heat or cold can’t kill it and it just laughs at all other treatment attempts.

 

[Cell]

I'd be curious to hear @Jay Hemdal thoughts on this subject.

 

[FishTruck]

I'd be curious to hear @Jay Hemdal thoughts on this subject.

He will say that humans should quit wasting all the antibiotics because it might get harder to treat the fish at some point... or else I will be disappointed

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'd be curious to hear @Jay Hemdal thoughts on this subject.

I actually only have a personal opinion, as I don't have a background in human medicine.

So here it is: I virtually never use antibiotic baths to treat fish. I either don't use them at all, and see if the fish recovers on its own given supportive therapy (virtually all external bacterial infections are caused by a problem in the environment) or I dose orally or through injection. I will give advice to people here regarding antibiotic baths, because if I don't, somebody else will, and often do it poorly (grin). The only drugs I commonly suggest are:

Erythromycin for eye injuries
Neomycin for gram negative external infections
Kanamycin as a sub for above

For some reason, folks in Europe often use Enro/Cipro, so I'll give them a dose for that if they ask for it.

Back in my fish wholesale / retail days (late 70's), I used a whole suite of strong drugs: Nalidixic acid, sulfa/trimeth, etc. The physicians here will cringe, but I recall how my eyes would water and I would cough when mixing up chloramphenicol powder in aquariums...

Jay