Powder brown with ick

[zenttoriz]

Hello, I’ve had this powder brown for over 2 year in my frag tank with no issues. He recently has developed what looks to be ick, he is easy to catch so I put him in a container to view better. The only cause I could see was I recently added a captive bred Molly miller blenny, which doesn’t have ick but maybe brought it in. The powder brown still eats like crazy and has had no change in behavior, I’ve been noticing these dots for about a week or so now. I have the facilities to set a qt tank but I’m wondering if it’s even worth it, no other fish in the tank has ick and I’ve been seeing online some people don’t even treat ick in certain situations.

 

[Tamberav]

Are the spots growing in number? If so, I would treat. Powder tangs are very susceptible to this parasite and can perish. You would need to treat the blenny as well though and let the tank run without fish for 45 days at 82 degrees.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello, I’ve had this powder brown for over 2 year in my frag tank with no issues. He recently has developed what looks to be ick, he is easy to catch so I put him in a container to view better. The only cause I could see was I recently added a captive bred Molly miller blenny, which doesn’t have ick but maybe brought it in. The powder brown still eats like crazy and has had no change in behavior, I’ve been noticing these dots for about a week or so now. I have the facilities to set a qt tank but I’m wondering if it’s even worth it, no other fish in the tank has ick and I’ve been seeing online some people don’t even treat ick in certain situations.

As ich has progressed, in which it is ich, you will have to get this fish and any others into a Separate quarantine tank and treat with coppersafe at 2.25 ppm for 30 days (no less) and monitor this level with a Hanna brand copper test kit. Additionally keep an eye on ammonia level using a reliable test kit and suggested is to add an air stone during treatment. Not treating ich will allow the parasite to continue to overtake the fish which it has already - be careful with reading what others have done and each situation is different and if bumping the temperature, I suggest 80.5 degrees as oxygen is lowered with temperature increases

 

[zenttoriz]

Are the spots growing in number? If so, I would treat. Powder tangs are very susceptible to this parasite and can perish. You would need to treat the blenny as well though and let the tank run without fish for 45 days at 82 degrees.

Yes slightly has gotten more white spots but hasn’t slowed down at all eating wise

 

[MnFish1]

Hello, I’ve had this powder brown for over 2 year in my frag tank with no issues. He recently has developed what looks to be ick, he is easy to catch so I put him in a container to view better. The only cause I could see was I recently added a captive bred Molly miller blenny, which doesn’t have ick but maybe brought it in. The powder brown still eats like crazy and has had no change in behavior, I’ve been noticing these dots for about a week or so now. I have the facilities to set a qt tank but I’m wondering if it’s even worth it, no other fish in the tank has ick and I’ve been seeing online some people don’t even treat ick in certain situations.

The reason to treat it (aside from the fact that it could kill this fish) - is that any new fish you put in your tank will be exposed as well - thus risking any new fish

 

[-JoJoReefing-]

Though ich is usually not directly killing fish, it would irritate fish to the point that the fish gets too weak and die. Definitely a lot of effort to keep ich away, at this stage qt all fish and run fishless tank for 72days; and afterwards you also need qt everything (new fish, invert, corals) coz they all could bring in ich. Powder brown and powder blue are ich magnetics; in fact all tangs are. If you dont want to really spend a lot of effort with dealing with ich in the long run, it might be better not to keep tang (or at least powder brown and powder blue); most other fish can be ok with ich.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello, I’ve had this powder brown for over 2 year in my frag tank with no issues. He recently has developed what looks to be ick, he is easy to catch so I put him in a container to view better. The only cause I could see was I recently added a captive bred Molly miller blenny, which doesn’t have ick but maybe brought it in. The powder brown still eats like crazy and has had no change in behavior, I’ve been noticing these dots for about a week or so now. I have the facilities to set a qt tank but I’m wondering if it’s even worth it, no other fish in the tank has ick and I’ve been seeing online some people don’t even treat ick in certain situations.

Yep - that’s ich. Your fish won’t show secondary symptoms at first, and the other fish may fight it off for a time. However, this parasite multiplies with geometric progression - like the leading edge of a bell curve. The fish will have a few spots, gradually increasing in number until it hits a certain level and then the population explodes, the fish gets very ill and dies.

You’ll really want to treat all of the exposed fish in a treatment tank with Coppersafe, or remove all invertebrates and run hyposalinity in your main tank.

 

[VexedTomb792]

Hello, I’ve had this powder brown for over 2 year in my frag tank with no issues. He recently has developed what looks to be ick, he is easy to catch so I put him in a container to view better. The only cause I could see was I recently added a captive bred Molly miller blenny, which doesn’t have ick but maybe brought it in. The powder brown still eats like crazy and has had no change in behavior, I’ve been noticing these dots for about a week or so now. I have the facilities to set a qt tank but I’m wondering if it’s even worth it, no other fish in the tank has ick and I’ve been seeing online some people don’t even treat ick in certain situations.

Oh dear, I fear I’m going to make myself very unpopular with this answer but I guess that’s why we are all here, so as to offer our own experiences. If I were making the decision I would proceed as follows. If the tang is still eating normally and seeming to cope with life as it normally does I would step up its feeding with top quality foods and let the fish fight it off naturally. That’s what I have always done and what my uncle always did during his 65+ years of fish keeping. Keep in mind the types of food that tangs thrive on (greens etc), step up algae intake (algae pellets, nori strips etc) along with the meaty foods (with added vitamins if possible), perform water changes slightly more often to lessen the pathogen load in the water and I’m betting your otherwise healthy fish will bounce back. Bear in mind that tangs can really eat though, you’re not just maintaining, you are feeding him up.
If however the fish is genuinely suffering and already downhill then I agree with the copper dosing in a QT tank but I’m betting it won’t be required.
Beautiful fish by the way.

 

[mmorrison55]

Did you have any recent changes or stressors that could have brought this on?

I have no proof, but I am convinced that my powder blue had ick and I never knew it. I then did a dose of coral snow and once my tank water cleared up, it must have stressed him out because he started showing spots shortly after the water cleared up. Once he had all the spots, it quickly infected the whole tank population and I started losing fish daily. I had 12-14 fish and im now down to 4. It almost would have been easier if all the fish had died. I hate to say that, but it’s true as it’s a pain to deal with different species of fish and inverts who may not tolerate copper. You almost need to have 2-4 quarantine tanks depending on your tanks livestock make up

If you can quarantine, start NOW. If not, may just need to let things take their course and live with the idea that your tank will always have ick.

It was easier for me to move my corals out of the display, so I started a hypo-salinity treatment as suggested by some of the experts on this forum. I have a few weeks remaining and then will begin to slowly increase my salinity back up to 35ppt or 1.026 SG.

Good luck. I hope your fish pull through.

 

[MnFish1]

Though ich is usually not directly killing fish, it would irritate fish to the point that the fish gets too weak and die. Definitely a lot of effort to keep ich away, at this stage qt all fish and run fishless tank for 72days; and afterwards you also need qt everything (new fish, invert, corals) coz they all could bring in ich. Powder brown and powder blue are ich magnetics; in fact all tangs are. If you dont want to really spend a lot of effort with dealing with ich in the long run, it might be better not to keep tang (or at least powder brown and powder blue); most other fish can be ok with ich.

You are not entirely correct. Ich can and will kill fish - especially in situations where there is a high stocking density and or weakened fish. Many types of tangs survive ich so - it's not correct to recommend not keeping them. If you look at studies of ich in Vietnam - some tangs are relatively resistant to other fish. If one wants to prevent ich in tangs and their other fish the best way is a QT tank. And as you said - keep any display for 6-8 weeks

 

[MnFish1]

Oh dear, I fear I’m going to make myself very unpopular with this answer but I guess that’s why we are all here, so as to offer our own experiences. If I were making the decision I would proceed as follows. If the tang is still eating normally and seeming to cope with life as it normally does I would step up its feeding with top quality foods and let the fish fight it off naturally. That’s what I have always done and what my uncle always did during his 65+ years of fish keeping. Keep in mind the types of food that tangs thrive on (greens etc), step up algae intake (algae pellets, nori strips etc) along with the meaty foods (with added vitamins if possible), perform water changes slightly more often to lessen the pathogen load in the water and I’m betting your otherwise healthy fish will bounce back. Bear in mind that tangs can really eat though, you’re not just maintaining, you are feeding him up.
If however the fish is genuinely suffering and already downhill then I agree with the copper dosing in a QT tank but I’m betting it won’t be required.
Beautiful fish by the way.

There are multiple protocols - including one for ich management in the threads above at the top of the forum, so no one is going to get mad at you:). That said - a proper quarantine with copper and prazipro takes care of more than Ich - like flukes and velvet. So - it's not a matter of the fact that Ich is not as bad as others - if you let the others in they will kill your fish. Water changes will not help with parasite loads in the water - however a low stocking density will/can help. One problem is that if the fish is suffering and going downhill, they are already likely not going to survive - even with copper.

 

[-JoJoReefing-]

You are not entirely correct. Ich can and will kill fish - especially in situations where there is a high stocking density and or weakened fish. Many types of tangs survive ich so - it's not correct to recommend not keeping them. If you look at studies of ich in Vietnam - some tangs are relatively resistant to other fish. If one wants to prevent ich in tangs and their other fish the best way is a QT tank. And as you said - keep any display for 6-8 weeks

Yeah totally agree that ich could eventually kill fish — i mean they are like mosquitoes that kills in an “indirect” manner. I know there are a lot of cases where fish get immune to ich, or periodically have ich appearing but still live happily. All depending on tank condition and individual fish health. Keeping away from tang is just something to consider, just in general ich appears worst in tang, while there are a lot of other fish to choose from in reef tanks. I have a handful tangs and i deeply know the pain to qt everything 6-8wks…..

 

[zenttoriz]

As ich has progressed, in which it is ich, you will have to get this fish and any others into a Separate quarantine tank and treat with coppersafe at 2.25 ppm for 30 days (no less) and monitor this level with a Hanna brand copper test kit. Additionally keep an eye on ammonia level using a reliable test kit and suggested is to add an air stone during treatment. Not treating ich will allow the parasite to continue to overtake the fish which it has already - be careful with reading what others have done and each situation is different and if bumping the temperature, I suggest 80.5 degrees as oxygen is lowered with temperature interesting

As ich has progressed, in which it is ich, you will have to get this fish and any others into a Separate quarantine tank and treat with coppersafe at 2.25 ppm for 30 days (no less) and monitor this level with a Hanna brand copper test kit. Additionally keep an eye on ammonia level using a reliable test kit and suggested is to add an air stone during treatment. Not treating ich will allow the parasite to continue to overtake the fish which it has already - be careful with reading what others have done and each situation is different and if bumping the temperature, I suggest 80.5 degrees as oxygen is lowered with temperature increases

Okay, I have all my fish in a 40 gallon QT tank with copper. I have it at 82 temp. How often should I water change the QT tank now?

 

[winxp_man]

Okay, I have all my fish in a 40 gallon QT tank with copper. I have it at 82 temp. How often should I water change the QT tank now?

Seachem ammonia badge. WC depends on ammonia levels, and keeping algae down. I did 25% every three days. I do have one running with 7 clowns. And didn’t need to do a WC for two weeks. Yes crazy. It I dose bacteria on a regular. It depends on how bacteria takes to the tank. The HOB filters I like are aqua clear 50 or a fluval 107 canister. Running both on separate tanks. Both are good. Then get the fish in the tank dose bacteria, have used Tim’s and Fritz Turbo 900. Both seem to do the job no problem.

But seachem ammonia badge is a must. pH I measure with Hanna pH tester.

If need be get an aeration bubbler as an extra means to get O2 in the tank if you don’t have enough surface agitation. I have a O2 tester and have not needed extra aeration, but if you don’t have a O2 tester, it’s good to have Extra aeration. Make sure to dose CP properly as stated in all other posts. Above 2.25 and below 2.50ppm.

And yes you will need to run this for 30 days. As for DT 76 is what I do. Some state 72, but any extra 4 days that Jay calls out in his writings will not hurt. And it will ensure your tank is ich free. You go this! And had to do the same with a velvet breakout. And six of the fish are tangs haha. Had a crazy operation going on for months!

 

[MnFish1]

Yeah totally agree that ich could eventually kill fish — i mean they are like mosquitoes that kills in an “indirect” manner. I know there are a lot of cases where fish get immune to ich, or periodically have ich appearing but still live happily. All depending on tank condition and individual fish health. Keeping away from tang is just something to consider, just in general ich appears worst in tang, while there are a lot of other fish to choose from in reef tanks. I have a handful tangs and i deeply know the pain to qt everything 6-8wks…..

Ich can kill directly through gill disease if the pathogen numbers are high enough in the tank - which is why millions of dollars have been spent to design a vaccine against ich in fish farming. It is impossible to know whether fish living with ich are 'happy' or not. But you're correct it does depend on individual factors - including the possibility of immunity, temperature, salinity, and the species. I do not think there is any evidence that not having a tang lessens the likelihood of fatalities from ich.

"Some genera of tangs are generally considered more susceptible to ich than others.For example, Acanthurus tangs (like Powder Blues and Achilles) are often seen as more susceptible, while Zebrasoma tangs (like Yellow Tangs) are sometimes considered more resistant"

Here is a nice summary overview of cryptocaryon from the University of FL that people may find interesting.

FA164/FA164: Cryptocaryon irritans Infections (Marine White Spot Disease) in Fish

University of Florida, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences Extension outreach is a partnership between state, federal, and county governments to provide scientific knowledge and expertise to the public. The University of Florida (UF), together with Florida A&M University (FAMU)...

edis.ifas.ufl.edu

 

[vetteguy53081]

Okay, I have all my fish in a 40 gallon QT tank with copper. I have it at 82 temp. How often should I water change the QT tank now?

Monitor with a reliable test kit and change as needed , If needed and if you are maintaining 2.25ppm as an example, mix new water at 2.25ppm level and 80.5 is my preferred increase temperature

 

[zenttoriz]

As ich has progressed, in which it is ich, you will have to get this fish and any others into a Separate quarantine tank and treat with coppersafe at 2.25 ppm for 30 days (no less) and monitor this level with a Hanna brand copper test kit. Additionally keep an eye on ammonia level using a reliable test kit and suggested is to add an air stone during treatment. Not treating ich will allow the parasite to continue to overtake the fish which it has already - be careful with reading what others have done and each situation is different and if bumping the temperature, I suggest 80.5 degrees as oxygen is lowered with temperature increases

Hello, the QT process has been working, I’m not seeing my any more ich. I do see the brown blotches on my powder tang though. Is this ich scarring ?