Protocol for using antibiotics to treat infected anemones

[TvanB1]

Great write up! Thanks for all the info. Hopefully this will help my new nem pull through.

Those in this thread arguing against this method of treatment sound like anti-vaccine activists lol

 

[flampton]

Sorry I did not catch this.
What kind of antibiotic would be best for dieing,melting anenome/shroom? In assuming necrosis since flesh is melting and floating away. Cipro did help my shrooms in question but if there is a better alternative to these specific symptoms I'd really like to know.

Thank you in advance sir

Well I can't tell you what would be best because we don't have the resources to determine what bacterial strain(s) is causing the disease. So like Orion mentioned this has to be done empirically.

In this case you need to use a broad spectrum antibiotic. So ciprofloxacin is a good choice. However that doesn't mean it's the best, just the wisest choice in the situation.

If we had a idea what and where the bacteria was attacking i might make a different choice. For instance if I knew it was a intracellular bacterial infection i would try doxycycline or another tetracycline. These can penetrate into the host cells easier and attack the bacteria where it is living.

 

[LRT]

Well I can't tell you what would be best because we don't have the resources to determine what bacterial strain(s) is causing the disease. So like Orion mentioned this has to be done empirically.

In this case you need to use a broad spectrum antibiotic. So ciprofloxacin is a good choice. However that doesn't mean it's the best, just the wisest choice in the situation.

If we had a idea what and where the bacteria was attacking i might make a different choice. For instance if I knew it was a intracellular bacterial infection i would try doxycycline or another tetracycline. These can penetrate into the host cells easier and attack the bacteria where it is living.

My intital assumption was the foot. Some shriveled up to nothing, lost foothold and would not foot again but was able to save with cipro.
Then on some, the perimeter of the caps started turning white until it almost entirely took over and just melted away into the water column and where gone. Was able to save one.
Some where entirely taken over and just melted away altogether.
Same symptoms.
Apologize for digging. Really do appreciate what your doing. Digging is nothing personal just looking for whatever info I can obtain on subject matter at hand. I can't find much of anything. Although I've seen certain things with my own eyes I'm captivated and trying to learn as much as I possibly can

 

[Abdullah Al Faruq]

This is a re-post of what I wrote in ReefCentral on 3/09/2013

Many anemone keepers know, the collection and shipping process from ocean to local fish store (LFS) is a stressful event. Most host anemones do not survive this process without help, especially H. magnifica and S. gigantea. Other host anemones also have high mortality. Most succumb to infection in the first 4 weeks on arrival to LFS. With help from other anemone keepers at ReefCentral.com Anemones and Clownfish Forum, I have come up with an antibiotic protocol that seems to be successful and drastically improve the initial survival of anemones during this critical time.

The antibiotic choice: Ciprofloxacin (Cipro), a floroquinone antibiotic or Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole (Septra) combination antibiotic
There are several reasons I choose these antibiotics. They are broad spectrum antibiotics that should, hopefully, cover most pathogens involved. These antibiotics covered most of the pathogens involved in a saltwater wound infection in humans. This is not to say that pathogen that infected the anemones are the same ones that infected human. However, we have to start somewhere and these two antibiotic are reasonable choices. The other reason for choosing these antibiotic is that they are inexpensive and widely available. Cipro and Septra dissolve well in water and will break down with light exposure in a tank environment. Another antibiotic that can be use is levofloxacin (Levaquin). However, Levaquin is a newer fluroquinone and much more expensive because generic are not available.


Instruction:
The dosage for continuous exposure (not dipping) in a hospital tank is Cipro 250 mg or Septra 160/800 mg per every 10 gal of water. I recommended that anemone be treated in hospital tank. I used a standard 20 gallon (high) tank, power head (PH) , heater, egg crate and possibly an air stone. I also recommended that full light is provide for the anemone to help it recover via photosynthesis. The hospital tank is divide into two compartments by the egg crate. Place the anemone with an inert object (a mug or a medium piece of rock) for it to attach to in one compartment. In the other compartment place the heater, PH and +/-air stone.
Fill the hospital tank half way (10 gal) and added either Septra or Cipro, then added the sick anemone. The hospital tank water needs to be keep stable with respect to temperature and salinity. I recommend that all the water in hospital tank be change daily as the day-time cycle comes to an end. After a water change add antibiotic. The best method to add antibiotic into the hospital tank is to rub the tablet between thumb and index finger in front of the PH until fully dissolved. With reasonable light, it is likely that all or most of the antibiotic will be degraded by the end of the day-time cycle. Adding medication at the begin of the night-time cycle, should give optimal antibiotic exposure for the anemone for most of the 24 hour time period. Adequate circulation, with small PH, is a must. The hospital tank will have a minimal ability to process ammonia, therefore feeding sick anemone is not recommended during treatment process. I do not recommend tapering the dosage of the antibiotic because low level antibiotic treatment is what causes problems and creates resistant strains of bacteria.
Anemones often discharge various substance when they are not well. When the hospital tank water have solid discharge, I recommend removal of these discharge. At any time, if the water of the hospital tank is cloudy, I recommend a 100% water change and new antibiotic added.

Length of treatment:
It is recommended that the anemone is treated for a minimum of 7 days, and at least 3 days after it stops deflating. Early termination of treatment is a mistake that has caused me to loose a few anemones.

Disposal of antibiotic containing water:
There is no special treatment needed for disposing water containing antibiotics. Cipro and Septra will break down quickly with light exposure and will not stay around long in the environment. Short course of antibiotic use like in this protocol should not have significant impact on the environment. It is harmful for the environment if there is a continuous low level antibiotic discharge, but not for short courses like in this protocol . In human usage, these two antibiotics are eliminated unchanged by the kidney, and flushed down the toilet into the sewage system, which is what we are doing with our treatment water. It is unclear if treatment by bleach will do anything to the antibiotic. If you are concerned, store the water and put it under sunlight for a few days then discard.
I clean the hospital tank and all equipment thoroughly include bleaching the full set up in fresh water. Once thoroughly cleaned, the hospital tank can be dry and put into storage until needed.

Thank you sir for the information.

 

[gh0st]

Hey doc I just started treatment and notice about 10 tentacles twisted and couple fell off. Should be fine? Also I’m giving 12 hours of light and 12 of dark. Does that seem alright or back the light off? I’m on my second day of treatment. First started with lights on and mouth was open wide. Once the light went out still open wide mouth. This morning when I switch the lights on it reacted and closed tight. Here is some pictures.

 

[intricate_reefer]

Has anyone tried these on zoas that won’t open or slowly shrink. I just got some Cipro yesterday and am going to try a long dip while floating in the tank.

 

[OrionN]

Hey doc I just started treatment and notice about 10 tentacles twisted and couple fell off. Should be fine? Also I’m giving 12 hours of light and 12 of dark. Does that seem alright or back the light off? I’m on my second day of treatment. First started with lights on and mouth was open wide. Once the light went out still open wide mouth. This morning when I switch the lights on it reacted and closed tight. Here is some pictures.

Good luck. He looks saveable. Sometime Magnifica response really good with treatment.

 

[shred5]

Does cipro expire?

 

[OrionN]

Does cipro expire?

The military test for decrease in potency, no decrease if keep in cool dry environment. I would not pay any attention to the expiration date.

 

[Jeeperz]

Where can Cipro be purchased without a prescription?

 

[intricate_reefer]

Where can Cipro be purchased without a prescription?

Chewy

 

[Jeeperz]

Chewy says they require a prescription

 

[intricate_reefer]

Chewy says they require a prescription

 

[Jeeperz]

Thanks. When I was looking I found Cipro for dirt cheap on many sites, chewy included, but they needed a script. When I looked up fish Cipro, that came up at a way higher $$$ but I ordered it. Normally Cipro seems to be no more than 22 cents per, but these are over $1, weird.

 

[nastronaut]

Hi there,

My anemone has taken a turn for the worst today, which has been coming for the past week or so it stopped taking food - but I didn't assume the worst until it was too late, and I didn't ever realize until now how susceptible to bacteria they were.

In hindsight, I suspect my anemone has been fighting infection on and off most of the time I've had it, as it recovered from a big tear when I first got it and has had several notable high (good) points in it's recovery but after reading the symptoms of bacterial infections, I now think something has likely been off for months now, i.e. never back to full health... Hasn't ever looked quite normal.

That said I don't have cipro on hand and I suspect my anemone doesn't have time to wait. While it's still responsive to touch and light, it's definitely on deaths doorstep.

I've started treatment with kanaplex and furan 2 as those are the broad spectrum antibiotics, namely gram negative, which I have on hand. I had revive dipped it this morning and since then have had it in a clean saltwater mix with amino acids present which seemed to slow the deterioration while I learned about treatment options. It seemed to slow the decay but the mouth was still gaping and it wasn't exchanging water.

Since adding antibiotics in another clean vessel, within 30 minutes, the mouth has finally mostly closed and it's exchanging water, swelling up it's body, thank god. It was responsive to light prior to removing it from my DT this morning, but started to lose flesh. It hasn't bleached, but leaving it dark for the night and will setup my spare lighting setup for it tomorrow morning.

Wondering if anyone has experience with non cipro antibiotics such as kanaplex and furan, reading this post I see atleast one person has cited success with this combo, following the cipro protocol and setup otherwise.

Post in thread 'Anemone problems' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/anemone-problems.578326/post-5900928

Thanks for input.

 

[mistergray]

I am currently on day two of this treatment with my BTA the next 5 days (minimum) is going to be rough on me with work but I’ll do anything to try and make him happy and healthy again.
I bought cipro through chewy. It was NOT a prescription! Cost me about 40 with shipping. 30 pills 500mg each

Nevermind, I can’t buy this from chewy without a prescription.

 

[mistergray]

Thanks. When I was looking I found Cipro for dirt cheap on many sites, chewy included, but they needed a script. When I looked up fish Cipro, that came up at a way higher $$$ but I ordered it. Normally Cipro seems to be no more than 22 cents per, but these are over $1, weird.

Where did you order it? I can’t get it from chewy without a prescription?

 

[Shooter6]

Okay, this is what I needed to know. I thought a prescription was needed.

I used the same exact one. On 2 colorado sunburst nems.
Heres what i did.
I kept them in a basket. Black square ones sold at home depot for ponds.
Had a tote just big enough to fit it and a cheap powerhead from walmart.
Filled the tote with enough water to keep nems completely covered and basket floated, about 3gal. Powerhead NOT POINTED directly at nems.
1 500MG pill oee day, right before lights out.
I used a black box led with bothe channels at about 60%.
12hrs on 12 off.
Change the water at least 1 time a day, before dosing.
If there is slime or poop, change twice a day.
Continue dosing at least 10 days. I did 15.
No feeding. And use fresh saltwater each water change you dont want to use water that has had time to build bacteria in it.

 

[Shooter6]

Where did you order it? I can’t get it from chewy without a prescription?

Google fish meds and a few sites come up then search cipiro on them the bottle says fish cipro

 

[mistergray]

This is a re-post of what I wrote in ReefCentral on 3/09/2013

Many anemone keepers know, the collection and shipping process from ocean to local fish store (LFS) is a stressful event. Most host anemones do not survive this process without help, especially H. magnifica and S. gigantea. Other host anemones also have high mortality. Most succumb to infection in the first 4 weeks on arrival to LFS. With help from other anemone keepers at ReefCentral.com Anemones and Clownfish Forum, I have come up with an antibiotic protocol that seems to be successful and drastically improve the initial survival of anemones during this critical time.

The antibiotic choice: Ciprofloxacin (Cipro), a floroquinone antibiotic or Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole (Septra) combination antibiotic
There are several reasons I choose these antibiotics. They are broad spectrum antibiotics that should, hopefully, cover most pathogens involved. These antibiotics covered most of the pathogens involved in a saltwater wound infection in humans. This is not to say that pathogen that infected the anemones are the same ones that infected human. However, we have to start somewhere and these two antibiotic are reasonable choices. The other reason for choosing these antibiotic is that they are inexpensive and widely available. Cipro and Septra dissolve well in water and will break down with light exposure in a tank environment. Another antibiotic that can be use is levofloxacin (Levaquin). However, Levaquin is a newer fluroquinone and much more expensive because generic are not available.


Instruction:
The dosage for continuous exposure (not dipping) in a hospital tank is Cipro 250 mg or Septra 160/800 mg per every 10 gal of water. I recommended that anemone be treated in hospital tank. I used a standard 20 gallon (high) tank, power head (PH) , heater, egg crate and possibly an air stone. I also recommended that full light is provide for the anemone to help it recover via photosynthesis. The hospital tank is divide into two compartments by the egg crate. Place the anemone with an inert object (a mug or a medium piece of rock) for it to attach to in one compartment. In the other compartment place the heater, PH and +/-air stone.
Fill the hospital tank half way (10 gal) and added either Septra or Cipro, then added the sick anemone. The hospital tank water needs to be keep stable with respect to temperature and salinity. I recommend that all the water in hospital tank be change daily as the day-time cycle comes to an end. After a water change add antibiotic. The best method to add antibiotic into the hospital tank is to rub the tablet between thumb and index finger in front of the PH until fully dissolved. With reasonable light, it is likely that all or most of the antibiotic will be degraded by the end of the day-time cycle. Adding medication at the begin of the night-time cycle, should give optimal antibiotic exposure for the anemone for most of the 24 hour time period. Adequate circulation, with small PH, is a must. The hospital tank will have a minimal ability to process ammonia, therefore feeding sick anemone is not recommended during treatment process. I do not recommend tapering the dosage of the antibiotic because low level antibiotic treatment is what causes problems and creates resistant strains of bacteria.
Anemones often discharge various substance when they are not well. When the hospital tank water have solid discharge, I recommend removal of these discharge. At any time, if the water of the hospital tank is cloudy, I recommend a 100% water change and new antibiotic added.

Length of treatment:
It is recommended that the anemone is treated for a minimum of 7 days, and at least 3 days after it stops deflating. Early termination of treatment is a mistake that has caused me to loose a few anemones.

Disposal of antibiotic containing water:
There is no special treatment needed for disposing water containing antibiotics. Cipro and Septra will break down quickly with light exposure and will not stay around long in the environment. Short course of antibiotic use like in this protocol should not have significant impact on the environment. It is harmful for the environment if there is a continuous low level antibiotic discharge, but not for short courses like in this protocol . In human usage, these two antibiotics are eliminated unchanged by the kidney, and flushed down the toilet into the sewage system, which is what we are doing with our treatment water. It is unclear if treatment by bleach will do anything to the antibiotic. If you are concerned, store the water and put it under sunlight for a few days then discard.
I clean the hospital tank and all equipment thoroughly include bleaching the full set up in fresh water. Once thoroughly cleaned, the hospital tank can be dry and put into storage until needed.

Stupid question, because I’ve never done a 100% water change before. When performing the 100% water change, I’m assuming the anemone will be without water for a very very short time period. Is that okay? Or am I missing something on the proper process of doing a 100% water change?