Re-use live rock or not?

choss · Oct 31, 2017

I am setting up a new 96 gallon reef tank. I always quarantine new fish and for this new build I have a 20 gallon frag tank/holding tank to also quarantine new corals (once they have been dipped). My plan is to watch new specimens a minimum of 6-8 weeks before introducing them to the new tank.

So here is my dilemma. I have a 40 gallon cube that has several really nice specimens in it. A hammer coral, a nice monti, and several colonies of Acans. I also have some nice high quality live rock.

The issue is I have had a few (7-8) Aiptasia in this tank. Never an outbreak. But typically I will see one every few months and use Kalk paste on it which seems to resolve the issue. I would very much like to add a few of these encrusted rocks to the new tank (which will be set up with dry rock in all likelihood). Is this a huge risk to include these rock/corals? I will put them through the same quarantine process I mentioned already and my thinking is that most items I acquire from stores, other reefers, and mail order may have also been exposed to pests. Is the fact that I know I had Aiptasia in the 40 gallon tank a non starter or simply better knowledge v. bringing in specimens from other sources? How long would you quarantine a rock or coral to ensure that not Aiptasia have come along for the ride?

Ashish Patel · Oct 31, 2017

IMO Only time I'd avoid using past LR is if you have some coral eating pest. If you void aiptasia you will also void many beneficial things you tank actually needs to stay healthy. If your gonna be like me and add SPS after few months then definitely do a mix of LR and dry rock. Going with all dry rock its a certainty that you will have algae war zone going on with cyano, diatoms, dinos, and coraline battling for nutrients and territory.
I started with 100% dryrock then after 2 months added 20 LR to the sump, then later another 20 LB to the tank. I knew the common pest the LR had on it since I got it from another hobbyist - and started with dry rock to avoid these pest (bristle worms, vermid snails, etc), but it was worth it since the tank took of almost immediately after adding this rock. I have 4 different kinds of sponges, spagette worms, worms I've never seen, 1000+ of fan worms, and tons of coraline. From my observation it accelerated the tanks maturing rate by at least 5 times. I have also come to the conclusion that if possible do not expose LR to air since you want to ensure 100% of the sponges stay alive.. hope this helps.

jda · Oct 31, 2017

You can get aiptasia on the first frag plug that you put in the tank. They can be so small that you don't see them for a long time. Have some consumers since they are going to sneak by - Peppermint shrimp from the Florida Keys and butterflies will eat them. You can kalk the bigger ones and the shrimp will get to the rest of them faster.

choss · Oct 31, 2017

So i have a good amount of live rock that I'd like to re-use. This is my first time though (ever) that I have had even a few aiptasia. My preference would be to use the rock I have, watch it in the holding tank - basically trying to kill off any aiptasia hitch hikers and then add to the new tank. Because the new tank is bigger, I was going to add a few large pieces of Pukani to create two large islands. Then supplement with the best pieces from my current tank.

Ashish Patel · Oct 31, 2017

My tank 7 months ago

choss · Oct 31, 2017

jda said:
You can get aiptasia on the first frag plug that you put in the tank. They can be so small that you don't see them for a long time. Have some consumers since they are going to sneak by - Peppermint shrimp from the Florida Keys and butterflies will eat them. You can kalk the bigger ones and the shrimp will get to the rest of them faster.

so are you saying regardless of the precautions I'm taking, I am likely to get them eventually so have predators in the tank to deal with them in any case? I think I agree with this although I was hoping that by lengthy quarantines of new frags I'd be able to spot trouble in a small manageable environment like the 20 gallon holding tank. Also - it sounds like you would be ok with me using my old rock even though I know I have had an a few pests in that tank to date.

Ashish Patel · Oct 31, 2017

4 months

jda · Oct 31, 2017

choss said:
so are you saying regardless of the precautions I'm taking, I am likely to get them eventually so have predators in the tank to deal with them in any case? I think I agree with this although I was hoping that by lengthy quarantines of new frags I'd be able to spot trouble in a small manageable environment like the 20 gallon holding tank. Also - it sounds like you would be ok with me using my old rock even though I know I have had an a few pests in that tank to date.

Being smart will help. I QT my stuff and after a decade, aips have made it in my tanks. I have peppermints that eat them. I can even see some tiny ones in the cracks and crevices that would get out of control if I got rid of the shrimp.

Hair algae, byropsis, etc. all can come in too and get past QT.

Outside of Mantis Shrimp and coral eating nudibranches, spiders or flatworms, which can all be taken care of in QT, I would reuse the rock.

choss · Oct 31, 2017

Ashish Patel said:
My tank 7 months ago

that is a sweet looking tank by the way!

jda · Oct 31, 2017

Let me give you my standard 2 cents about rock - you likely cannot afford to use dry rock. By some boat rock from fiji for cheap, cure it and have the centerpiece/backbone of your tank ready for decades to come. Most people have not even experienced the downsides of dry rock when they are recommending it to other people, but find some folks with two year old tanks started with dry rock and ask them if they would do it again - some would, but most would not. It is very likely that you will spend more in GFO, water changes and fighting hair algae and nitrate in the first two years than you would spend on real live rock. It gets seeded and cleaned out eventually, but it takes a long time.

If pests are the only reason that people buy dry/dead rock, then they are fools since all of the nasties will get in there anyway with bad husbandry... and none of the pests survive a live rock cure. The infomercials on dry/dead rock leave out all of the negatives like being very dense, bound with terrestrial phosphate (acid dips can help, but are no cure) and take a LONG time to get going with anoxic zones.

[steps down from soap box]

Ashish Patel · Oct 31, 2017

choss said:
so are you saying regardless of the precautions I'm taking, I am likely to get them eventually so have predators in the tank to deal with them in any case? I think I agree with this although I was hoping that by lengthy quarantines of new frags I'd be able to spot trouble in a small manageable environment like the 20 gallon holding tank. Also - it sounds like you would be ok with me using my old rock even though I know I have had an a few pests in that tank to date.

You can get predators if they become a issue or you can just become the predator. I've found they don't really spread fast if you leave them alone - they just grow larger (ive had 5 in my display for 3 months in hard to reach areas). Regardless of your system there is pros and con to going with LR or not. After starting with all dry rock and then adding LR I can honestly say I rather have aiptasia than throw SPS frags into a sterile tank and watch them bleach out or struggle to take off for 5 months. You can easily get aiptasia even if you use all dry rock since they are almost invisible when in low light areas.

dbl · Oct 31, 2017

I would agree with others - if you really like the rock and if it is simply aiptasia you're concerned with, I too would use it. You can fight the aps as described or in other manners. I'd say go for it - at least you know what you have with your own live rock!

Ashish Patel · Oct 31, 2017

choss said:
that is a sweet looking tank by the way!

Thanks!!, The first picture was everything I started the tank with. And 2nd picture I added 20LB of LR to the tank and more in the refugium and just recently a cryptic zone with more LR....

Ashish Patel · Oct 31, 2017

Since I used minimal rock its easy to keep pest under control. Also, the LR will clean your water, dry rock will leech PO to the water and cause algae issues, unless you really cure it properly but I don't have the patients to cure dry rock, does not really make sense to me! lol

Ashish Patel · Oct 31, 2017

The reason why I switched and went LR crazy is few reasons - Reefbum started with dry rock and re-started around the time I setup mine. If he can run into problems with algae then I knew I could. Also, palleta wrote an interesting article about his lack of success using dry rock. Then I used my own judgement and knew that there was no way I could add the beneficial sponges, fan worms, and various bacterias to my system without risking adding some pest. Let me know what you decide,, hope this help!

choss · Oct 31, 2017

Ok so let me play this out a bit further. I have a large Brute holding about 80 lbs of old rock (was sent live from florida many years ago, used in my reefs in the 90s, and then sat dry for 20 years. Its been acid washed and sitting in RO water for 4 months with GFO - no more phosphates to detect so its pretty good dry rock). I was originally planning on using it to build my larger islands and then add 4-5 pieces of choice LR from my 40 cube to ensure the tank seeds properly. I agree - completely sterile dry rock tanks and SPS don't mix well.

My other plan was to send for some live rock from TBS - but gabout 50 lbs. I could use this rock instead of the dry rock to build the bigger islands. TBS rock is pretty much what I am referring to the now dry rock at my disposal. I can deal with Mantis shrimps (had 3 of them in my 90s shipment) and other pests. Based on what you guys have said so far, maybe going this route along with some of my current live rock is the best path towards a really healthy tank. Pests aside.

keddre · Oct 31, 2017

Personally, I would kill the aptasia that you can see. Then I would hire the skills of a peppermint shrimp, to kill babies that resprout. Let the peppermint do his thing for a month or two (maybe while your tank cycles,) then boom! Ideally, you would have killed all the adults and the shrimp would have killed any remaining buds that would sprout up later in life...That's if life ever worked ideally though.

jda · Oct 31, 2017

For me, I don't like Atlantic rock as well as Pacific. It is more dense and does not denitrify as well. It is pretty well free of phosphates, from what I have seen. I just order Fiji Pukani boat rock to the airport for about $3 a pound with air freight - it does need cured, but it is as good as it gets, IMO.

The rock that you have soaking is better than other dry rock since it is phosphate free. It will take a while still to get populated, but if you are patient, it can work. It could take months or a year longer with this rock since it is not bacterially alive.