Question for the canister "haters"

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ScubaSkeets

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Not sure what the concern really is? I rarely see canisters mentioned as an issue....unless someone comes on asking why their nitrates are high. The most obvious answer is often canister filters not being cleaned as often as needed. And if someone has a sump with filter socks the answer commonly is clean those socks more frequently. However changing a sock takes me approximately 10 seconds to hit the feed button and switch out a clean sock. When i used a canister it was more like a 10-15 minute process and often a mess....so personally i am a hater of them....but used and maintained appropriately they do fine so if others use them then good for them.

So many threads lately about perceived slights lots of sensitivity going on i guess.
Sensitive? LOL. Not at all. I'm a proud user of canister filters, and so far, knock on wood, its done me just fine. The only issue that I have is the amount of equipment inside the tank is pretty unsightly and that (so far) is the only reason why I would do a sump next time. However, the "ugliness" factor is not my question. If you do a search for "high nitrates", you will see a number of threads that the people are seemingly doing everything they can do (changing filter socks, water changes, etc.) and they are still having high nitrates.
Does it take a little longer to clean a canister? Probably (I personally do not know), but the "10-15 minute process" for doing so isn't that big of a deal for me (for now).

Sensitive.
Ha!
I'm not a millennial. :p
 
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ScubaSkeets

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On both my 54G and 125G, I am using canisters, HOB refugium, and HOB protein skimmers. The 54G is pretty unsightly with everything being seen, and for that reason, I would switch to a sump with that one first.
With my 125G, same equipment, but the way it's setup, you would only notice the stuff hanging on the back if you were looking for it. The input wand thingy is the only thing visibly different between mine and a sump system.
 

ScottR

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It seems that the canister haters usually use the "nitrate factory" for their argument against them.
So how do you explain the numerous threads about high nitrates even though a sump is being used? Seems like the "nitrate factory" argument is quite flawed since sumps do not appear to be the "cure" for high nitrates.
Maintenance and size. One could use socks and they’re much easier to clean and do the same thing without the added space. A roller mat is even better in a sense as it’s very low maintenance. But personally, I think most people that use canisters don’t have a sump. But for the no3 factory, anything can become a magnet for no3 if not properly maintained.
 

Reef.

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Sensitive? LOL. Not at all. I'm a proud user of canister filters, and so far, knock on wood, its done me just fine. The only issue that I have is the amount of equipment inside the tank is pretty unsightly and that (so far) is the only reason why I would do a sump next time. However, the "ugliness" factor is not my question. If you do a search for "high nitrates", you will see a number of threads that the people are seemingly doing everything they can do (changing filter socks, water changes, etc.) and they are still having high nitrates.
Does it take a little longer to clean a canister? Probably (I personally do not know), but the "10-15 minute process" for doing so isn't that big of a deal for me (for now).

Sensitive.
Ha!
I'm not a millennial. :p

to be fair no one is going to come on a forum and post a bragging thread on how good their nitrates are, people tend to only post when there is an issue.

If we are playing the search game, I bet if you search for "my nitrates are too low how can I increase them" most will have sumps.
 
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brandon429

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does your system still show .25 ammonia or did it go away am truly curious to know
 
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ScubaSkeets

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to be fair no one is going to come on a forum and post a bragging thread on how good their nitrates are, people tend to only post when there is an issue.

If we are playing the search game, I bet if you search for "my nitrates are too low how can I increase them" most will have sumps.
Take a look at my first post. Where is the so-called "bragging"?

And if you think my other reply, which I assume you think in the one with the bragging, well, you're wrong there too. Saying something works for me does not constitute bragging in my book.
 

brandon429

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I don't have anything wrong with canister filters. run them packed, run them empty, not a prob same outcome either way. even if kept totally clean, in the average reef the sandbed isn't so who cares what a canister has in it in terms of detritus

no reef tanks are lacking surface area though and require extra help, its something we do as a holdover from the freshwater hobby.
 

dedragon

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scuba he isnt talking about you bragging i think, he is addressing the fact that a lot of times people post on this forum when they themselves have high nitrates, a lot of em have cannister filters. But, like others, i believe the issue is that they take a while to clean and its messy, when i can change out 3 filter socks in less than 30 seconds no mess. Its easier for people to put off cannister maintenance henceforth nitrate issues
 

Reef.

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Take a look at my first post. Where is the so-called "bragging"?

And if you think my other reply, which I assume you think in the one with the bragging, well, you're wrong there too. Saying something works for me does not constitute bragging in my book.

reread my post, I didn't say you were bragging! I was saying you will see more posts from people with an issue than people posting bragging they don't have an issue with nitrates, that wasn't a pointed dig at you it was addressing your point that "you will see a number of thread where people are doing seemingly everything they can..." my point is you will always get a higher percentage of posts asking for help with an issue, than people posting their socks are amazing at removing nitrates.
 

PeterC99

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What intrigues most me about this hobby is all the different ways people maintain successful aquariums. I have personally learned that it is very difficult to find the right balance among the chemistry, fish, corals, equipment, etc. but have also found that there can be many great solutions to a single issue. Also interesting to see how passionate people are about their solutions.

That said, I'm interested in reading & learning more about the different options and methods that are used to keep successful aquariums. Please keep the information coming and do not worry about what anyone thinks!
 

sde1500

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Seems like the "nitrate factory" argument is quite flawed since sumps do not appear to be the "cure" for high nitrates.
Maybe so, but the counter argument that "others have the same problem" isn't really all that nuanced either. Any area detritus can gather can be a nitrate factory. Canister filters seem to have been frequent culprits.
I'm not a millennial.
Imagine thinking it is fine to generalize and trash talk an entire generation.
Take a look at my first post. Where is the so-called "bragging"?

And if you think my other reply, which I assume you think in the one with the bragging, well, you're wrong there too. Saying something works for me does not constitute bragging in my book.
No on accused you of bragging, they were pointing out that more people would come on to ask how to fix nitrates, than to come on and brag about low/perfect nitrate management.
 

Rmckoy

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It seems that the canister haters usually use the "nitrate factory" for their argument against them.
So how do you explain the numerous threads about high nitrates even though a sump is being used? Seems like the "nitrate factory" argument is quite flawed since sumps do not appear to be the "cure" for high nitrates.
Poor husbandry is the cause .
but with canisters , it’s faster , and mlre
Noticeable .
Being someone that started with a canister , gradually building bigger tanks and converting to sump .
the maintenance frequency is far less .
Besides .
where can you hide a skimmer , reactors , ato thermometers ,

If it works for you .
that’s great. I personally know In a old 75 gal
I had to rip the canister apart daily and throughly wash every part in order to maintain nutrients .
that also included trying multiple different media .
rowa pho’s , purigen , carbon , coral skeleton , ceramic balls ,
Everything ...,

do you have pictures of your established system ?
 
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ScubaSkeets

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My intention was not a "my canister filter is better than your sump" thing.
I am still a relative newby. My first tank was started about 5 or 6 months ago. I didn't know better and in my haste bought a canister. After getting more involved and doing more research and reading, I found that most people preferred sumps. The main reason was the so-called "Nitrate factory" factor.
Anyway, the SW bug bit me pretty quick and I purchased a 125G earlier this year, and I was torn between going canister again or sumping it. In fact I fully intended to do a sump. However, for some reason, it sort of scared me. Drilling concerned me. Losing siphon on the HOB overflow boxes concerned me. Losing power concerned me. Calculating flow concerned me. I just didn't think I was ready for one and couldn't find a way to make it asthetically pleasing without spending even more money, labor, etc. Since a canister is pretty much plug-and-play, I chose to go with another one for the 125.
That being said, I'm either too wishy-washy or I'm too analytical, because I'm still not sure if I made the right decision. So honestly, I guess I'm just trying to find either more justification for the canister or more justification to switch to a sump. So when I see threads about high nitrates with sumps, that gives me reason to think I made the right choice but I am also looking for reasons why I made the wrong choice and justification to switch to a sump.
I get the advantages and disadvantages of both and i am convinced that sumps are superior. Now I guess I just need to convince myself that they are superior enough to switch.
 

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Mechanical filters is like a diaper, sure, you can keep a room free of pee and poop by putting that diaper on the baby. Up to you if you want to keep the diaper forever, or if yiu want to go thru the mess of potty training the baby.

Like I said, if the goal is only to keep room clean, nothing wrong with diapers. If you want a more mature kid, diapers are hit or miss.
 

dedragon

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sumps are more to make life easier. it gives you room to hide equipment, if a pump fails only one thing needs to be replaced, in sump protein skimmer so if it overflows it doesnt go on your floor, dc return pumps and gate valve on herbie or bean animal overflow to control flow, large enough sump so if power outage happens nothing will overflow, 30 second mechanical filter change etc. there are a lot of ways sumps have advantages over canisters
 

CanuckReefer

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My intention was not a "my canister filter is better than your sump" thing.
I am still a relative newby. My first tank was started about 5 or 6 months ago. I didn't know better and in my haste bought a canister. After getting more involved and doing more research and reading, I found that most people preferred sumps. The main reason was the so-called "Nitrate factory" factor.
Anyway, the SW bug bit me pretty quick and I purchased a 125G earlier this year, and I was torn between going canister again or sumping it. In fact I fully intended to do a sump. However, for some reason, it sort of scared me. Drilling concerned me. Losing siphon on the HOB overflow boxes concerned me. Losing power concerned me. Calculating flow concerned me. I just didn't think I was ready for one and couldn't find a way to make it asthetically pleasing without spending even more money, labor, etc. Since a canister is pretty much plug-and-play, I chose to go with another one for the 125.
That being said, I'm either too wishy-washy or I'm too analytical, because I'm still not sure if I made the right decision. So honestly, I guess I'm just trying to find either more justification for the canister or more justification to switch to a sump. So when I see threads about high nitrates with sumps, that gives me reason to think I made the right choice but I am also looking for reasons why I made the wrong choice and justification to switch to a sump.
I get the advantages and disadvantages of both and i am convinced that sumps are superior. Now I guess I just need to convince myself that they are superior enough to switch.
Or.... you could do neither. Just sayin.... :)
 
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