Poor Man's Nutrients Control - Donovan's Nitrate Destroyer

bezj

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This is the best thread ever! Donovan was a genius!!

500 litre reef tank I built mine using some 18inch clear reactor chambers each holding 1.2 litres of media. Large/medium balls and rings linked by air line tube. went for this size to prevent clogging. Sump cabinet is dark so with clear is great to see what’s going on inside. Fine stream of water for flow rate.

Its been up and running for 2 weeks having seeded for 3 days with Aquaforest Bio S followed by 2ml x3 times a day of No-pox. No3 was 80ppm in DT. Just tested output and it’s 5ppm!

Very early days but very pleased!

Unsure of what to do next! Any thoughts??
 

Reefing_addiction

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This is the best thread ever! Donovan was a genius!!

500 litre reef tank I built mine using some 18inch clear reactor chambers each holding 1.2 litres of media. Large/medium balls and rings linked by air line tube. went for this size to prevent clogging. Sump cabinet is dark so with clear is great to see what’s going on inside. Fine stream of water for flow rate.

Its been up and running for 2 weeks having seeded for 3 days with Aquaforest Bio S followed by 2ml x3 times a day of No-pox. No3 was 80ppm in DT. Just tested output and it’s 5ppm!

Very early days but very pleased!

Unsure of what to do next! Any thoughts??
Make sure you don’t bottom out and cause a Dino outbreak
 

DancingWind

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Reactor output is 5pmm. DT is still around the 80ppm mark.
slowly - i droped mine from 50 to 5 in about 3 months.
remember high range end in test kits is well +-25 or so ... even if its dropping it will take time to notice and its good to do it slowly.

you can increase carbon dose to accelerate denitrification... but 1.2l is kind of low media volume. I have ~6l for 650l system.
 

madeinmanado

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Great thread. I already read twice this thread. I run medium scale farm, coral and fish. How do you think guys is DND suitable for variable loads like in my farm, which every 2 weeks there are sold items and new frags or fishes coming.
I am using NSW and crush coral.
Many thanks for your upcoming response!
Two thumbs up for Donovan, RIP Sir!
 

Afterburner

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At one point I built one of these because my NO3 was really high. While I was building it, I set up a dosing pump with NOPOX with one of those porous bricks in my fuge, and it worked so well that I threw out my project because it took up too much room under my tank. Now I dose 2ml per day and my mixed reef stays around 2ppm NO3 and 0.08 PO4. I find that if I increase the NOPOX just a little my PO4 gets close to zero along with NO3. The SPS take off, but the LPS hate it, so I just keep PO4 less than 0.10 because I like the mixed reef look. The simple dosing of NOPOX and letting the rocks in my tank do the work of a Donovan reactor is the easiest way to go. Keep in mind, when I started this years ago my NO3 was probably around 80 and I was treating my PO4 with Lanthanum, so I dosed a lot of NOPOX and tested every day for months before the ecosystem stabilized and I could get down to only a few ml of NOPOX a day and don't even remember where my Lanthanum bottle is. Now I sometimes go weeks without testing anything other than Alkalinty. When the corals start looking bad I test everything and that's usually when I figure out that I ran out of NOPOX and replace the bottle, step up to 4ml a day for about a week. As we all know by now that there are multiple ways to get things done, and I am sure that Donovan's approach worked well for him.
 

madeinmanado

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At one point I built one of these because my NO3 was really high. While I was building it, I set up a dosing pump with NOPOX with one of those porous bricks in my fuge, and it worked so well that I threw out my project because it took up too much room under my tank. Now I dose 2ml per day and my mixed reef stays around 2ppm NO3 and 0.08 PO4. I find that if I increase the NOPOX just a little my PO4 gets close to zero along with NO3. The SPS take off, but the LPS hate it, so I just keep PO4 less than 0.10 because I like the mixed reef look. The simple dosing of NOPOX and letting the rocks in my tank do the work of a Donovan reactor is the easiest way to go. Keep in mind, when I started this years ago my NO3 was probably around 80 and I was treating my PO4 with Lanthanum, so I dosed a lot of NOPOX and tested every day for months before the ecosystem stabilized and I could get down to only a few ml of NOPOX a day and don't even remember where my Lanthanum bottle is. Now I sometimes go weeks without testing anything other than Alkalinty. When the corals start looking bad I test everything and that's usually when I figure out that I ran out of NOPOX and replace the bottle, step up to 4ml a day for about a week. As we all know by now that there are multiple ways to get things done, and I am sure that Donovan's approach worked well for him.
May I know your tank volume, towers dimensions and are you running skimmer or Calcium reactor?
Glad to hear it works well for you. I am just making this DND for my small 40 gal tank for trial before jump to my big systems, each 800 gal for coral farming
 

Afterburner

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May I know your tank volume, towers dimensions and are you running skimmer or Calcium reactor?
Glad to hear it works well for you. I am just making this DND for my small 40 gal tank for trial before jump to my big systems, each 800 gal for coral farming
I currently have a 90 gal display corner tank (that is why my Sump is so limited in space) and a 20 gal display fuge that i made. The sump feeds both the DT and Fuge. There are about 15 small fish and two shrimp (pistol and cleaner).

In the sump I have the following:
Euro-Reef Skimmer - real old cheap one I got on craigslist but fits and seems to work
Porous brick under skimmer (about 8"x6"x1.5")
Heater
Roller Mat
ATO - home made
CO2 Scrubber - home made
Algae Scrubber - Santa Monica Drop
Return pump (two, one for DT and one for Fuge)

I used to be much better at maintenance, so you will see that it needs a good cleaning. The display fuge houses a couple of breeding cardinalfish because I break too many corals trying to catch the male when his mouth is full of eggs.

I am currently dosing (per day)
2ml NOPOX
58ml each of ALK and Calcium ESV B-Ionic two part
4.5ml B-ionic Transition Elements

I tested this morning, and my nitrates are at 2ppm (exactly where I want them).

I sometimes add some Aquavitro Fuel for Reefs, but I almost never remember so a big bottle has lasted years in my fridge. I feed about one to two cubes of mysis a day and a pinch of flakes or pellets. used to spot feed the corals reef roids, but ran out a long time ago, so I figure the fish poop is feeding them fine. I also dosed copious amounts of plankton in the past, but I had to clean out the skimmer too often, so I ended that about 6 months ago with no noticeable changes. I do ICP testing about every 6 months and have noticed that I always have to add Vanadium and Manganese, so now I just add a little every few months, but the ICP always asks me to add the same amount anyway. I do water changes when I remember, but average about every 3 weeks and do about 15%.



On a side note, I am convinced that the waving hands and Xenia in my fuge help out. The reason I think this is because of an experiment I have running on my 8gal Nano tank. I have not done a water change in years, and I only test the salinity about every few months (it is usually way high, so I just scoop some water out and let the ATO refill with RODI water till the salinity is near correct). I let Green Hair Algae grow into big clumps and pull it out every once in a while (to act like an algae scrubber). I use this tank to house a fish or two that I am planning to trade, and other frags (like that gorgonia that was stung almost to death in my DT). The amount and health of the hands and Xenia even when water conditions are sub optimal makes me think that they are somehow cleaning the water since the resident Montipora Capricornus and other SPS frags do fine when I have some on the rack. I know this is a weird experiment.
 

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wmb0003

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I have read this entire thread and recently set up a DND( RIP Donovan.) I used 4” PVC about 27” tall, however I used a “Y fitting” instead of “U shaped” that most people used just because I had some space constraints. I tied the feed line to my return pump. I just set it up yesterday but my only concern now is, when I turn my return pump off for feeding(1 time per day for about 15 min), my output line goes empty and lets air inside the anerobic side, is this a concern? Or should I not worry about it since it is such a short amount of time?

I thought about adding a “p trap” to the output like used in plumbing of sinks/toilets. Is this necessary or am I over thinking it?
 

CNDReef

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I wouldn’t run it off of the return pump for a lot of reasons, harder to tune, the off periods with feeding…You really don’t need any large pump feeding it, actually a $10-20 will do a better job since the flow is already low on it.
 

wmb0003

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I wouldn’t run it off of the return pump for a lot of reasons, harder to tune, the off periods with feeding…You really don’t need any large pump feeding it, actually a $10-20 will do a better job since the flow is already low on it.
Yeah, I have another pump I could tie it in to but it is a larger diameter hose, I tied it into the return pump because I already have it teed off and the flow reduced down to run gfo reactor; I teed a 1/4” line off of it so dialing in the flow isn’t really an issue. Just more concerned with shutting it off for feedings. I saw several other people that tied it off overflow or return manifold so I wonder if they had problems or if they didn’t turn off return for feeding.
 

bezj

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Hi. Bit of an update. Even with medium balls/rings within x2 reactors joined by air line, whilst running at a 5-10 ppm nitrates level, the air line tubing is too small. Kept clogging and was unable to push enough water through when needed.

replaced with 1/2 inch/13mm tubing with tap from return pump.

Works like a dream now but still fine tuning!

Has anyone experienced increasing alkalinity levels even when you stop dosing?

research suggests it’s as a result of low PH levels turning sand into base minerals = calcium/alkalinity.

could this be happening to the filter media?
 

KenO

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Hopefully you guys are still out there to answer some questions.

I have an infloor concrete sump on my setup. The concrete sump is 48" deep and the water level is at 24". Please look at the attached drawing for reference to the questions.

My plan is to make the twin towers two different heights. The left or input side would be higher than the right or output side. The height of the right side would dictate the level of the water in both sides.

Are caps necessary? Hear me out. If my media is below the height of the water on both sides, doesn't the water act as a cap? As water enters on the left/input side the same amount of water will overflow the right/output side. The media will not be exposed to the air. Any nitrogen gas that is generated on either side will just bubble to the surface and gas off.

One of the reasons I was wanting to eliminate the caps is so that I could use a filter sock to filter the incoming water on the input side. I will be able to use gravity to feed water into the unit and I would prefer to filter that water when it comes out of the gravity feed line vs filtering before it goes in. This was the water flow would stay more consistent.

The image says 3" for the pipe and fittings. Most likely I will build a 4" unit.

Thanks
Ken

IMG_6886.jpeg
 

DancingWind

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Hopefully you guys are still out there to answer some questions.

I have an infloor concrete sump on my setup. The concrete sump is 48" deep and the water level is at 24". Please look at the attached drawing for reference to the questions.

My plan is to make the twin towers two different heights. The left or input side would be higher than the right or output side. The height of the right side would dictate the level of the water in both sides.

Are caps necessary? Hear me out. If my media is below the height of the water on both sides, doesn't the water act as a cap? As water enters on the left/input side the same amount of water will overflow the right/output side. The media will not be exposed to the air. Any nitrogen gas that is generated on either side will just bubble to the surface and gas off.

One of the reasons I was wanting to eliminate the caps is so that I could use a filter sock to filter the incoming water on the input side. I will be able to use gravity to feed water into the unit and I would prefer to filter that water when it comes out of the gravity feed line vs filtering before it goes in. This was the water flow would stay more consistent.

The image says 3" for the pipe and fittings. Most likely I will build a 4" unit.

Thanks
Ken

IMG_6886.jpeg
U need caps to stop gas exchange - the idea is to create an anoxic zone. U use caps and slow flow to create anoxic zone - hence sock is pointless
 

KenO

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U need caps to stop gas exchange - the idea is to create an anoxic zone. U use caps and slow flow to create anoxic zone - hence sock is pointless
I understand that I want to create a place for anaerobic bacteria. I have a remote DSB that just has water as a cap and it creates the right conditions for the process. In essence what this device is creating is a DSB in a tube isn't it?Plus it's allowing for better water movement through the media vs a DSB.

Even with a cap on the tubes oxygen is getting into the device on the left side as water enters. As the oxygenated water, NO3 and carbon source filters down aerobic bacteria will consume the oxygen in the water. Once that happens the environment supports anaerobic bacteria which consumes oxygen from the NO3 releasing nitrogen gas. The flow is from the input to the output so I'm missing how the oxygen would be getting in without the caps since it is already getting in. What am I missing?
 

DancingWind

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the flow
I understand that I want to create a place for anaerobic bacteria. I have a remote DSB that just has water as a cap and it creates the right conditions for the process. In essence what this device is creating is a DSB in a tube isn't it?Plus it's allowing for better water movement through the media vs a DSB.

Even with a cap on the tubes oxygen is getting into the device on the left side as water enters. As the oxygenated water, NO3 and carbon source filters down aerobic bacteria will consume the oxygen in the water. Once that happens the environment supports anaerobic bacteria which consumes oxygen from the NO3 releasing nitrogen gas. The flow is from the input to the output so I'm missing how the oxygen would be getting in without the caps since it is already getting in. What am I missing?
the flow is very slow so there wil lbe exchange of gas at the water surface - at the output we dont put a empty pout but a long tube facing down.
sure if u have a long enough pipe you will have enough anoxic volume to process no3 - caps maximize this anoxic region.
Most of us are putting this pipe in sump so the length of the pipe is constrained.
 

KenO

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the flow

the flow is very slow so there wil lbe exchange of gas at the water surface - at the output we dont put a empty pout but a long tube facing down.
sure if u have a long enough pipe you will have enough anoxic volume to process no3 - caps maximize this anoxic region.
Most of us are putting this pipe in sump so the length of the pipe is constrained.
Well technically mine will be in a sump, but I have lots of airspace above it. I was thinking I could have a 6" deep "water cap" over the media.
I figure why not try it and see if it works. If not, it would be easy to add a couple of caps on top.
 

Lasse

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To keep it anaerobic with or without cap may be no problem - just a little more DOC (dissolved organic carbon) fix the problem. However - you may get a smell problem without caps.

Sincerely Lasse
 

KenO

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To keep it anaerobic with or without cap may be no problem - just a little more DOC (dissolved organic carbon) fix the problem. However - you may get a smell problem without caps.

Sincerely Lasse
Thanks Lasse, I was wondering about that myself. If it does, the caps will go on.
 

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