Plumbing ? For new system!

WRB · Oct 6, 2021

I'm gathering parts for a new 150DT. My 120DT is getting sketchy so might as well go bigger!
I never had a sump in the past 4 decades so I'ma bit leary.
Does anyone know of a inline valve that uses a solenoid or electro magnet that when it looses power it closes.
I'd like to incorporate a valve or ?, in the drain lines to the sump so if the tank looses power the sump won't overflow.
I'd leave one of the emergency drains open in case of a failure of that valve since it would be the highest of the drains.
I can control my return pump remotely if the valve fails not due to a power outage.
Open to ideas on handling emergencies, Not enough room to have a sump large enough to catch all the overflow before the water would be low enough not to be an issue. I live in the mountains so I'm a good hour away if something goes south while I'm gone.
FWIW, I've be reading all the Plumbing and Harware Stickies and archives.

sunken3 · Oct 6, 2021

just buy a check valve. they only allow water to go one way.. therefore when the power goes out, the water cant over flow your sump.. no electricity needed. dont get the kind from home depot (and similar) as they use metal springs, get the flapper style).

WRB · Oct 6, 2021

Do you have one in the return pump line and the drain lines. Sorry, bit new to all this.

Gtinnel · Oct 6, 2021

sunken3 said:
just buy a check valve. they only allow water to go one way.. therefore when the power goes out, the water cant over flow your sump.. no electricity needed. dont get the kind from home depot (and similar) as they use metal springs, get the flapper style).

They're wanting to stop the drain from draining in the event of a issue. There is no way to do that with a check valve because they're trying to stop flow in the direction that it normally flows.

Gtinnel · Oct 6, 2021

WRB said:
I'm gathering parts for a new 150DT. My 120DT is getting sketchy so might as well go bigger!
I never had a sump in the past 4 decades so I'ma bit leary.
Does anyone know of a inline valve that uses a solenoid or electro magnet that when it looses power it closes.
I'd like to incorporate a valve or ?, in the drain lines to the sump so if the tank looses power the sump won't overflow.
I'd leave one of the emergency drains open in case of a failure of that valve since it would be the highest of the drains.
I can control my return pump remotely if the valve fails not due to a power outage.
Open to ideas on handling emergencies, Not enough room to have a sump large enough to catch all the overflow before the water would be low enough not to be an issue. I live in the mountains so I'm a good hour away if something goes south while I'm gone.
FWIW, I've be reading all the Plumbing and Harware Stickies and archives.

They make solenoid valves in just about every size. I personally wouldn't trust it though it seems like your asking for issues. What size sump can you fit? My display is 125g and my sump is a 20g long, and it holds the extra water easily. If you set it up properly it doesn't take too much extra space.

WRB · Oct 6, 2021

Gtinnel said:
They're wanting to stop the drain from draining in the event of a issue. There is no way to do that with a check valve because they're trying to stop flow in the direction that it normally flows.

Exactly!

Gtinnel said:
They make solenoid valves in just about every size. I personally wouldn't trust it though it seems like your asking for issues. What size sump can you fit? My display is 125g and my sump is a 20g long, and it holds the extra water easily. If you set it up properly it doesn't take too much extra space.

So in the event of an outage and your tank continues to sipfon off until it hits the too low mark won't over-flow your sump since it already has water in ti prior to the emergency.
Not sure how far the level will drop but using a 4" drop before the siphon is broken adds appox. 29 gallons to a sump. Even 3"s is almost 19.
Tank is 24x60

Gtinnel · Oct 6, 2021

My tank instantly breaks siphon. I have a small anti-siphon hole drilled above the water line on my return plumbing. The only amount mine drains is the little bit that is higher than the weir.
I do have to make sure that the hole stays clear of algea though, which usually isn't an issue because of the flow coming through it.

WRB · Oct 6, 2021

So then are your drains in the shape of a U with a hole in the high corner?
Or can a stand pipe just have a hole drilled in the side and accomplish the same thing.
TIA

Gtinnel · Oct 6, 2021

WRB said:
So then are your drains in the shape of a U with a hole in the high corner?
Or can a stand pipe just have a hole drilled in the side and accomplish the same thing.
TIA

Mine is the traditional corner overflow with a durso sandpipe in both corners of the tank. They are set to where the durso only drains a few inches lower than the weir, so I only gain a tiny bit of water from the corner overflows. Usually when you deal with an issue with siphoning it's from the return nozzle. It is the return nozzles where my anti siphon hole is drilled. I'm not home to take pictures but I'll see if I can find any on my phone to help show what I'm talking about.

I've never measured but I probably only drain about 4 gallons to the sump when the power goes out. It's 5 gallons at the absolute most

Gtinnel · Oct 6, 2021

I can't find a picture that shows it, but I'll take pictures when I get home this evening.

JoshH · Oct 6, 2021

WRB said:
I'm gathering parts for a new 150DT. My 120DT is getting sketchy so might as well go bigger!
I never had a sump in the past 4 decades so I'ma bit leary.
Does anyone know of a inline valve that uses a solenoid or electro magnet that when it looses power it closes.
I'd like to incorporate a valve or ?, in the drain lines to the sump so if the tank looses power the sump won't overflow.
I'd leave one of the emergency drains open in case of a failure of that valve since it would be the highest of the drains.
I can control my return pump remotely if the valve fails not due to a power outage.
Open to ideas on handling emergencies, Not enough room to have a sump large enough to catch all the overflow before the water would be low enough not to be an issue. I live in the mountains so I'm a good hour away if something goes south while I'm gone.
FWIW, I've be reading all the Plumbing and Harware Stickies and archives.

The best designed system won't need a check valve. No check valve is invincible and will eventually fail you. Best to skip them entirely and go with a setup that breaks a siphon properly (Almost every system can be set this way) and a sump that can handle whatever is going to drain down in the event the power is shut off.

Check valves are expensive and for a product that may, or may not work, even if you maintain it properly (Oh that's another thing, they should be checked and cleaned regulary which is added maintainence) atleast IMO are a total waste.

BTW you are only going to experience, as mentioned above, a few gallons of water unless your tank is monsterous, which I don't believe it is. Very easy to handle sump wise.

sunken3 · Oct 6, 2021

maybe I am missing something, but I have several aquariums with sumps.. as long as your tank uses a standard overflow and you have your inlets at the top of the tank, an in expensive check valve is all you need on the line.

if you are plumbing through the bottom of the tank and your inlets or drains are down in the tank.. that could be a different issue. Still doable, but yes if the check valve failed it would be riskier, but I have never seen a standard setup like that.

WRB · Oct 6, 2021

Currently I'm looking at a Planet 150DT with an internal over-flow and the bottom of the tank is drilled.
3 holes (2 Drains,1 Return) Is there an advantage to going with a tank with an overflow in each corner instead. Need to keep the plumbing in the foor-print of the cabinet to optimize my limited space.
So straight down into the cabinet works best for my application.

JoshH · Oct 6, 2021

WRB said:
Currently I'm looking at a Planet 150DT with an internal over-flow and the bottom of the tank is drilled.
3 holes (2 Drains,1 Return) Is there an advantage to going with a tank with an overflow in each corner instead. Need to keep the plumbing in the foor-print of the cabinet to optimize my limited space.
So straight down into the cabinet works best for my application.

No real advantage, unless that is what you want asthetic wise. A bit more of a pain to plumb and you'll spend more plumbing it though.

Johnd651 · Oct 6, 2021

To answer your original question... an NC valve is one that is normally closed when not energized. I've never seen this in reefing. When I setup my last reef tank a while back I do remember filling it to just under the overflow, and then filling the sump, running the pump, and filing the sump just until the water started to overflow.

Gtinnel · Oct 6, 2021

WRB said:
Currently I'm looking at a Planet 150DT with an internal over-flow and the bottom of the tank is drilled.
3 holes (2 Drains,1 Return) Is there an advantage to going with a tank with an overflow in each corner instead. Need to keep the plumbing in the foor-print of the cabinet to optimize my limited space.
So straight down into the cabinet works best for my application.

There is no advantage to the corner overflows, it's just the design used for many of the cheap aquariums which mine is. I wish mine weren't corner overflows actually. When I started this tank I was trying to do everything as cheap as possible and now I wish I would've gone with a custom made tank.
Here is a picture inside my overflow using a durso stand pipe (technically it's not a durso because I left the top open and put an airline down into the plumbing but close enough)