VanDalsenReef
Valuable Member
It's as clear as mud at this point
Pro Reef salt from Turkey
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areefer01
2500 Club Member
Interesting. I've never heard of the salt before thus me asking. You noted you already reached out via portal/contact and nothing, huh? Even from Hans?
In any case sorry to hear.
Had a Turkey box, smell, dumped it instead of using. I’m just finishing up a German box, no residue, mixes clean. It was purchased around the same time fall of last year. Each box from different retailer. Corals are fine.
I’ve been at both ends of this. My prior buckets purchased, before the TMPro issue, I intend on using.
I’ve been at both ends of this. My prior buckets purchased, before the TMPro issue, I intend on using.
As many users on R2R will already know, I try not to make responses in defense of myself on threads. I give the best information I have at the time, and do my best to help people with issues. But David @((FORDTECH)) is presenting his communications with me in a very dishonest way, and I feel the need to correct the record. I apologize if this post seems self serving. It is just meant to set the record straight.
As for the issues that David has with the salt, I did NOT "stop responding to his emails" as he has stated. I explained to him, in detail, that the Tropic Marin Store Use bags that he is using, should NOT have been sold to him in the first place by his distributor. The store use bags are only available for purchase to Tropic Marin Preferred Dealers. I checked and David's store is not on our list of Preferred Dealers. That means that even though he says that he had been a "Tropic Marin customer for life", his store had not gone through the Preferred Dealer registration or training process.
I then explained to him that the store use bags he has should be exchanged, by his distributor, for any of the Tropic Marin products other than store use ones. I also explained that this has nothing to do with the facility located in Turkey. The exchange should happen due to him being sold a product he just should not have access to. If David feels that he is "sitting on $2500 worth of salt that Lou said has no problem" ,that is his own fault for not pursuing the exchange I was trying to facilitate for him.
There may be many comments about this post. David might respond with some comments as well. I will not turn this into a "he said / he said" nonsensical discussion. I just wanted to state the background on this clearly and truthfully. Thanks for reading through this.
In David's first email to me he did not state that he was a store manager. I read emails very carefully and respond as best as I can. In fact, in a follow up email to me, once we established that he was a store manager, he said "I think we have a huge miscommunication here. I apologize for not identifying myself as the manager of Total Pets Plus in my original email." I then understood that he was emailing from a store.
As for the issues that David has with the salt, I did NOT "stop responding to his emails" as he has stated. I explained to him, in detail, that the Tropic Marin Store Use bags that he is using, should NOT have been sold to him in the first place by his distributor. The store use bags are only available for purchase to Tropic Marin Preferred Dealers. I checked and David's store is not on our list of Preferred Dealers. That means that even though he says that he had been a "Tropic Marin customer for life", his store had not gone through the Preferred Dealer registration or training process.
I then explained to him that the store use bags he has should be exchanged, by his distributor, for any of the Tropic Marin products other than store use ones. I also explained that this has nothing to do with the facility located in Turkey. The exchange should happen due to him being sold a product he just should not have access to. If David feels that he is "sitting on $2500 worth of salt that Lou said has no problem" ,that is his own fault for not pursuing the exchange I was trying to facilitate for him.
There may be many comments about this post. David might respond with some comments as well. I will not turn this into a "he said / he said" nonsensical discussion. I just wanted to state the background on this clearly and truthfully. Thanks for reading through this.
FishyFishFish
Valuable Member
Which is all well and good, but did the product (that he was sold by one of your distributors) have a problem or not?
This is another deflection of the issue IMO. Circumvent answering the question about the quality of the product, by making this about the supply chain (and the fact that a TM distributor apparently sold him a product that they shouldn’t have).
I find it interesting what posts TM choose to reply to, and which ones they ignore.
This is another deflection of the issue IMO. Circumvent answering the question about the quality of the product, by making this about the supply chain (and the fact that a TM distributor apparently sold him a product that they shouldn’t have).
I find it interesting what posts TM choose to reply to, and which ones they ignore.
areefer01
2500 Club Member
If there isn't anything new to reply do you want them to just make something up?
They haven't found anything. Nothing. Nadda. Zilch. If that is the case then it falls to the hobbyist to decide if they want to use or buy the salt or move to another product. It really is that simple.
FishyFishFish
Valuable Member
Why would I want them to make something up?
For example, no response to this thread:
www.reef2reef.com
But they choose to ‘blame’ a store customer here (for having apparently sold him something they shouldn’t have) whilst avoiding the fundamental question as to why his salt wasn’t mixing clear.
If they don’t want to respond to concerns about the salt, then why did they feel the need to defend themselves on this issue (which also appears to have been their fault).
There have been several other threads with questions that have gone unanswered. For example, I have seen no reply to the question as to how they can be so sure that there is no problem with the German salt if the raw materials are the same as those used in the Turkish facility.
Maybe honesty is too risky for their business.
For example, no response to this thread:
Tropic Marin salt from Germany mixed brown
And here I thought we were past this. So what's everyone's "go to" replacement salt? Instant Ocean Reef Crystals? Red Sea Blue Bucket? I really like how Tropic Marin Pro Reef mixed but I'm almost out of the German (pre-issue) salt. I feel you man I was a big fan of TM salt but until they can...
www.reef2reef.com
But they choose to ‘blame’ a store customer here (for having apparently sold him something they shouldn’t have) whilst avoiding the fundamental question as to why his salt wasn’t mixing clear.
If they don’t want to respond to concerns about the salt, then why did they feel the need to defend themselves on this issue (which also appears to have been their fault).
There have been several other threads with questions that have gone unanswered. For example, I have seen no reply to the question as to how they can be so sure that there is no problem with the German salt if the raw materials are the same as those used in the Turkish facility.
Maybe honesty is too risky for their business.
blaxsun
10K Club member
I'm not necessarily expecting a response. I'd just like to know if this is an isolated incident or is something that's going to lead to another "Turkeygate" so I can either wait for German Tropic Marin salt to show up or switch to something else.
VanDalsenReef
Valuable Member
I really don't know what people are expecting. The corals they lost is terrible but this hobby isn't big enough and there isn't enough data to even make legal case where you can receive money. You are able to return any Turkish salt for German. That's really all they can do.
VanDalsenReef
Valuable Member
Isolated would be the problem. No salt is perfect. No product is perfect.
VanDalsenReef
Valuable Member
Isolated isn't enough to do anything
areefer01
2500 Club Member
Why would I want them to make something up?
For example, no response to this thread:
Tropic Marin salt from Germany mixed brown
And here I thought we were past this. So what's everyone's "go to" replacement salt? Instant Ocean Reef Crystals? Red Sea Blue Bucket? I really like how Tropic Marin Pro Reef mixed but I'm almost out of the German (pre-issue) salt. I feel you man I was a big fan of TM salt but until they can...
But they choose to ‘blame’ a store customer here (for having apparently sold him something they shouldn’t have) whilst avoiding the fundamental question as to why his salt wasn’t mixing clear.
If they don’t want to respond to concerns about the salt, then why did they feel the need to defend themselves on this issue (which also appears to have been their fault).
There have been several other threads with questions that have gone unanswered. For example, I have seen no reply to the question as to how they can be so sure that there is no problem with the German salt if the raw materials are the same as those used in the Turkish facility.
Maybe honesty is too risky for their business.
Well they have responded. Hobbyist do not like the answer. They have also offered refunds for both open and closed containers of salt mixes from Turkey. So again what else should they do?
Also note there are some people here, and elsewhere, who have used complete buckets of salt from Turkey without any residue, smell, or other issues. And I'm one who didn't notice anything different with my bucket from Turkey.
Here is my last bucket of Pro Reef and I have zero issues to report other than I sent the info to Tropic Marin in case it helps them in their data.
FishyFishFish
Valuable Member
They could release some data on how isolated these issues are. If they are indeed isolated then it would go a long way to improving customer confidence.
Without any more information, the only thing people have to go on is that they have ceased production from the Turkey plant. I assume that would have been extremely costly for them to do, so why would they have done that if the issues were isolated.
It’s not about whether they have offered to swap Turkish salt for German salt; it’s about brand confidence.
I have been honest all along and said that I don’t use TM salt. I do, however, use AFR and my current batch will be my last.
Without any more information, the only thing people have to go on is that they have ceased production from the Turkey plant. I assume that would have been extremely costly for them to do, so why would they have done that if the issues were isolated.
It’s not about whether they have offered to swap Turkish salt for German salt; it’s about brand confidence.
I have been honest all along and said that I don’t use TM salt. I do, however, use AFR and my current batch will be my last.
VanDalsenReef
Valuable Member
I'm in the same boat. Never a single issueWell they have responded. Hobbyist do not like the answer. They have also offered refunds for both open and closed containers of salt mixes from Turkey. So again what else should they do?
Also note there are some people here, and elsewhere, who have used complete buckets of salt from Turkey without any residue, smell, or other issues. And I'm one who didn't notice anything different with my bucket from Turkey.
Here is my last bucket of Pro Reef and I have zero issues to report other than I sent the info to Tropic Marin in case it helps them in their data.
areefer01
2500 Club Member
It is isolated to Pro Reef manufactured in Turkey. They have conducted an internal assessment and also hired outside. They have said they found nothing outside the comment made about clay. Please don't quote me on the exact finding but Lou made that comment. It is in one of the threads here.
They stopped it because that is the source. Again Lou / Tropic Marin has stated it was isolated to Turkey. Hobbyists are now reporting similar issues from buckets supplied from Germany also. I can't speak for Tropic Marin but I'd wager they are also assessing that to be safe.
That is my point about it is now up to the hobbyist to decide. You either use their product(s) or you don't and move on. But that has nothing to do with Tropic Marin. They have provided information / updates even though hobbyist may not agree.
AFR has nothing to do with the salt mix. Sounds like maybe you are upset or frustrated with Tropic Marin and will move business elsewhere. Again that is up to the hobbyist. AFR is a great product though (my opinion as a user of it).
VanDalsenReef
Valuable Member
Seems that a lot of people are just angry (which is understandable) I would be as well. But tropic marin has done all they should. It would be dumb for them to pay for the corals or live stock lost when those prices fluctuate between states and countries. They gave an answer but it wont ever be enough for some.
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