Prorocentrum Dinos - Beat in less than 2-weeks

[ryshark]

Here is what worked for me, I wouldn't say my case was severe yet, but they were spreading all over my tank. On the microscope I already had a good amount of diatoms and could clearly see prorocentrum dinos in my slides. I think you can use this same plan of attack for Amphidinium since they are similar in the fact they don't all leave at night into the water column and then come back the next lighting photoperiod.

I have a 120-gallon tank 100-gallons total water.
I had and still have several happy / healthy acro frags and a healthy hammer coral.

SILICATES
I used Water Glass 41%. Dosed 2ppm worth for initial dose and then 0.5ppm - 1ppm daily. This for my total water volume was .5ml to 1ml of Water Glass daily mixed well with RODI water. This feeds diatoms which can out-compete the dinos.

NITRATES
I dosed NeoNitro to get me up to 3ppm-5ppm and keep it there. I dosed 5-caps/25ml per day. Test with Salifert or Hanna Checker. Ideal range being 50x to 100x your phosphate.

PHOSPHATE
Dosed NeoPhos to stay between 0.05 to 0.10+. I dosed 1-2 caps/5ml-10ml per day. Switched from Hanna checker to Salifert test kit because I heard that when dosing Silicates that the Hanna Checker is not accurate.

BACTERIA
Dosed MB7 daily at the full strength according to the bottles directions for a high nutrient tank. I dosed 4-caps/20ml per day. This will lower your PO4 and NO3 so another reason why I daily dosed them. Turned Skimmer off for around 4-hours.

PHYTOPLANKTON
I daily dosed 20ml per day of Reef Nutrition PhytoFeast LIVE. Super concentrated and live. I dosed 10ml first thing in the morning and 10ml before bed.

COPEPODS
Bought more pods from Algae Barn, I got the 5280 pod which I believe was a combination of Apocyclops, Tigri and Tisbee pods.

LIGHTING
Reduced main photoperiod to 6-hours with mostly blue lights. Cut down white lights to only 2-hours.
Keep XHO strip on for 10-hours.

GAC
Didn't use any. My snails didn't seem to be dying and I read that GAC can lower trace elements which in turn helps the dinos.

BIODIVERSITY
Bought Live Reef Sand from Aquabiomics. In all honesty, by the time this sand came back in stock and arrived at my house, I was already winning the battle against dinos.

PROTEIN SKIMMER
Switched to dry skimming

FILTER FLOSS / FILTER SOCK
24/7 and changed out whenever necessary.

No Water Changes

No UV Sterilizer (for this type of dinos)

No Blackout Period

 

[Lavey29]

Seems like a good common sense reactive approach. You need to focus on the source of your dinos which is probably bottomed out nitrates and phosphate and ensure that these parameters stay consistent in the proper range set.

 

[ryshark]

Seems like a good common sense reactive approach. You need to focus on the source of your dinos which is probably bottomed out nitrates and phosphate and ensure that these parameters stay consistent in the proper range set.

Yes, of course.
Since dinos seem to be a fairly common issue in the reefing community, I posted this thread hoping it could help someone else who also needs to be reactive after its already too late and dinos have already appeared. In particular, Prorocentrum Dinos.

In an effort to keep the dinos from coming back, I'm planning to keep:

-PO4 between .05 - .10
-NO3 between 5-10

-Dosing MB7 once per week
-Dosing Live Phyto daily
-Dosing SpongExcel daily

 

[saltyhog]

That's a great description of exactly what to do for Prorocentrum, LCA and SCA! Not everyone will have as quick of a turn around as you did but it's certainly possible!

 

[ryshark]

That's a great description of exactly what to do for Prorocentrum, LCA and SCA! Not everyone will have as quick of a turn around as you did but it's certainly possible!

Thank you. Agreed, I started to attack them pretty early on.

 

[BuddyBonButt]

Oh so I should continue to dose mb7? I bought one 1000ml bottle. That could be my issue.

On top of that, you said hanna tester may not be playing along with silica? Any link to evidence on that? If so I can switch to salifert

 

[ryshark]

Oh so I should continue to dose mb7? I bought one 1000ml bottle. That could be my issue.

On top of that, you said hanna tester may not be playing along with silica? Any link to evidence on that? If so I can switch to salifert

Sorry, I never saw this reply/questions. I hope you've already solved your dino issues by now. To answer your questions:

I dosed MB7 daily, when I was fighting dinos. But, this will also lower NO3 and PO4 so need to counter that by dosing NO3 and PO4, daily. Now that I don't have dinos, I only dose MB7 if my PO4 and NO3 is getting higher than I like, which is very rare.

That's correct, suposedly the Hanna tester isn't accurate when silicates are high. No evidence, this was reported by a group on FB who are entirely dedicated to dinos.

 

[TWYOUNG]

A couple of points related to this post. I've also been following the advice of the Dino specific FB group while battling prorocentrum. First, the steps outlined here seem nearly identical to those recommended there. In regards the silicate interference in Hanna testers, my personal experience, and that of some others with multiple testing kits, seems to indicate this problem may be limited to the ULR tester while the LR model remains accurate.
The question of reduced lighting however seems highly debated and I'm left uncertain of the correct path. While it would make sense to decrease lighting,(especially for me as I have no corals as yet), there are reports dinos may be able to respond to "blackouts", or reduced lighting by encasing and surviving only to reappear when lighting resumes. Additionally, If one decreases lighting to inhibit dino growth, do you also inhibit the growth of the diatoms you're relying on to outcompete them? Any thought, advice, experience, words of wisdom would be much appreciated.

 

[ryshark]

A couple of points related to this post. I've also been following the advice of the Dino specific FB group while battling prorocentrum. First, the steps outlined here seem nearly identical to those recommended there. In regards the silicate interference in Hanna testers, my personal experience, and that of some others with multiple testing kits, seems to indicate this problem may be limited to the ULR tester while the LR model remains accurate.
The question of reduced lighting however seems highly debated and I'm left uncertain of the correct path. While it would make sense to decrease lighting,(especially for me as I have no corals as yet), there are reports dinos may be able to respond to "blackouts", or reduced lighting by encasing and surviving only to reappear when lighting resumes. Additionally, If one decreases lighting to inhibit dino growth, do you also inhibit the growth of the diatoms you're relying on to outcompete them? Any thought, advice, experience, words of wisdom would be much appreciated.

That FB dino group is excellent.

I only have the ULR PO4 checker and used Salifert while dosing silicates.

This is why I only reduced my lighting and did No Blackouts. My reduced lighting was still long enough and intense enough to grow both Acros and Eupyllia. My lights were still able to easily grow diatoms (coupled with the silicates) to out compete the dinos. I don't recall if dinos grow faster under white/full spectrum than blue, but I definitely had no issues growing diatoms with my light schedule posted above and the diatoms did out compete the dinos.

What lights do you have? What is your photoperiod?

 

[TWYOUNG]

That FB dino group is excellent.

I only have the ULR PO4 checker and used Salifert while dosing silicates.

This is why I only reduced my lighting and did No Blackouts. My reduced lighting was still long enough and intense enough to grow both Acros and Eupyllia. My lights were still able to easily grow diatoms (coupled with the silicates) to out compete the dinos. I don't recall if dinos grow faster under white/full spectrum than blue, but I definitely had no issues growing diatoms with my light schedule posted above and the diatoms did out compete the dinos.

What lights do you have? What is your photoperiod?

I've got three G5 Radion XR 30's over a 5' tank. No corals yet so lights are just to see my fish, acclimate tank to expected future lighting needs and hopefully start growing some coralline. Honestly, I'm constantly changing up the lighting depending on which side of the debate I'm feeling. I've gone from 10% intensity with white, red and lime spectrums 0%, to 60% and all spectrums 100%. Currently I've got the AB+ program running at 50% overall intensity and red & white spectrums 50%. Photoperiod is 8am to 5pm.
One other debated issue which I don't remember you mentioning is cleaning the tank during treatment. Did you brush algae off rocks, clean glass, remove any algae from sand? Thanks for your advice.

 

[ryshark]

I've got three G5 Radion XR 30's over a 5' tank. No corals yet so lights are just to see my fish, acclimate tank to expected future lighting needs and hopefully start growing some coralline. Honestly, I'm constantly changing up the lighting depending on which side of the debate I'm feeling. I've gone from 10% intensity with white, red and lime spectrums 0%, to 60% and all spectrums 100%. Currently I've got the AB+ program running at 50% overall intensity and red & white spectrums 50%. Photoperiod is 8am to 5pm.
One other debated issue which I don't remember you mentioning is cleaning the tank during treatment. Did you brush algae off rocks, clean glass, remove any algae from sand? Thanks for your advice.

I think your current light setting will be fine.

Good question, I should have mentioned that I did not clean anything in the tank during this process. No cleaning glass, no brushing, no algae removal, I didn't do anything like that until I confirmed on the microscope that the diatoms overtook the dinos.

 

[Stang67]

I think your current light setting will be fine.

Good question, I should have mentioned that I did not clean anything in the tank during this process. No cleaning glass, no brushing, no algae removal, I didn't do anything like that until I confirmed on the microscope that the diatoms overtook the dinos.

hoping this method works for me i just confirmed prorocentrum in my tank.

 

[TWYOUNG]

hoping this method works for me i just confirmed prorocentrum in my tank.

Seems to be working for me. After 4 weeks I have diatoms only on rock and glass, and they are far outnumbering dinos on sand.

 

[ryshark]

hoping this method works for me i just confirmed prorocentrum in my tank.

Report back. Good luck!

 

[ryshark]

Seems to be working for me. After 4 weeks I have diatoms only on rock and glass, and they are far outnumbering dinos on sand.

Nice! Keep it up

 

[Stang67]

Was there a certain order you used? Like did you start with one thing then add another and so forth or did you just start dosing and testing everything from the beginning? Just trying to figure out the best game plan that will work. Nitrates are at 12 and po is .061. Thinking pods and phyto to start then when levels start dropping add in the bacteria and silicate?

 

[ryshark]

Was there a certain order you used? Like did you start with one thing then add another and so forth or did you just start dosing and testing everything from the beginning? Just trying to figure out the best game plan that will work. Nitrates are at 12 and po is .061. Thinking pods and phyto to start then when levels start dropping add in the bacteria and silicate?

I recommend hitting it on all fronts and do it all, that’s what I did. No reason to delay the silicates to start growing diatoms.
When you start dosing bacteria, make sure that your PO4 and Nitrate stay high enough.
Diatoms are ugly too, but after they outcompete the Dino’s and you stop dosing silicates, they will go away.

 

[Herbie's Reef]

I recommend hitting it on all fronts and do it all, that’s what I did. No reason to delay the silicates to start growing diatoms.
When you start dosing bacteria, make sure that your PO4 and Nitrate stay high enough.
Diatoms are ugly too, but after they outcompete the Dino’s and you stop dosing silicates, they will go away.

Hey, sorry to revive an old thread but I just have a few questions about what you did. I see that you have an 8 bulb ATI and was wondering what bulb combo did you use during the reduced white period that you saw as still effective to grow coral? Did you notice any major decline in acros or other corals during your treatment? Thank you for your time.

 

[ryshark]

Hey, sorry to revive an old thread but I just have a few questions about what you did. I see that you have an 8 bulb ATI and was wondering what bulb combo did you use during the reduced white period that you saw as still effective to grow coral? Did you notice any major decline in acros or other corals during your treatment? Thank you for your time.

At that time I had my 2x Coral+ bulbs on one channel and the other channel with 6-bulbs had 4x blue+ and 2x actinic.
My photoperiod during the Dino battle was something like this:
10 hours XHO LED. On at 12pm off at 10pm
6 hours of 6 blue T5 bulbs. On 2pm off 8pm
2 hours of 2 coral+ T5 bulbs. On 4pm off 6 pm

Those 6-bulbs can still grow corals. I didn’t see any decline in acros that I recall. I was also able to eliminate the Dinos quickly. No problem, happy to help.

 

[Herbie's Reef]

At that time I had my 2x Coral+ bulbs on one channel and the other channel with 6-bulbs had 4x blue+ and 2x actinic.
My photoperiod during the Dino battle was something like this:
10 hours XHO LED. On at 12pm off at 10pm
6 hours of 6 blue T5 bulbs. On 2pm off 8pm
2 hours of 2 coral+ T5 bulbs. On 4pm off 6 pm

Those 6-bulbs can still grow corals. I didn’t see any decline in acros that I recall. I was also able to eliminate the Dinos quickly. No problem, happy to help.

Sounds good, I'm slowly reducing my hours now, already had the same bulbs you do too, and the XHO. Going to try doing what you did although my infestation is a little worse right now. Thank you for the help.