Question for Dr. Randy: Flocculant for my tank

Miami Reef

Clam Fanatic
View Badges
Joined
Sep 8, 2017
Messages
11,165
Reaction score
20,734
Location
Miami Beach
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hello @Randy Holmes-Farley

I have a question for you!

I added (rinsed) dry sand (special grade - coarse) 2 weeks ago to my tank. Ever since then I’ve been having extreme fine particles. It’s not the actual sand grains floating around; it’s the dust from the sand.

I know this because when I stirred the sand yesterday I saw the exact particles shoot up.

The particles are extremely small. I’m looking for a flocculant to either bind the particles to make them sink. Or to bind them to make them easier to get caught in my filter.

I used Seachem Clarity which says this on seachem’s website:

“Clarity™ is the ultimate clarifier for both fresh and saltwater. It employs an advanced polymeric flocculating agent that is both reef and plant safe. Clarity™ is the only clarifier on the market that does it all! Clarity™ will clear all types of clouding.

Many companies manufacture multiple products to clear up each type of cloudiness and each different environment (e.g. freshwater, marine, reef, etc.). Some companies have developed products that will clear most types of cloudiness, but their application requires two separate bottles of product. Clarity™ contains compounds that will clear all types of cloudiness in all environments.”


However, it didn’t work. The particles remain even after waiting for the yellow cloud to clear.

Is there a better ingredient/chemical I can use?
 

LRT

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
10,196
Reaction score
42,134
Location
mesa arizona
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I just added same dry sand to a tank a few weeks ago. I rinsed for a solid 2 hrs before adding it super carefully and still ended up with clouding.
I ended up turn my skimmer way up to run as wet a possible to get it to clear quicker. Let it run like that and cleaned daily for few days. First cpl cups looked like they had clay in the bottom of it. The skimmer did strip it out for me though.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
View Badges
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
29,485
Reaction score
23,571
Location
tejas
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
this is a very helpful thread on the need for testing before adding rinsed sand to large tanks

take a prep handful, add to a clear glass of water and hold up to light, Miami's would have shown clouding and the need for much more pre rinse.


that they say on the label on the bag no rinse needed, its borderline inflaming isn't it. The bag should say: prepare to violate city daily water use codes in getting our product up to spec. this issue in a 250+ gallon tank, the persistent issue, is the prime reason we pre rinse, about 30% of tanks have this happen but not 100%.

I think some bags are degraded grains moreso than others... storage or handling differences. silting outcome differences.
 
OP
OP
Miami Reef

Miami Reef

Clam Fanatic
View Badges
Joined
Sep 8, 2017
Messages
11,165
Reaction score
20,734
Location
Miami Beach
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
this is a very helpful thread on the need for testing before adding rinsed sand to large tanks

take a prep handful, add to a clear glass of water and hold up to light, Miami's would have shown clouding and the need for much more pre rinse.


that they say on the label on the bag no rinse needed, its borderline inflaming isn't it. The bag should say: prepare to violate city daily water use codes in getting our product up to spec. this issue in a 250+ gallon tank, the persistent issue, is the prime reason we pre rinse, about 30% of tanks have this happen but not 100%.

I think some bags are degraded grains moreso than others... storage or handling differences. silting outcome differences.
I did rinse it. I used a white bucket but it was still pretty cloudy after rinsing. It wasn’t silty, but I couldn’t really see below the sand after 4 inches of water. I didn’t realize I needed to make it crystal clear before adding it. Dang it!

Thank you Brandon! I’m glad I learned this the hard way so we can prevent it happening to other people.

Guy: if you purchase dry sand: don’t make my mistake. The water should be CRISTAL CLEAR after rinsing. You should be able to see through the water!

@brandon429 Just FYI: my tank isn’t cloudy. It’s clear but there’s the small particles. I will attach a video.
 
OP
OP
Miami Reef

Miami Reef

Clam Fanatic
View Badges
Joined
Sep 8, 2017
Messages
11,165
Reaction score
20,734
Location
Miami Beach
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Look Brandon: When I gently move the sand (even slightly) it makes it 1000000times worse

These particles are on a “good” day. I didn’t even stir the sandbed before this video.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
View Badges
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
29,485
Reaction score
23,571
Location
tejas
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Miami truly this input was new for me, I had not heard of clouding persisting past the pre rinse. it helps us to know there's fine details when prepping large tank sandbeds like that, I'd never thought to pre verify rinsing till just now. your tank is so huge, redoing any of its jobs is a true pain. QT for it, a true pain but you're doing it. You are willing to work with the aspects of 300 gallon systems much like nano reefers easily access theirs, nice job

you did not sit back and let the tank command, you took its reigns

*in time I really think this will settle out as bioencapsulation occurs to make larger aggregates but how long that takes, or if a wrasse can cause continuing headaches, I dont know. curious to read of Randy's floc ideas.
 

LRT

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
10,196
Reaction score
42,134
Location
mesa arizona
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Its totally a thing with the dry sand. I used 4×5 gallon buckets and rinsed 40 lb bag for 2 hours until knuckles where fully peeled on one hand. Even let the garden hose run in it at bottom of buckets. Placed super gingerly and still ended up with some clouding.
Same live sand takes a quarter of the time to rinse.
I still have 2 bags I need to rinse for tank 2. Not looking forward to that lol
 
OP
OP
Miami Reef

Miami Reef

Clam Fanatic
View Badges
Joined
Sep 8, 2017
Messages
11,165
Reaction score
20,734
Location
Miami Beach
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
@Randy Holmes-Farley

I got another question: does diffusion work with solid particles in a tank? Will removing more particles from water column make the sandbed “leach” out more particles until it can’t leach out anymore?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
66,543
Reaction score
62,838
Location
Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
@Randy Holmes-Farley

I got another question: does diffusion work with solid particles in a tank? Will removing more particles from water column make the sandbed “leach” out more particles until it can’t leach out anymore?

Not really.

Particles do not diffuse noticeably, but they can get swirled up by currents.

Ih you keep swirling them up and removing them, eventually you may deplete any surface in the sand.

Often, such cloudiness goes away on its own as the particles settle out somewhere with little flow.
 

Cell

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Messages
14,116
Reaction score
21,724
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Just vacuuming the sand wont work?
 

Boosterman

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 23, 2019
Messages
588
Reaction score
831
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
@Miami Reef I wish I would have read your thread before I poured my washed dry aragonite sand. I am having similar problem. How is your tank now? Clear?
 
OP
OP
Miami Reef

Miami Reef

Clam Fanatic
View Badges
Joined
Sep 8, 2017
Messages
11,165
Reaction score
20,734
Location
Miami Beach
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
@Miami Reef I wish I would have read your thread before I poured my washed dry aragonite sand. I am having similar problem. How is your tank now? Clear?
MUCH better! It took many many months (my overflows suck lol) but it is cristal clear!

Probably took about 4-5 months in total. I believe a normal tank would have been clearer much faster.
 
OP
OP
Miami Reef

Miami Reef

Clam Fanatic
View Badges
Joined
Sep 8, 2017
Messages
11,165
Reaction score
20,734
Location
Miami Beach
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Glad to hear. I was going to get some Seachem Clarity but I will just save my $$$
Oh, that doesn’t do anything! I’ve used seachem clarity, KZ coral snow, diatom filters, 1 micron filter socks. Nothing made it go away, but it just cleared up for some reason.
 

Chuk

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 9, 2017
Messages
439
Reaction score
351
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Bentonite is a great food safe clarifier used in brewing. Maybe give that a shot
 
Back
Top