Plumbing two fixed points help

iambes · Sep 16, 2020

Hey all,

So... it’s tough for me to wrap my head around how to complete hard PVC connections when connecting two fixed points. Only attempted once before and having trouble finding good instructions. Any pointers or tutorials/videos anyone found helpful?

Right now I am plumbing my innovative marine INT 75 to an icecap 30 reef sump. So i am going from 1”bulkheads to 1” fixed connections at sump. I’ll attach a picture of where I’m at now and trying to think about the best approach to finish up the main drain without too much guesswork.

I’ve glued everything but the piece attached to the sump and gate valve.( just dry fit there to show what I’ll attempting) The plan from here is remove the last elbow at that union and glue from sump to gate valve to the elbow I remove. Then hope I’m close enough on measurements/angle to reconnect the Union lol, any better ideas?

theatrus · Sep 16, 2020

Unions give you a little wiggle, and on a drain aren't likely to drip or leak even if not perfectly square.

However, I'd consider using an NPT threaded fitting on the sump connection or the valve, which will allow you to add an axis of rotation to align the horizontal union, If there isn't enough space to spin the valve + elbow assembly around, can you scoot out the sump from the stand?

LiveWire · Sep 16, 2020

I myself hard plumb everything i can. I'm just not a fan of flexible tube or the fact that they grow mold if they are clear. So I have done this many time with all the systems I have had through the years. i just completed plumbing 4 frag tanks together and hope to get water in them this weekend.

If I was finishing this plumbing I myself I first would straighten the ball valve so it is lined up and the handle is in line with the front and back of the sump. Then I would glue everything pictured together, then measure the piece that will go from the gate valve to the ell. Then I would take the union apart glue one end of the piece you cut to the ell and the other to the gate valve and reconnect the union and you should be good to go.

Eagle_Steve · Sep 16, 2020

Measure distance in between the 2 fittings. Note that. Measure the recess inside each fitting from the end of the fitting to the stop point in the fittings. Add those 2 measurement together and then add the first measurement to that. That is the length of pipe you need if you bottom the pipe out on the stops inside the fittings.

HuduVudu · Sep 16, 2020

iambes said:
Hey all,

So... it’s tough for me to wrap my head around how to complete hard PVC connections when connecting two fixed points. Only attempted once before and having trouble finding good instructions. Any pointers or tutorials/videos anyone found helpful?

Right now I am plumbing my innovative marine INT 75 to an icecap 30 reef sump. So i am going from 1”bulkheads to 1” fixed connections at sump. I’ll attach a picture of where I’m at now and trying to think about the best approach to finish up the main drain without too much guesswork.

I’ve glued everything but the piece attached to the sump and gate valve.( just dry fit there to show what I’ll attempting) The plan from here is remove the last elbow at that union and glue from sump to gate valve to the elbow I remove. Then hope I’m close enough on measurements/angle to reconnect the Union lol, any better ideas?

Maybe this can help and maybe not because you have already glued this but 2 45s would have been better for head than the 2 90s.

As for your predicament, glue all of the sump side pieces together including the missing piece. Make sure the missing piece is intentionally longer than necessary. Swing the union piece slightly out of the way and then move it in closer and mark the missing piece just slightly below the crook of the elbow piece. Also mark the missing piece at the bottom of where the 90 touches. Cut at the upper mark and then disconnect the union and glue the whole thing together making sure to push the 90 to the missing piece until it reaches the mark. If you want to make sure everything stays exactly aligned then when you mark the lower part of the 90 put another mark on the 90 and when you glue ensure they line up.

One thing to note make sure that you twist the fitting on. I don't how many times I have tried to push the fitting only to have it seize far from where I needed it to be.

Good luck these are tricky.

iambes · Sep 16, 2020

LiveWire said:
I myself hard plumb everything i can. I'm just not a fan of flexible tube or the fact that they grow mold if they are clear. So I have done this many time with all the systems I have had through the years. i just completed plumbing 4 frag tanks together and hope to get water in them this weekend.

If I was finishing this plumbing I myself I first would straighten the ball valve so it is lined up and the handle is in line with the front and back of the sump. Then I would glue everything pictured together, then measure the piece that will go from the gate valve to the ell. Then I would take the union apart glue one end of the piece you cut to the ell and the other to the gate valve and reconnect the union and you should be good to go.

This is what I ended up doing, and worked out fine. Think I let the glue get to my head and was overthinking it lol. The reassurance helped - much appreciated

iambes · Sep 16, 2020

theatrus said:
Unions give you a little wiggle, and on a drain aren't likely to drip or leak even if not perfectly square.

However, I'd consider using an NPT threaded fitting on the sump connection or the valve, which will allow you to add an axis of rotation to align the horizontal union, If there isn't enough space to spin the valve + elbow assembly around, can you scoot out the sump from the stand?

Thanks much for the advice, the piece on top of/ attached to the sump is threaded, so I am actually able to rotate that if needed.

iambes · Sep 16, 2020

HuduVudu said:
Maybe this can help and maybe not because you have already glued this but 2 45s would have been better for head than the 2 90s.

As for your predicament, glue all of the sump side pieces together including the missing piece. Make sure the missing piece is intentionally longer than necessary. Swing the union piece slightly out of the way and then move it in closer and mark the missing piece just slightly below the crook of the elbow piece. Also mark the missing piece at the bottom of where the 90 touches. Cut at the upper mark and then disconnect the union and glue the whole thing together making sure to push the 90 to the missing piece until it reaches the mark. If you want to make sure everything stays exactly aligned then when you mark the lower part of the 90 put another mark on the 90 and when you glue ensure they line up.

One thing to note make sure that you twist the fitting on. I don't how many times I have tried to push the fitting only to have it seize far from where I needed it to be.

Good luck these are tricky.

Thank you very much for the measurement and marking instructions , this was actually very helpful and appreciated.

jeffrey750750 · Sep 16, 2020

I hard plumbed 90% of my last build and it wasn't easy. Take your time and dry fit everything.

iambes · Sep 16, 2020

Got everything together. Hoping the upwards angle of the secondary drain doesn’t affect anything ( other than look bad lol ran out of parts to re-do it for now )

Oregon Grown Reef · Sep 16, 2020

iambes said:
Got everything together. Hoping the upwards angle of the secondary drain doesn’t affect anything ( other than look bad lol ran out of parts to re-do it for now )

On the secondary drain, is there a reason you have the union at the last part instead of the middle of the long section? Imo, you'd want that on the middle section and put a fixed elbow+pipe after that. By doing so, you'll be able to remeasure the height distance and also adjust the angle the pipe is going down in case it isn't glued perfectly straight. If you need help on how to measure the length of pipe needed minus fitting size, send me a PM and I can walk you through it.

iambes · Sep 16, 2020

oregongrownreef said:
On the secondary drain, is there a reason you have the union at the last part instead of the middle of the long section? Imo, you'd want that on the middle section and put a fixed elbow+pipe after that. By doing so, you'll be able to remeasure the height distance and also adjust the angle the pipe is going down in case it isn't glued perfectly straight. If you need help on how to measure the length of pipe needed minus fitting size, send me a PM and I can walk you through it.

I actually just did that as I thought it made more sense after doing the primary and realizing it would’ve been nice to be able to turn both elbows ( after I glued it I remembered I can Just turn it from the threaded connection at the sump)

so... no, I have no logical reason other than glue inhalation lol. Lots of trial and error with measuring today, but I think I do have that down for the most part now, other than variance from pipe not going into connections as far as anticipated every time.

Oregon Grown Reef · Sep 16, 2020

iambes said:
I actually just did that as I thought it made more sense after doing the primary and realizing it would’ve been nice to be able to turn both elbows ( after I glued it I remembered I can Just turn it from the threaded connection at the sump)

so... no, I have no logical reason other than glue inhalation lol. Lots of trial and error with measuring today, but I think I do have that down for the most part now, other than variance from pipe not going into connections as far as anticipated every time.

Been there, done that. That stuff

iambes said:
I actually just did that as I thought it made more sense after doing the primary and realizing it would’ve been nice to be able to turn both elbows ( after I glued it I remembered I can Just turn it from the threaded connection at the sump)

so... no, I have no logical reason other than glue inhalation lol. Lots of trial and error with measuring today, but I think I do have that down for the most part now, other than variance from pipe not going into connections as far as anticipated every time.

Glue inhalation is bad, m'kay. Make sure to do any gluing outside, if at all possible. I live in an apartment complex. My neighbors have asked me several times what I was doing, whether it was staining wood or gluing PVC. Can't wait to see what it looks like when it's done. Don't be afraid to order more parts to get it done the right way. You'll greatly appreciate it down the road when you finally do that maintenance you said you'd do 6 months ago.

iambes · Sep 16, 2020

oregongrownreef said:
Been there, done that. That stuff

Glue inhalation is bad, m'kay. Make sure to do any gluing outside, if at all possible. I live in an apartment complex. My neighbors have asked me several times what I was doing, whether it was staining wood or gluing PVC. Can't wait to see what it looks like when it's done. Don't be afraid to order more parts to get it done the right way. You'll greatly appreciate it down the road when you finally do that maintenance you said you'd do 6 months ago.

Haha know how it goes with the nosy neighbors, at least it’s only glue !

i would definitely order more parts and fix if the angle will be an issue or if there’s any leaks of course , but I think maintenance wise I’ll be okay as is.

I can see why it’s not ideal to have an upwards angle on the secondary drain, but do you think this will cause issues, assuming there are no leaks?

hate to throw out unions and elbows if it’s not necessary, but it would certainly look better.