Pyrple tang swimming upside down

[4davegill]

I have a purple tang that caught ich in my display tank 175gal. I took all of the fish out and put them in my 40 gal Quarantine tank 2 wrasse, 1 blenny, 3gobies,2 clowns. While dt is fallowed. Treated with cupramine testing water at about 0.54 to 0.57 steady testing daily. All nutrient levels are good and no ammonia (quarantine live rock). I also ran consentrated o2 through a stone to ease breathing.

The purple tank recovered and ich abated, and it started swimming well and looking well for about a week, then it started swimming head down, then irratic, then upside down. All the others are healthy. Here are pictures

 

[blaxsun]

#fishmedic

 

[vetteguy53081]

That’s too bad. Sorry to say but this fish is beyond distressed and is moribund which expresses a condition in which the fish may or may not recover and the prognosis is improbable
Wish I could sound more positive
You can attempt to increase oxygen via air stone but please do not have high expectations
When did fish last eat?
When did this onset begin with current issue?
Fish also appears to have the parasite “ich”

 

[4davegill]

After i moved it from the dt i did a freshwater do and layer that day it was stifling to breathe and laying on its side near death. I put the stone in and ctd it to a medical oxygen concentrator, and it had done well for a week.

Then yesterday it started swimming head down and now upside down today. It had seemed to be getting well until yesterday.

Also is been a couple days since it ate anything

 

[4davegill]

That’s too bad. Sorry to say but this fish is beyond distressed and is moribund which expresses a condition in which the fish may or may not recover and the prognosis is improbable
Wish I could sound more positive
You can attempt to increase oxygen via air stone but please do not have high expectations
When did fish last eat?
When did this onset begin with current issue?
Fish also appears to have the parasite “ich”

Also, yes the ich is the original reason I moved him out of the DT. I am letting my DT fallow now, and treating the QT with Cloramine. hovers around 0.54.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Also, yes the ich is the original reason I moved him out of the DT. I am letting my DT fallow now, and treating the QT with Cloramine. hovers around 0.54.

Sorry to hear. It is unusual for a fish to recover from one issue only to develop another one. Here is a possible scenario: The fish also had gill flukes, copper won't help with that. When you gave it a FW dip, it knocked the flukes off. That leaves hundreds of tiny holes in its gills and it bled so much that it became anemic. That does not, however account for the second relapse yesterday.....

Jay

 

[4davegill]

Sorry to hear. It is unusual for a fish to recover from one issue only to develop another one. Here is a possible scenario: The fish also had gill flukes, copper won't help with that. When you gave it a FW dip, it knocked the flukes off. That leaves hundreds of tiny holes in its gills and it bled so much that it became anemic. That does not, however account for the second relapse yesterday.....

Jay

Should i treat for flukes at the same time in the QT tank? It is still alive, but not yet well. It is swimming a little better, but only marginally.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Should i treat for flukes at the same time in the QT tank? It is still alive, but not yet well. It is swimming a little better, but only marginally.

Flukes are only a possibility, it wouldn't hurt to treat with Prazipro (with good aeration) but I can't say if it will for sure work in this case....

Jay

 

[4davegill]

Flukes are only a possibility, it wouldn't hurt to treat with Prazipro (with good aeration) but I can't say if it will for sure work in this case....

Jay

I think it may be ammonia. It creeped up a bit. Im going to try a methyl blue detox while I replace the Cupramine with Copper Power so i can use prime in the tank. It is my understanding that i can't use Chloroquine phosphate because of my coris wrasses.

Should i use any antibiotic to be safe?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I think it may be ammonia. It creeped up a bit. Im going to try a methyl blue detox while I replace the Cupramine with Copper Power so i can use prime in the tank. It is my understanding that i can't use Chloroquine phosphate because of my coris wrasses.

Should i use any antibiotic to be safe?

What is the actual ammonia level?
Changing from Cupramine to copper power on the fly is very hard to do.
I don’t like chloroquine due to reactions, plus it may cause a higher ammonia spike.
Jay

 

[4davegill]

What is the actual ammonia level?
Changing from Cupramine to copper power on the fly is very hard to do.
I don’t like chloroquine due to reactions, plus it may cause a higher ammonia spike.
Jay

.04 is hte current ammonia level but was around .06 yesterday. I used partial water change and some bacteria.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

.04 is hte current ammonia level but was around .06 yesterday. I used partial water change and some bacteria.

.04 is pretty low, at the lower limit of some test kits. Ammonia isn’t causing his issue.
If the fish is still alive this morning, can you post a short video?
Jay

 

[Qasimja]

sorry to say whenever i have a fish acting in this manor it usually does not recover hopefully it wont be the same case for you

 

[4davegill]

.04 is pretty low, at the lower limit of some test kits. Ammonia isn’t causing his issue.
If the fish is still alive this morning, can you post a short video?
Jay

I bathed him for 30 min in methylene blue and he's swimming better and not upside down.

 

[Garf]

I bathed him for 30 min in methylene blue and he's swimming better and not upside down.

He’s still alive? Excellent

 

[vetteguy53081]

In extreme cases it will recover but the next 48 hours will dictate that. Glad to see it swimming. Do not attempt to feed yet. Maintain Water quality and oxygen.

 

[4davegill]

In extreme cases it will recover but the next 48 hours will dictate that. Glad to see it swimming. Do not attempt to feed yet. Maintain Water quality and oxygen.

I got the bubble stone hooked up to a oxygen concentrator. still seems to have some positive bouyancy. Once my shipment of Copper Power comes in Im planning to change water from cupramine to that, so that i can use prime to keep ammonia low. Should be here tonight. I have 30 Gal of water all premixed and temperate. The ability to use prime is huge. Not sure why anyone would use a non-chelated form of copper like cupramine. It is what i had, but the instability is troubling. If it were just a new addition i was treating, i would have used CF, but since im fallowing my DT, i have two large wrasses that cant have CF. They are my oldest fish.

I hope the purple tang can hold out until then. It seems to be more sensitive to ammonia. My number is still around .04, but if I do a partial tank change prior to the copper power arriving, i wont have enough premixed to change over and fix the ammonia for the duration with prime. Dilemma...

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I bathed him for 30 min in methylene blue and he's swimming better and not upside down.

Sorry - the tang is too out of focus to really see anything.

A couple of things - I see you have coral sand substrate. That poses a problem when dosing copper medications as there is a tendency for it to absorb copper from the water. You can overcome that to some degree by accurate copper testing and redosing. Also, don't forget, when you dose copper power, you will see a jump in the ammonia level - it can raise the ammonia level by 0.50 ppm for a short period.

Jay

 

[4davegill]

Thank you, Jay. I am fighting ammonia now, and with cupramine i cannot use prime. If i switch to copper power, i can at least use prime. I dont mind removing the sand and using prime to control the ammonia, but given the effectiveness of the Methylene Blue, I am thinking my ammonia, even at .04 is too high for the tang. Thoughts?

Sorry - the tang is too out of focus to really see anything.

A couple of things - I see you have coral sand substrate. That poses a problem when dosing copper medications as there is a tendency for it to absorb copper from the water. You can overcome that to some degree by accurate copper testing and redosing. Also, don't forget, when you dose copper power, you will see a jump in the ammonia level - it can raise the ammonia level by 0.50 ppm for a short period.

Jay

 

[Reefbuds]

Really happy to see your tang alive! I was worried as I read. Fritzyme 9 works fantastic on ammonia and is natural, wont stress anything out. Its the best way I've found to take care of my ammonia problems personally.