Problems cycling with Dr Tim's One and only

[ReefingIsMyTherapy]

I'm on Day 7 of Dr Tim's cycle but had to skip the ammonia drops on day six because ammonia is not going down.

Tank: 100g DT + 35g sump, so 135g total system.
Using RedSea Marine care kit.
CaribSea life rock
CaribSea live sand

I calculated 100g total for my cycle, therefore a full dose of ammonia would be 400 drops (4 per gallon as indicated in the bottle)

I've seen nitrites going up each day, but ammonia has stayed at 2 (maybe it's higher than that but my kit won't read further than that).

These are my readings so far:

Day 1: Added drops (as mentioned, I used live sand, therefore I added half the dose, 200 drops, as indicated in the instructions)
Day 2: Ammonia 0.8 Nitrites 0.05
Day 3: Added drops (instructions don't indicate whether I should add 1/2 of the recommend amount, so I added the full dose, 400 drops).
Day 4: Ammonia 2 Nitrites 0.2
Day 5: Ammonia 2 Nitrites 0.5
Day 6: Ammonia 2 Nitrites 1. Didn't add ammonia
Day 7: Ammonia 2 Nitrites 1

Given that I already skipped the drops on day 6, and that ammonia is still pretty high, I assume I'll end up with an "extended" cycle. However, the instructions do not say anything about that possible scenario, which seems to happen often to others.

According to the instructions, I should add fish on day 9, but for obvious reasons I won't. When would it be OK to add drops again to make sure the tank is cycled? Until my kit reads 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites? If so, should I add 4 drops per gallon?

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Don't add any more ammonia. It's been a while, but I don't think you were suppose to dose ammonia every day. You should have only dosed ammonia to 2ppm and then waited until it dropped to zero and NO2 rose and dropped. Then you could dose again and see if your system could process the ammonia in 24 hours. If so, then it is ready for fish.

Right now, you need to let that ammonia drop and see a reduction in NO2. Depending on the brand of test kit you are using, your ammonia reading could be as high as 0.25ppm and still be at 0ppm.

If you were adding ammonia every day for the first 5 days, and the ammonia stayed at 2ppm, either your tank is processing some of the ammonia, or you have a testing problem. Get someone else to confirm your ammonia levels and then wait until ammonia comes down or do a large water change to bring it down to 1ppm or less. and then wait.

 

[LeftyReefer]

Don't add any more ammonia until the tank measure 0 ammonia.
At that point, it would probably be fine to add some fish.. but if you wan to be extra sure, you can do another round of ammonia drops and then wait for it to clear again... if it clears the second time in 24 hours, you are ready for fish (slowly!).

 

[brandon429]

You need to add fish food ground up, wait a total of fifteen days, you're cycled, and can't not be cycled and the cheap non digital test kits may or may not agree, but seneye would. You don't need seneye because this above is certain to cycle within fifteen days. Add fish food for carbon, no more ammonia, courtesy of dr reefs bottle bac thread which states all that above.

Recap: follow the plan above, if your cheap non digital ammonia test doesn't agree its wrong, you are cycled we are out to page thirty now on another thread doing these steps, it's a testless cycling thread randomly spot checked by seneye.


If you do a search on your test kit you'll see it misreading in twenty thousand pages of search returns. That's how you know it's cheap along with the fact it costs 12$

 

[IslandLifeReef]

You need to add fish food ground up, wait a total of fifteen days, you're cycled, and can't not be cycled and the cheap non digital test kits may or may not agree, but seneye would. You don't need seneye because this above is certain to cycle within fifteen days. Add fish food for carbon, no more ammonia, courtesy of dr reefs bottle bac thread which states all that above.

Recap: follow the plan above, if your cheap non digital ammonia test doesn't agree its wrong, you are cycled we are out to page thirty now on another thread doing these steps, it's a testless cycling thread randomly spot checked by seneye.


If you do a search on your test kit you'll see it misreading in twenty thousand pages of search returns. That's how you know it's cheap along with the fact it costs 12$

@brandon429, the OP already has dosed ammonia and added bacteria. The problem is he may have added too much ammonia. He has already reached the limit of his test kit for ammonia, greater than 2ppm.

I think that the OP should wait until ammonia drops to 1ppm or less before he does anything else, unless he wants to do a water change to reduce the ammonia.

 

[LeftyReefer]

Agreed. Don't add any more ammonia or fish food until the current ammonia level in the tank drops.
you already have plenty of food (ammonia) for the bacteria to utilize... now you just need a little time/patience.

 

[brandon429]

Im going off a 100% track record on 15 30 page threads on cycling

add the fish food, do the wait, change some water, guaranteed. this test level stated isn't correct, its not seneye, so its horse-shoeing.

 

[brandon429]

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...

www.reef2reef.com

all advice to this op comes from that thread. every entrant there was supposedly a noncompliant cycle at the start. we rely on test kits 0% there, its a timing based cycling thread. It'd be better if folks actually quit posting pics of test kits, but they won't, so we comment lightly on the kits and focus heavily on the proofing after the assigned start date (100% of cycles there got a pre assigned start date to prevent the classic open ended wait cycle)

for pages we show bad test reads turned into fish carrying reefs, that's one of ten or so threads doing the same thing over and over. non digital ammonia testing is the problem, not the actual cycle, on seneye this aquarium would pass right now without a wait (see page one, post #2, first link, api vs seneye where api is pegged green for ten days after seneye correctly shows bottle bac working fine day 1)

this example:

New Cycle - Seneye vs API

Hello All, Have just started to cycle a new DD ReefPro 900. Am using Fritzzyme Fishless food and Turbo Start and am 2 days in. I have dosed twice with Fishless food on the back of the seneye readings which are as follows: But the API result seems to be showing a different story. I`ve seen a...

www.reef2reef.com

the op here is operating off a misread, its not a problem with dr tims. its the classic nh4 report vs nh3, there could be Prime used and undisclosed, the test adulterants never end when dealing in non digital assessments. I have threads where reefs 1-2 years old report these levels above falsely.

we'll fix that by overshooting the wait time based on patterns galore.

if fish food goes in today, the assigned start date for this reef is the 18th and it'll carry fish by then. do the big water change as we've done, and you're set, as a testless cycle. how are we doing on assigned start dates above? half way good, or perfect?

 

[nereefpat]

I agree with not adding any more ammonia or food and waiting for ammonia levels to drop to near zero. No need to ever add any more food or ammonia before livestock is added.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Im going off a 100% track record on 15 30 page threads on cycling

add the fish food, do the wait, change some water, guaranteed. this test level stated isn't correct, its not seneye, so its horse-shoeing.

@brandon429, the OP stated that within 3 days he had already dosed at least 3ppm of ammonia, if not more. This was a known quantity, not just based off of a test kit.

 

[brandon429]

We are either dealing in fully new cycling details here, or details that come from years of readable threads such as above where all the kits and tanks are like this one.


if its brand new issue, then we're in new uncharted territory. if its a pattern we've already been dealing with above, then the 18th after fish food today is his date. and, if he owned seneye, none of that would be needed as the tank would be ready now - directly linked above where api was near solid green but the real nh3 on a benchmarked seneye from a running reef was this: .004 nh3 which is safe. putting all stock in non digital test kits all the time is the issue here for the umpires

not having an independent means to separate misreads from real accurate readings is the issue. not pulling assessments off work threads is the issue, and treating cycles as if they stall is the issue.

 

[brandon429]

I'll believe a dead bottle of bac exists to stop a cycle in a reef tank as soon as someone cannot carry fish on the assigned date, but they keep panning out.

seneye spot checks of our assigned start dates, keep panning out over and over and over. the fish food plus the extra wait + the water change on the 18th is simply to shore up any rare variables that may present. it works every single time.

a good read for the umpires here would be Dr Reefs bottle bac thread that studies deposition and ready dates and discusses why fish food is a cycle booster. in the rare case the Op used old ammonium chloride dosing instructions that caused them to input 2x the usual dose of ammonia, the ending water change handles all that. the fish food speed-deposits the bacteria to remove any doubt in this coming week. works like clockwork, I hope he tests the assigned start date so we can get another example of an unstuck testless cycle on file.


*use pre quarantined fish, the killer of fish on this site or any other site isn't bad cycles its fish disease and mcdonald's level feeding in a scary new all white tank, three months after adding them. see the disease forum for ideal methods to prevent fish loss here on the assigned start date.

 

[Reefahholic]

You don’t add ammonia if ammonia and nitrite are above 1 ppm.

• Day 1 – dose ammonia to 2 ppm ammonia-nitrogen [NH3-N] using our ammonium chloride (1 drop per gallon [After Nov 2016 when using DrTim’s ammonium chloride use 4 drops per gallon]) [NOTE: do not expect your test kit to exactly read 2 ppm and it is not critical to get exactly 2 ppm. The key is to not add too much ammonia]. If using DrTim’s Aquatics One & Only Live Nitrifying bacteria add it now (turn skimmer, UV and ozone off and remove filter socks for 48 hours).
• Day 2 – Measure ammonia and nitrite.
• Day 3 – If ammonia and nitrite are below 1 ppm add more ammonia: four drops of our ammonium chloride per gallon (check the label).
• Days 4 & 5 – Measure ammonia and nitrite.
• Day 6 – If ammonia and nitrite are below 1 ppm add 2 ppm ammonia. Four drops of our ammonium chloride per gallon. [NOTE: since you have added the One & Only your ammonia kit will not read 2 ppm and DO NOT continue adding ammonia trying to get to 2 ppm – just add 2 ppm ammonia (4 drops per gallon of our ammonium chloride) and carry-on.
• Days 7 & 8 – Measure ammonia and nitrite. On the first measurement day (Day 2, 4, 5, 7 or 8) that BOTH ammonia and nitrite are both below 0.5 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N) your tank is close to being cycled.
• Now start to measure ammonia and nitrite every day.
• When BOTH ammonia and nitrite are below 0.2 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N), add another 2 ppm ammonia.
• Continue to measure every day. When you can add 2 ppm ammonia and BOTHammonia and nitrite are below 0.2 ppm (NH3-N or NO2-N) the next day your tank is cycled – congrats! You’re done!
• Do a partial water change and add some fish.

Tips and Troubleshooting:

• IMPORTANT – Do not let the ammonia OR nitrite concentration get above 5 ppm.
• NOTE – As of November 2016 DrTim’s changed their ammonium chloride solution and you use 4 drops per gallon instead of 1 drop per gallon. Read the label on the bottle you have and follow the directions on the bottle.
• If either ammonia or nitrite concentration get above 5 ppm, do water changes to lower the concentration.
• Do not let the pH drop below 7. If it does, do a partial water change to bring the pH back up.
• Do not add ammonia removers to bind the ammonia – overdosing with these products will just increase the cycling time.
• You do not have to add ammonia everyday – the bacteria do not have to be fed every day. Adding ammonia everyday will results in a sky-high nitrite reading and slow the cycling process.
• Is your tank bare-bottom? – if your tank does not have substrate (gravel or crushed coral) on the bottom this is called a bare-bottom tank and they take longer to cycle because there is not very much substrate for the bacteria to adhere to. If you are setting-up a quarantine tank and do not want to use a traditional substrate consider adding some inert glass rock or marbles or some other non-calcium-based media to the tank bottom. This will help cycle the tank faster.

 

[brandon429]

none of that is required to cycle 200 reef tanks and have them ready available for inspection, its a fear relay but not a cycling relay. old cycling science wants us doubting that some minor change in water status has killed original bac, that way we buy more.


notice a trend: a link with 200 cycles just like this one to consider. where does the win pattern exist in this thread


*take all the scary stuff advised on cycles, aim it to fish disease, and that too will match hundreds of searchable links and earnestly help the Op attain a ready reef. the cycle doubt redirects away from disease preps, using non seneye gear, in a false stall. work threads using other people's reefs with unsolicited unmodified assessments after the fact found those trends.

 

[Reefahholic]

I'm on Day 7 of Dr Tim's cycle but had to skip the ammonia drops on day six because ammonia is not going down.

Tank: 100g DT + 35g sump, so 135g total system.
Using RedSea Marine care kit.
CaribSea life rock
CaribSea live sand

I calculated 100g total for my cycle, therefore a full dose of ammonia would be 400 drops (4 per gallon as indicated in the bottle)

I've seen nitrites going up each day, but ammonia has stayed at 2 (maybe it's higher than that but my kit won't read further than that).

These are my readings so far:

Day 1: Added drops (as mentioned, I used live sand, therefore I added half the dose, 200 drops, as indicated in the instructions)
Day 2: Ammonia 0.8 Nitrites 0.05
Day 3: Added drops (instructions don't indicate whether I should add 1/2 of the recommend amount, so I added the full dose, 400 drops).
Day 4: Ammonia 2 Nitrites 0.2
Day 5: Ammonia 2 Nitrites 0.5
Day 6: Ammonia 2 Nitrites 1. Didn't add ammonia
Day 7: Ammonia 2 Nitrites 1

Given that I already skipped the drops on day 6, and that ammonia is still pretty high, I assume I'll end up with an "extended" cycle. However, the instructions do not say anything about that possible scenario, which seems to happen often to others.

According to the instructions, I should add fish on day 9, but for obvious reasons I won't. When would it be OK to add drops again to make sure the tank is cycled? Until my kit reads 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites? If so, should I add 4 drops per gallon?

Thanks in advance for the help!

You messed up on day 4,5,&7 where you added ammonia. Day 6 was ok. But…not to worry, it will eventually come down on it’s on. You just need to wait longer.

 

[LeftyReefer]

I'm not even sure what Brandon is arguing about at this point.

There is plenty of ammonia in the tank to feed the bacteria already in the tank. Don't add more and just wait.

 

[brandon429]

eaudecharque


If you want the open ended wait till february, you can take that option. if you want to be ready on Jan 18th, you can take that option, your cycle is now narrowed down to a very simple choice. theres no harm in waiting weeks and weeks and weeks after paying for 5 day bottle bac if you want to do that, just be reading up on fish disease and implement the controls at the end.

if you elect to do the massive wait out of fear based cycling, and skip preps, thats fish doom and begs the question as to why any wait was chosen.

make sure you implement fish disease preps that come from the stickies in the fish disease forum however you choose to handle your start date/close cycle date.

 

[brandon429]

I promise I didn't make the thread above to anger cycle umpire peers. we did it to address the single biggest cause of fish loss on this site, or any site, and its disease due to skipping all preps and adding in fish store fish regardless of how people choose to cycle. the advent of seneye testing feedback in thousands of reefs posted online for nh3 patterning (and ready carry dates) has moved up the cycling times-- people can now download songs in 3 seconds vs 33 mins, things progress.

a secondary reason for creating the cycling thread above was to challenge cycling peers to do the same and get some degree of consistency we can reflect upon using their particular favorite means.

 

[ReefingIsMyTherapy]

Don't add any more ammonia. It's been a while, but I don't think you were suppose to dose ammonia every day. You should have only dosed ammonia to 2ppm and then waited until it dropped to zero and NO2 rose and dropped. Then you could dose again and see if your system could process the ammonia in 24 hours. If so, then it is ready for fish.

Right now, you need to let that ammonia drop and see a reduction in NO2. Depending on the brand of test kit you are using, your ammonia reading could be as high as 0.25ppm and still be at 0ppm.

If you were adding ammonia every day for the first 5 days, and the ammonia stayed at 2ppm, either your tank is processing some of the ammonia, or you have a testing problem. Get someone else to confirm your ammonia levels and then wait until ammonia comes down or do a large water change to bring it down to 1ppm or less. and then wait.

Thanks for the quick response. I only added ammonia on day 1 and on day 3. The rest of the days I've been simply taking water samples and measuring the levels. On day one, I added just half the dose (200 drops in my case) and on day 3 I added full dose (400 drops in my case).

The part of the process that I'm struggling with the most is the amount of ammonia that I should use. I've seen other threads were people have complained about overdosing and it seems thay 4 drops is way too much.

 

[ReefingIsMyTherapy]

You messed up on day 4,5,&7 where you added ammonia. Day 6 was ok. But…not to worry, it will eventually come down on it’s on. You just need to wait longer.

Maybe the wording in my post was not clear, and I apologize for that. I added ammonia ONLY on day 1 and 3. Day 1 half dose (because my tank has live sand) and full dose on day 3. No additional ammonia has been added.