Randy's Tank and Learn Thread

[Reefering1]

Well Randy just made a thread kind of (slightly) challenging the belief that corals need soluble organics to survive.

I do agree with him. I don’t think leathers need tannins or liquid organics, but he is feeding his fish and phyto, so there should be lots of goodies either way.

I’m not really seeing signs of nutrient starvation. Just my opinion of course.

Well this one is barely surviving, maybe thriving is something different? Maybe different corals "need" different things..
Idk. But it's well accepted that leathers "like dirty water". Surely "dirty" has more organics than new water spiked with n03/po4, I would think anyways. Not saying I'm right, just seems to be a easy branch to grab on to.
I don't imagine it's the lighting, but moving it into less light is easy to try.

 

[Reefering1]

I think it is unlikely to be too clean, but maybe. I heard macro releases a lot of organics and there’s a ton in the refugium. Skimming is not super intense and GAC is not replaced that often.

Could be they don’t like so much phyto and other particulates in the water. I never dosed that before.

Maybe do Miami's "bucket test", with next w/c, see if there's some yellowing to the water. Easy way to quantify organics. You took the uv down and no ozone, correct?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Maybe a toxin from the dinos, but they have been gone for a few weeks.

 

[Reefering1]

Dry. Prime Reef flakes, TDO chromoboost, Hikari seaweed extreme, nori, and sprung sea veggies.

Fish were not interested in fresh clam. Only the LTA anemone liked it (did not have the magnifica then).

The magnifica is getting frozen scallop.

I only speak opinions based on my experiences..
But I've always been impressed/intrigued with how the entire tank responds to just a splash of the juices from frozen foods...
Do the dry food get a tank wide feeding response when it hits the water?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Maybe do Miami's "bucket test", with next w/c, see if there's some yellowing to the water. Easy way to quantify organics. You took the uv down and no ozone, correct?

Right, no ozone or uv.

 

[Reefering1]

Maybe a toxin from the dinos, but they have been gone for a few weeks.

And you been running the gac. Shouldn't be a issue, imo

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I only speak opinions based on my experiences..
But I've always been impressed/intrigued with how the entire tank responds to just a splash of the juices from frozen foods...
Do the dry food get a tank wide feeding response when it hits the water?

I’ve never looked for a coral response, but also never noted one. Just the fish frenzy. The foods are added 10 times per day, so depending on how long a response lasted, it might never go away. lol

 

[Miami Reef]

All those live rocks came with lots of organics, and they had some natural breakdown. He feeds phyto and fish food daily.

I think you guys are underestimating the resilience of leathers to nutrient issues. There are plenty of nutrients to allow the leather to not perish within a week or two…

I think nutrients and organics are just a scapegoat…

JMO

 

[Garf]

All sounds like a standard, unpredictable new tank setup to me, lol.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

All sounds like a standard, unpredictable new tank setup to me, lol.

Perhaps true. If everything worked perfectly, what would the challenge be?

Maybe I’ll figure out a change to make, maybe things will evolve to change on their own, or maybe I’ll just have to sort through what thrives and what does not as I have set up the tank. :)

I have always accepted that a true mixed reef may be harder than tanks focussed on specific types of organisms. I expect that SPS, lps, large anemones, sponges, and soft corals are a challenging mix.

 

[areefer01]

Maybe a toxin from the dinos, but they have been gone for a few weeks.

Interesting thought on toxin(s). I do not recall what all you are keeping but by any chance multiple leathers? Could be that one is releasing toxins as a form of coral warfare and harming the other?

I know I have kept a few different leathers and soft corals in my mixed reef and then one day out of the blue the larger weeping willow started to fade. Then my fuzzy lobo started. All of the other leathers appeared to be fine. A tona yellow and unknown gold, brown, leather continued to grow just fine. SPS and LPS didn't skip a beat.

Toxins seemed like a plausible answer but I can't say for sure that was the root cause. I mean I am sticking my hand in the tank for maintenance sometimes without gloves so there is that.

This isn't your first rodeo so just a thought. Hope your evening is well.

 

[Garf]

Toxins seemed like a plausible answer but I can't say for sure that was the root cause.

Everything that consumes something, exudes something. This applies to fish, coral, zooplankton, bacteria, fungus, you name it. These exudates can have a positive, neutral or negative effect on everything else in the tank, even if such exudates are not meant to be toxic, anti predatory, etc. This then changes the populations of things that change the composition of the exudates, changing the effects once again. These populations also change with pH, temperature, trace element variation, food source, predation etc. It's like a soup of uncertainty.

If everything worked perfectly, what would the challenge the be?

Thats certainly one of the reasons I do this.

 

[EliMelly]

It’s most likely you’re lighting and flow. Move them around a bit and see if you get a change. Feeding isn’t an issue , I feed very heavy and willows love it.

 

[CNDReef]

If i it still has a few polyps but smallish , it might just be shedding.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Interesting thought on toxin(s). I do not recall what all you are keeping but by any chance multiple leathers? Could be that one is releasing toxins as a form of coral warfare and harming the other?

I know I have kept a few different leathers and soft corals in my mixed reef and then one day out of the blue the larger weeping willow started to fade. Then my fuzzy lobo started. All of the other leathers appeared to be fine. A tona yellow and unknown gold, brown, leather continued to grow just fine. SPS and LPS didn't skip a beat.

Toxins seemed like a plausible answer but I can't say for sure that was the root cause. I mean I am sticking my hand in the tank for maintenance sometimes without gloves so there is that.

This isn't your first rodeo so just a thought. Hope your evening is well.

Two leathers yes, but both very small. Both were about the size of a quarter in a 250 gallon total system.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It’s most likely you’re lighting and flow. Move them around a bit and see if you get a change. Feeding isn’t an issue , I feed very heavy and willows love it.

Yes, that’s certainly reasonable. The willow disappeared after it withered down in size. I did move the yellow to a bit lower light and probably lower flow. See how it does there.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If i it still has a few polyps but smallish , it might just be shedding.

Thanks. I’m still hopeful on the yellow. :)

 

[areefer01]

Everything that consumes something, exudes something. This applies to fish, coral, zooplankton, bacteria, fungus, you name it. These exudates can have a positive, neutral or negative effect on everything else in the tank, even if such exudates are not meant to be toxic, anti predatory, etc. This then changes the populations of things that change the composition of the exudates, changing the effects once again. These populations also change with pH, temperature, trace element variation, food source, predation etc. It's like a soup of uncertainty.

Seems like one plausible answer then in my case. Thank you for the detailed reply. Appreciate you.

Have a great day!

 

[X-37B]

Dry. Prime Reef flakes, TDO chromoboost, Hikari seaweed extreme, nori, and sprung sea veggies.

Fish were not interested in fresh clam. Only the LTA anemone liked it (did not have the magnifica then).

The magnifica is getting frozen scallop.

Frozen food is the heart of my systems.
I would try feeding frozen 2x a day and observe.
I do this even in my 15g and both leathers and all 3 gonipora are growing well.
Same thinking feeds my 150 with 5-6 cubes a day minimum.
I have over 20 bivalve from the rock and have not lost one since startup.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Frozen food is the heart of my systems.
I would try feeding frozen 2x a day and observe.
I do this even in my 15g and both leathers and all 3 gonipora are growing well.
Same thinking feeds my 150 with 5-6 cubes a day minimum.
I have over 20 bivalve from the rock and have not lost one since startup.

Thanks. I cannot do that routinely since I am not there everyday, but I can do it when home. :)